What are women's thoughts on the nuclear family?

[missnaptime]

I really think that just executing rapists and murderers, heavily punishing sexual assault and stopping brown migration would course-correct almost the whole trajectory of the male/female division.

Entire debates that dominate the discourse would shift and issues that are only losely tied to those above would suddenly vanish

i agree in that it would change dramatically, however i disagree that it would magically change with the implementation of stricter laws and with stronger immigration laws. unfortunately this is just as much as a white problem as it is any other demographic. paedos and rapists already do a lot to avoid and flout law, and its not well policed in society with convictions anyway, or socially accepted in male circles to call out that behaviour as demonstrably sad and vile. it's like a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy.

one of my very close friends was assaulted, and the men in our circle didn't defend her, siding with the perpetrator - choosing to blame her for her own assault, even when a second victim came forward and he was expelled from university. whatever circumstances a victim is in - be it drunk, be it wearing a short skirt, be it in pajamas at home chilling out with friends - it is never the responsibility of the victim to constantly police their own safety on their capacity to be assaulted as a factor as to whether or not its their fault that they were assaulted.

 

[crazedaze]

it is never the responsibility of the victim to constantly police their own safety on their capacity to be assaulted as a factor as to whether or not its their fault that they were assaulted.

That feel when men advocate for female separatism

 

[missnaptime]

That feel when men advocate for female separatism

woman home grown n all, no added hormones.

 

[Jacknife]

unfortunately this is just as much as a white problem as it is any other demographic

It is not, blacks in the US are two times more likely to rape than whites, "just as much" simply is not true.

Of course rape is still a big problem among whites since even one rape is too much, which is why my proposal of executing rapists does not discriminate between races.

 

[umami's milk]

It is not, blacks in the US are two times more likely to rape than whites, "just as much" simply is not true.

Of course rape is still a big problem among whites since even one rape is too much, which is why my proposal of executing rapists does not discriminate between races.

Russia (and the rest of the slavs for that matter) wouldn't be a rapist's paradise if Operation TND held even half as much water as you propose it will.

Not to mention South Korea that certainly doesn't have a 'brown people' problem and is nevertheless 6 feet deep into the gender divide.

Still, there needs to be a much firmer response to immigrant sexual crimes than "assailant with unknown identity."

 

[Nicholas Gur]

Being financially dependent on a man allows for and perpetuates abuse, that's why family courts favor women. And yet, our best solution to this problem is to throw women into the workforce too?

I believe later waves of feminism were hijacked to work against women's self interest specifically to lure them into the work force so they can double tax the family income. Even with both parents working they will never retain the purchasing power of a single father in the economic golden age of america.

Another issue is the idea of a nuclear family itself being removed from the superior extended family household. This of course is designed to separate families and their ability to pool their collective wealth which is the power system of our society. The prospect of a woman staying home to raise a family is basically impossible without some sort of extended family/village or a man making significantly more than the average 2 income salary.

 

[Meiwaku]

For basically all of human civilization, the nuclear family has not existed. It has been the EXTENDED family if not a tribe of people.

Evolution has made it so Grandmothers had a purpose other than dying in a home. The Grandmother principle was that they lead and made choices and stayed at home with the kids while the mothers and fathers did work... And we were better off for it.

With multiple women doing childcare, work was less tenuous even back in the days before the grocery stores and modern luxuries. You had help. You had a group to bond with and were not lonely if your husband had to leave for long times to herd cattle or whatever. You all did equal work, literally. It was our of nessecity for how hard life was for all people back then.

The nuclear basically put old niggas in homes and made the housewife the burdener of all of this. Back then, parenting and house management was not easier. But at least a guy could earn a living for his entire family working a low skill 9-5. It's not objectively gotten harder for men in this way other than costs or education level for complex jobs....and the solution was to make women work while still doing everything else.

Now, if we had options where grandmother's/grandfathers could take brunts of childcare, this wouldn't be as hard for women as they could leave many domestic tasks to them and then 9-5 it .

Think about it. People are having difficulty retiring because of income issues and only have a pension. Women don't want kids because why have 2 full-time jobs if I can only have one? Men who bitch about wanting a tradwife seldom make tradwife money or are unwilling to work to get there. These three issues can alllll be solved with one solution that keeps family together (and not the polycule type).

Move in your family. Grandparents. Aunties. Cousins. Etc. more people to unburden your wife with tasks means that she will probably want to have kids. More people to unburden men with finances increases the likelihood of motherhood as well.

I fully believe that a lot of the issue on modern women not wanting kids could be solved with going to 3 generational households or moving in other family to divide labor. It also is significantly better for kids to have multiple strong adults in their life to leech wisdom from and have examples from.

P,S- having babies with random men and getting random women pregnant is, and always will be, extremely trashy. We need to stomp out babydaddy/babymama culture. Stop having kids out of wedlock.

 

[Group Project Carrier]

Move in your family. Grandparents. Aunties. Cousins. Etc. more people to unburden your wife with tasks means that she will probably want to have kids. More people to unburden men with finances increases the likelihood of motherhood as well.

I fully believe that a lot of the issue on modern women not wanting kids could be solved with going to 3 generational households or moving in other family to divide labor. It also is significantly better for kids to have multiple strong adults in their life to leech wisdom from and have examples from.

This might seem like the obvious two-birds-one-stone solution, but I think most cultures have moved too far past this model to be able to return to it easily.

Know a place where households like this are still super common? India! Most often the arrangement is that women, after getting married, move in with their husbands and in-laws (their husbands' parents) and stay in the patrilocal household even after having children. Utopically, this means more support with child-rearing and household tasks. But usually, all it means is that the woman becomes enmeshed in her husband's family, becomes distant from her friends and any other aspects of her life that her in-laws don't approve of, and--most importantly--because the sons are worshipped and revered, the responsibility of taking care of the man's parents is generally expected to rest on the woman's shoulders rather than his. This means, by extension, that the woman will be unable to take care of her own parents. So if a woman says up-front that taking care of her parents is something important to her, a lot of men will turn her down.

Now you could say--well, most places are more civilized than Pajeetland, so there's no reason this model shouldn't work in other places. But my point is just that there are a lot of cultural holdovers that could get in the way of this working. And, honestly, it's very few people I've heard say that they can actually tolerate their in-laws, both in civilized and uncivilized countries.

Your point of kids having a lot of adult role models is one that I agree with, but I don't think that necessarily has to be family. Super close-knit communities like this aren't common everywhere, but I could see kids growing up in a small town somewhere having neighbors or local shopkeepers that they see every day and look up to. Lots of places in Lebanon are still like this. Physically sharing a household is what's more likely to disintegrate into a dysfunctional mess, even if there aren't that many dysfunctional people involved, which--let's be real, I don't know how many families are big, happy sitcom arrangements where everyone gets along.

 

[Inco G. Nito]

Could it be that the nuclear family is an idealistic model that is best suited to an efficient, well oiled economy that allows families to adequately live off of one breadwinner who doesn't have to spend every waking moment or even a majority of the day at work? I.E. not the economy we have now? People in the thread have mentioned that nuclear families were not how tribal people survived, and it's true. They had to live more communal lifestyles to survive the less ideal and less forgiving circumstances. Hence why the nuclear family model is faltering given that the circumstances around it aren't nearly as forgiving and developed as they ought to be for it to work properly.

 

[Brenda Holiday]

I thought nuclear family implied not only a strong extended family bond but also a strong community bond. Its pretty normal around here for everyone up and down the street to be related to each other and support one another.

 

[Hubelublub]

normal around here for everyone up and down the street to be related to each other

What part of Pakistan is this?

 

[redcent]

Isiah 13:12

"I will make people more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir"

Maybe we have been cursed by God and are suffering our due punishment for being pretentious little fucks.

 

[Quarter Pounder]

With multiple women doing childcare, work was less tenuous even back in the days before the grocery stores and modern luxuries. You had help.

You can even see this in something like breast milk and the need for formula. Any woman knows that breast milk production can be impaired for many, many reasons. People rightfully are concerned with all the sugary stuff that goes in baby formula, but what other option does a woman in a nuclear family have? In tribal days, there would be a number of other women in her tribal unit to take up breastfeeding for her child if her own supply failed.

Men who bitch about wanting a tradwife seldom make tradwife money or are unwilling to work to get there.

My maternal grandparents had the definitive tradcath marriage. My grandmother was very lucky, and regularly told so by other women, that she had a husband who wasn’t an abusive alcoholic who took his work frustrations out on her and the children. My grandmother spent all day, every day, raising children and looking after the household without any modern appliances or conveniences. My grandfather spent all day, nearly every day of his life, at work. His only hobby or break was having a beer after work, once or twice a week. Any extra money he saved was never spent on his hobbies or a vacation: it went to buying my grandmother jewellery. Buying jewellery for your wife was important life insurance in case the husband died, although many men didn’t bother doing this. Selling it meant the wife could stay afloat and wouldn’t have to remarry to stop herself and the children from falling into poverty and homelessness.

So when those particular men say they want a good tradwife, I look at everything my grandfather did and wonder if they have what it takes to be a good tradhusband? The answer, of course, is no. And even if they did, that particular economic era is well beyond us. Even back then, many wives still had to work. My grandfather, despite clawing his way up into the middle class, still struggled on his own financially without a second income.

 

[A Cat in a Minefield]

My mom was a stay at home mom and I love her for it. I hope that I can one day provide enough to make this a reality for my kids. Or find an arrangement where at least one parent is at home. I would not be the person I am today if she hadn't always been there, looking after everything, cooking and making sure that the household was in top condition.

 

[Generic Name #37]

You might be interested in Mary Harrington's work on this subject. I will edit this if I find a more specific piece to link to but here is one where she talks about the family. She addresses both social and economic factors but does also acknowledge the challenge but importance of finding a good man who actually gives a shit. I'm a bit iffy on some of her stances, but her ideas are definitely thought-provoking imo. What struck me was her critique of the 1950s family model being referred to as "traditional", which many right wing men and tradwife larpers look to as the epitome of the traditional family, even though it is actually very modern. And it was very short-lived because it turns out a woman staying at home alone all day cleaning and looking after kids isn't very fulfilling for most! But when we look further back to a time before the industrial revolution, where men and women had distinct yet cooperative roles, with more balance at home, it starts to make more sense for both sexes. I'm not personally looking to start a family but it frustrates me that modern feminism often neglects mothers and dismisses the family, even though it's what so many are looking for.

But I agree with other commenters that this is largely an economic issue. The couples I know in their 30s can barely afford a small house, and don't seem to feel very optimistic about the future.

I find Harrington’s writings fascinating and thought provoking, even if I don’t fully agree with everything she says.

Western culture also has to stop looking down on motherhood and mothers. They deserve far more respect and reverence than they are currently afforded.

 

[Starscream's Loyalty]

Nuclear family is needed, and motherhood and fatherhood are sacred and need to be revered more. Not the welfare queen/king approach

 

[The Noise]

(disclaimer: im moid)

There's a great bit from CS Lewis in his book Mere Christianity that has always stuck with me. Specifically he talks about Christianity at the government level, and how you shouldn't try to force the general populace to live like Christians, because a lot of people either can't or just don't want to. After all, you wouldn't want a Muslim congressman trying to pass an amendment banning all pork or something similar. This is also a big part of why Prohibition failed; it's not realistic to try and place everyone under the same very high moral standard and attempt to enforce it via human government.

I feel very similarly about the nuclear family. Yes, it would be very nice if everyone COULD live like that, as women are at their happiest when they're mothers in supportive families. But we live in a world with deadbeat dads, abusive/alcoholic parents, etc. It isn't always possible and we shouldn't try to force it into existence via government coercion. MGTOWs push for the abolishment of the 13th amendment and no-fault divorce as if we live in a perfect society where marriages are always happy and never have fatal problems that spring up later but reality isn't like that, especially in the current economic circumstance where a lot of necessities for the nuclear family like groceries and mortgages are unaffordable without two people working full time.

Even some of the biggest man-haters on this subforum would probably admit in private that they'd be open to the idea of being a SAHM if it were actually possible and safe, i.e the man could comfortably be the sole breadwinner and wouldn't randomly troon out after you've had a kid together.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

The nuclear family is 24/7 house slavery for women. It’s unnatural to be so confined by their children, in nature we really would have a “village” of extended family who could take the pressure off each other and avoid small children/toddlers having a sole focus on their mothers for attention and demands.

 

[Luna hates niggers]

A nuclear family is a fairly idealised mindset that definitely would not work for most. I think you have to have a certain amount of finances for it to be feasible but that being said the most ideal partnership should have one person working full time and one person working part time while taking care of the kids.

 

[Blue Flying Leaf]

The proof that it worked in the past is the proof that you are gravely mistaken.