Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

[Never Scored]

Lists disc with literal SNES rom and game that had an HD remaster on Wii U

You're right, I concede the point.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

The success of the Wii/DS era really broke something in their brains. Even today with the mouse shit on Switch 2. It all goes back to that era.

The Wii was the first time since the SNES that they were serious competitors in the console market. Nintendo has this distressing habit of finding success through some form of novelty and then stubbornly refusing to let it go even when it hurts them. The NES was a world beater in its time but it's pretty awful by modern standards, the SNES genuinely still kicks ass, but the N64 is fucking garbage and so is its library, the Gamecube is okay at best and the best part of that console is its controller, the Wii was a market success but a critical failure and there's nowhere near the same nostalgia for it compared to the 360 and PS3, the WiiU was a total flop, and the Switch isn't a console it's a handheld.

Nintendo's handhelds sold better because no one was really competing with them/the competition was ridiculously shit.

Nintendo's handhelds (with the exception of the Switch) are genuinely good. The entire Gameboy family and the DS family are both good systems with fantastic libraries and even had they had decent competition they probably still would have done well. The Switch and Switch 2 are a slightly different story, however. Mobile gaming has come a long way and is more convenient for the vast majority of people than the Switch family is and the Steam Deck is just plain better as a handheld system and the Switch is only able to hold on due to the blatantly fraudulent practice of exclusive licensing.

 

[Never Scored]

but the N64 is fucking garbage and so is its library

I feel like the N64 is my generation's Atari 2600. It blew my fucking socks off at the time, but when I show the games to my kids, they can't get over how shitty it looks. Just like my dad going, "No, trust me, Chopper Command is the absolute tits."

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I feel like the N64 is my generation's Atari 2600. It blew my fucking socks off at the time, but when I show the games to my kids, they can't get over how shitty the graphics look today.

The graphics don't bother me quite as much as the lackluster hardware performance specs, the single worst controller I have ever personally used to play any video game ever, the completely lackluster library, the unreliable cartridges that while yes they load faster than CDs of the era you also have to fiddlefuck with them to actually get them to work, and the god awful sound.

 

[Dr J]

Nintendo has this distressing habit of finding success through some form of novelty and then stubbornly refusing to let it go even when it hurts them

It's not novelty that hurts them. It's hostility to third parties. NES did well because they were the only game in town. SNES did less well because they had Sega to compete with and Sega were a bit better at accommodating third parties. N64 got dominated by the Playstation because Hiroshi Yamauchi who, remember, never actually played a video game in his life, had the bright idea of making the N64 hard to develop for. His logic being that only the quality developers will want to develop for N64 and all the trash will go someplace else. What actually ended up happening was the quality developers decided the N64 was too hard to develop for and went elsewhere, whereas the shit developers invariably released buggy, broken games for the console. Sony was also much much better at courting third party developers. They didn't tell them what content they could put out for the platform, they didn't limit how many games they could put out, and they gave a lot of developers massive incentive bonus in terms of promotional budget. You know why FFVII is on Playstation and not N64? Because A) Playstation technology allowed for FMVs (and N64 didn't) and B) because Sony offered Squaresoft tons and tons of money in development and promotional budget, whereas Nintendo, Yamauchi basically said that the only people who play with RPGs are loser nerds who live in their parents' basements. Gamecube undersold for similar reasons. A) they were last to the party after PS2, (the failed) Dreamcast and Xbox and B) Nintendo, having embraced discs, went with the inexplicable choice to use their own proprietary mini-discs which meant less storage space than the DVDs that were standard for PS2 and Xbox. This is because Sony own the DVD format.

But Nintendo may end up being the last man standing in the console market because console sales are all about exclusives, and Sony and Microsoft don't really do non-timed exclusives any more, because AAA game development is so prohibitively expensive now that they're forced to port them to PC to recoup costs. Nintendo have always made their own games which means if you want to play Nintendo games you've got to buy a Switch or Switch 2

 

[Weltraumfürst]

I really wouldn't consider it a full remaster. Just a port with a few issues fixed. I think it runs better on Gamecube because Gamecube's better hardware.

I wouldn't even say it ran better, it randomly slowed down every once in a while. There even was a disclaimer telling you to not worry about it.

 

[Never Scored]

the unreliable cartridges that while yes they load faster than CDs of the era you also have to fiddlefuck with them to actually get them to work

Believe it or not, they didn't start doing this until like 2006. I remember having to start blowing in my N64 carts to get them to work like NES games sometime in my 20s. They didn't ship with dust covers and I think most of the carts just have a lot of crud on them now.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Sony and Microsoft don't really do non-timed exclusives any more, because AAA game development is so prohibitively expensive now that they're forced to port them to PC to recoup costs.

GOOD. That's the way the market should have ALWAYS BEEN. Console exclusives have always been gay and retarded and made the market such that the consoles themselves were never directly competing with one another, only their libraries. It's anti-consumer at best and outright fraudulent at worst.

 

[Dr J]

Console exclusives have always been gay and retarded and made the market such that the consoles themselves were never directly competing with one another, only their libraries

Which is the way it should be. Who the fuck cares about the hardware? The best console sellers in practically every console generation have had the most underpowered hardware

It's anti-consumer at best

Only if you can only afford one console. Which is how we get console wars bullshit.

If you can afford more than one console it's nothing but beneficial to consumer. Manufacturers competing to have the best exclusives means they put out more and better games

outright fraudulent at worst

I really don't see how it's fradulent

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I really don't see how it's fradulent

Do you not know what Tying Fraud is? Because that's what exclusive licensing is. And in what possible way would exclusives encourage more and better games to be developed rather than just separating the same number and quality of games between multiple libraries? You fucking retard. You're telling me that if you took any console generation's combined library from every console, made all those games available to every console, that the console's capabilities and reliability wouldn't be the selling point of the console?

I knew you were stupid but I didn't think you were this stupid.

There's no such thing as a "PC War". You want to know why? Because PCs use standardized parts and there aren't exclusive games for any one manufacturer, so they need to compete on technical aspects. Which means that the consumer can make a decision based on capability and price rather than an arbitrary limitation on which games they physically are and are not allowed to play.

 

[Nobunaga]

Name some that you thought were better than the titles I listed. I'd put the Mario Galaxies up there, maybe Wario Land and Metroid 3, but I struggle to think of much in Wii's first party library that wasn't waggle shit

Trauma center, last story, pandora's tower, xenoblade, sonic colors, muramasa, pokepark and battle revolution, rayman, sin and punishment, shadow's tale, fortune street, endless ocean, final fantasy, fire emblem, tatsunoko vs crapcom, fatal frame, dragon quest, monster hunter, zack and wiki, rune factory, captain rainbow, cursed mountain, draw to life.

There were a lot of exclusives that weren't just waggle dogshit but you niggers don't play videogames, just like /v/tards.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Trauma center, last story, pandora's tower, xenoblade, sonic colors, muramasa, pokepark and battle revolution, rayman, sin and punishment, shadow's tale, fortune street, endless ocean, final fantasy, fire emblem, tatsunoko vs crapcom, fatal frame, dragon quest, monster hunter, zack and wiki, rune factory, captain rainbow, cursed mountain, draw to life.

There were a lot of exclusives that weren't just waggle dogshit but you niggers don't play videogames, just like /v/tards.

Okay but where are the good games?

 

[Lone MacReady II]

There were a lot of exclusives that weren't just waggle dogshit but you niggers don't play videogames, just like /v/tards.

Woah, cool it there bud, you're gonna make the nigger in your pfp cry. Also cursed mountain, fatal frame, final fantasy, dragon quest, TvC, monster hunter, pandora, zach and wiki, draw to life, shadow's tale, fortune street, endless ocean, rune factory, and captain rainbow are reaching, like you had to dig all the way into your small intestines to dig those out.

 

[Nobunaga]

Okay but where are the good games?

Not in the zelda thread thats for sure.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Not in the zelda thread thats for sure.

Nor are they in the Nintendo Wii library.

 

[Cnut]

There's good wii games but that doesn't mean they'd be good on different systems. Cf first example from @Nobunaga Trauma Center basically a visual novel but with motion-control segments. This game wouldn't even make sense on other consoles.

There's many unique experiences for Wii and Wii U that just can't be done anywhere else.

Eta just to make it part of the thread, Nintendoland Zelda game is tons of fun and what Crossbow Training wishes it was. (Probably the inspiration.)

 

[Dr J]

Do you not know what Tying Fraud is? Because that's what exclusive licensing is.

No it isn't, at least not in this context. Tying requires coercion and the offering of two legally distinct products. You can, for example, buy a Switch 2 without buying, for example, Donkey Kong Bananza and you can buy Donkey Kong Bananza without buying a Switch 2 (although this would be pointless). Also, because the hardware doesn't work without the software and the software doesn't work without the hardware, the extent to which they are legally distinct is debatable at best.

Tying is like when you have a printer and you force the consumer to only buy the manufacturer's own ink cartridges. Or when you buy a car and the manufacturer states the car can only be serviced by one of their own dealers.

Bottom line, nobody's forcing you to buy a Switch and nobody's forcing you to only buy Nintendo's own Switch exclusives. Hence, not tying. Companies have a right to offer killer apps to incentivise you to buy their products

And in what possible way would exclusives encourage more and better games to be developed rather than just separating the same number and quality of games between multiple libraries?

Firstly who said that developers can only make a certain number of games? Secondly console manufacturers put out more and more exclusives because they want you to buy their product. This is not rocket science.

You're telling me that if you took any console generation's combined library from every console, made all those games available to every console, that the console's capabilities and reliability wouldn't be the selling point of the console?

It would but my point is that it shouldn't be. If every game out there was available for every console out there, it would become a question of who offers the best hardware at the most affordable price, which means that hardware manufacturers would always 'win' the console race, especially if they have access to their own proprietary hardware which is much better than what the competitors put out. Instead of an oligopoly you have a monopoly of whoever can manufacturer the best hardware (probably but not necessarily Microsoft because they're a computing company). And it would mean the games themselves get sidelined because why bother to make better games when they're just going to end up on every system and it's the hardware that's important?

It would be essentially what we have on steroids. Microsoft and Sony aren't video game companies, they're electronics manufacturers who've bought their way into the industry and Microsoft in particular have no concept of what actually makes a good game but they have money to throw around so they figure 'Who cares if our actual product is shit? People will have to buy it because we've bought a ton of good studios'

Also, console prices would go up. Manufacturers currently sell the consoles themselves at a loss because they want you to buy the software. If they can't incentivise you to buy the software i.e. because it's available everywhere, the prices of the hardware would go up because they can no longer sell it at a loss.

I knew you were stupid but I didn't think you were this stupid

Right back at you, buddy

There's no such thing as a "PC War".

There is. First of all between 'PC vs Consoles' with people generally agreeing that PC is better for performance and optimisation whereas consoles have exclusives. Secondly between PC components. AMD vs Intel. NVIDIA vs AMD vs Intel. Windows vs Mac vs Linux or whatever.

Personally I'd rather argue over who has the best games.

 

[Großmann]

I blew my wife’s mind the other day when I showed her that the Fire Temple in OoT had two different tracks between the different iterations of cartridges on the N64. The one I grew up with had the original with the Islamic chant while her copy had the revised version. It was like she learned her childhood was a lie when I played the two cartridges to show her.

On the topic of 90s hardware, I feel weirdly disconnected from most people that talk about the subject online since low framerates of that era don’t really bother me the same way it seems to fuck others up (particularly younger players used to emulation or PC gaming). N64 games for me work fine enough. The only issue these days is playing on any non CRT or not using a higher end signal converter.

 

[Lone MacReady II]

I blew my wife’s mind the other day when I showed her that the Fire Temple in OoT had two different tracks between the different iterations of cartridges on the N64. The one I grew up with had the original with the Islamic chant while her copy had the revised version. It was like she learned her childhood was a lie when I played the two cartridges to show her.

On the topic of 90s hardware, I feel weirdly disconnected from most people that talk about the subject online since low framerates of that era don’t really bother me the same way it seems to fuck others up (particularly younger players used to emulation or PC gaming). N64 games for me work fine enough. The only issue these days is playing on any non CRT or not using a higher end signal converter.

They should bring back Ganon's red blood in the demake (they never will).

They probably wont even add in hidden skills to decrease the dissonance to TP. Which, if you're gonna remake a game, especially like FF7, why not try to make it work better with the games surrounding it? Maybe have hidden shit where skullkid mentions the giants from Majora, a secret ending if you die against Ganon which leads into the downfall timeline (as silly as the timeline branch is imo). Do something deeper. Not only would adding in TP combat (and beefing the standard enemies with more attacks/armored variants etc.) improve OOT's gameplay, but it would set the stage for some really cool shit if they decided to go onto Majora and leaned in to Link becoming skelly man one day and prepping the field for his descendent. But I bet they don't do anything cool like that, I'm thinking it will be weirdly mediocre. Like they'll add in cooking and stamina and weapon breaking for retard reasons, maybe some extra story bits, but ultimately nothing truly interesting in the context of the larger narrative that OOT is clearly apart of.

In one way or another OOT leads into WW, Majora, ALTTP, and TP depending on the outcome, they should play into that, but I fear goytendo has lost that creative spark.

 

[GeorgeFloydFentanylStash]

you also have to fiddlefuck with them to actually get them to work

I never had problems when I had a n64. And I bought used games years after Nintendo stopped production.