Heirs of the body of Angelina Silva Englisbee vs. Patrick Crusius, Jim Watkins (8chan), Matthew Prince (Cloudflare), Fredrick Brennan, Anons on /pol/

[AnOminous]

They should sue McDonald's because the shooter ate Big Macs. That makes as much sense as the CloudFlare part of the lawsuit. Sue the electric company because 8chan used electricity. And Intel because they made the CPUs in 4chan's servers.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

They should sue McDonald's because the shooter ate Big Macs. That makes as much sense as the CloudFlare part of the lawsuit. Sue the electric company because 8chan used electricity. And Intel because they made the CPUs in 4chan's servers.

Why not just sue humanity itself? He was a human after all.

I don't think they get just how insane this whole thing sounds. as @Piga Dgrifm said, the shooter and whoever supplied the weapons (assuming they weren't just from his collection) at the ones to blame here, not the shooter's family, not Cloudflare, not Jim, and as much as I hate to say this, not TardWheels.

Besides, how the fuck are they even going to get the information from /pol/'s users to begin with? The site's dead, and it's safe to assume most of its users were using VPNs or Tor when browsing it. Plus I'm fairly certain the site took precautions to make sure everyone stayed anonymous unless they decided to use a name.

 

[buymygame]

They should sue McDonald's because the shooter ate Big Macs. That makes as much sense as the CloudFlare part of the lawsuit. Sue the electric company because 8chan used electricity. And Intel because they made the CPUs in 4chan's servers.

Well since Cloudflare is a part of the lawsuit, might as well sue the ISPs for not intercepting the dns requests and modifying the A record to those spooky domain names.

 

[mindlessobserver]

What blows my brains is that they are claiming both 8chan AND Cloudflare are running a cult in the same vein as the Manson family, and that the Crusius family is a joint venture criminal enterprise like the Gambino mafia. This entire pile of shit is an exercise in hyperbole and hysteria. The family is lashing out,for obvious and understandable reasons, but the lawyer responsible for this is either a glory hound or just looking to cash those sweet billable hours. Neither of which is in the best interests of clients who at best have a wrongful death lawsuit.

Its telling that they include a wrongful death cause of action in a single fucking sentence as an "in the alternative". Pages and pages of chest pounding grand standing, and only one sentence spent on the one thing they actually have a solid case for. The really depressing thing is that nobody in the public media will call this shit out. It will just be the berevied family suing 8chan.

 

[Zaryiu]

This doesn't make any sense

 

[Wilhelm Bittrich]

That's all very true except I'm sure he gets SSI and iirc you have to be present in the USA to keep getting the government checks. Think about it, the government isn't going to give out free money to every exceptional individual in the world (not yet anyway), you have to be a citizen and prove you meet the conditions for getting it. He's stupid to think he can do this without an attorney because if he plays fast and loose with the Social Security program and they find out they tend to stop sending checks and make you prove you're entitled to actually get the free money. Sometimes they even make you pay it back if they find you lied about meeting all the requirements.

Social Security Disability is different and in most cases you can live abroad and still get benefits but SSD is based on your earnings and I doubt Frederick's ever had enough earnings in his lifetime to accumulate a decent SSD award.

If he is receiving SSI (Supplemental Security Income) payments he is not eligible to them anymore when leaving the USA for longer than 30 days in a row.
Leaving the USA means living outside the 50 states, the District of Columbia or the Northern Marshall Islands. E.G: Your not eligible for SSI payment while residing in Puerto Rico.
Also for SSI payments age you have to be 65 years or older.
If he is eligible for SSD/SSDI payments (Social Security Disability Insurance) he can get his payment almost in every country where they can send money to.
Exceptions: North Korea, Cuba and iirc Vietnam.

 

[DragoonSierra]

Here's a quote from their lawyer James Scherr in that El Paso Times article:

On that note, I have a question for the law-knowledgeable. Is Fredrick's tentative plan to continue his lawyer-LARP as disastrous as it sounds? Like, is there a chance that Watkins, Cloudflare et al. manage to argue out of the suit, but Fredrick fucks it up and is left holding the bag for it all? Or does it not work that way?

That quote sounds like defamation per se since it seems to imply that the family is involved in criminal behavior similar to what the son did. Its also a statement to the media and not privileged.

It's in general a very bad idea to do any legal stuff without a lawyer. Its not just a question of knowing the law, you also gotta know the proper procedures for filing things and so on. If he want to rep himself he would also have to go in person, attend conferences with opposing and co-counsel, etc. It would probably be just as expensive to just pay a local ambulance chaser to show up in his stead and tell the idiots to fuck off.

That sounds like it would cost even more for transportation considering his medical condition.

I'm pretty sure that's awfully close to slander.

libel. its a newspaper

That's all very true except I'm sure he gets SSI and iirc you have to be present in the USA to keep getting the government checks. Think about it, the government isn't going to give out free money to every exceptional individual in the world (not yet anyway), you have to be a citizen and prove you meet the conditions for getting it. He's stupid to think he can do this without an attorney because if he plays fast and loose with the Social Security program and they find out they tend to stop sending checks and make you prove you're entitled to actually get the free money. Sometimes they even make you pay it back if they find you lied about meeting all the requirements.

Social Security Disability is different and in most cases you can live abroad and still get benefits but SSD is based on your earnings and I doubt Frederick's ever had enough earnings in his lifetime to accumulate a decent SSD award.

You can get SSI even if you live abroad you just have to be in the state for a certain amount of time.

This lawsuit is autistic as shit.

"Defendants WATKINS, PRINCE, BRENNAN, CLOUDFLARE and 8CH are but the alter ego of each other."

Lol no. That's not how ANY of that works. Other than that 8chan might have been an alter ego of Watkins at the time, Watkins, Prince and Brennan are three different actual human beings, not just the same person using different names. This paragraph is absolutely idiotic. Someone who even wrote this is frankly not right in the head.

Cloudflare and 8chan are also clearly distinct. This is just lunacy.

Also they autistically capitalize "hate" like it's a proper noun.

Cloudflare provides a service to 8ch. Imagine. Imagine a catering company catered a Remington event and they get sued because of the dude who shot up Sandy Hook.

And Intel because they made the CPUs in 4chan's servers.

Those are AMDs motherfucker.

 

[Yotsubaaa]

Figured I'd put these Twitter grabs in this thread. They are Defendant Fredrick's commentary on the lawsuit, after all.

So Fredrick had a look at the filing. He also thinks that the filing was rather incompetent.

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“BREAKING: It's the moment we've all been waiting for, the unveiling of the petition! 👀 https://t.co/OgSMS5qzs3 Wow, is it a doozy! I had perhaps thought based on how vague the @elpasotimes was, that perhaps Scherr was opening multiple lawsuits...not all defendants in one.”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/cMsZc)

So Fredrick makes a media statement regarding the lawsuit. In the statement, he reiterates his burning hatred for Jim Watkins by promising to go out of his way to not raise any arguments that would absolve Jim. He also reiterates that his month-long Twitter crusade against 8chan/8kun will continue unabated.
(Oh, for those requiring context: Fredrick has been on a month-long Twitter crusade against 8chan/8kun that will continue unabated. It's been really fun to watch.)

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Given all I write in this Twitter thread, attached is my statement for the media on this lawsuit. I will not be stopping trying to get 8chan, and its successor 8kun, shut down. https://t.co/Pt1rwRNEKP”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/VuqFo)

Perhaps taking inspiration from the Weeb Wars/Vic Mignogna case, someone suggests Fredrick set up a legal fund. Hotwheels here is too proud to take other people's money for his legal defense. However, in alignment with his recent penchant for LARPing as a lawyer, he's not too proud to rip off Nick Rekieta's gig.

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Thank you for the offer, but I don't want to waste anyone's money, especially not yours. The Englisbee case against me is so weak that I'm sure I could argue it myself if it comes to that. I don't need a lawyer as the case against me is so weak. I doubt they'll even serve me...

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/20sFu)

Fredrick also phoned James Scherr, who apparently didn't know Fredrick has nothing to do with Crusius or El Paso(?). (EDIT: Ninja'd by @BEST_MAN_202 in the other thread.)

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Update: Just got off the phone with Mr. James Scherr, the attorney suing @eastdakota, myself, Jim Watkins, and a bunch of others. He sounds like a reasonable guy. He was honest with me, said he didn't know I had quit 8chan and didn't know I had no ownership. 1/2”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/4jJJA)

 

[Canned Bread]

Why wasn't this immediately thrown out of court? The fact that the closest equivalent I can think of something like this is the trial in the Bee Movie says a lot.

 

[Sperghetti]

I can't believe nobody's suggested suing Zoe Quinn yet, since it's pretty much her fault that 8chan gained any popularity in the first place.

 

[Polyboros2]

Nice to see that he's (maybe) not an arrogant lolyer if he drops hotwheels off the case. Still exceptionally ignorant lolyer though.

Hmm, I wonder if there was a way to find out who owns 8chan?



Well, I mean, that's just the first thing that pops up when you Google 8chan before any search result links. He can't be bothered with scrolling to far down that page, Hotwheels' name is the first in the result, he's the most responsible.

 

[Hawaiian Lunchmeat]

Good luck to them I'm sure this will stop all the pain and hatred from happening again by suing prole who have no connection to the shooter.

Why is Frederick being sued when he hasnt been involved with 8 chan for years.

Yaknow he makes a big deal about Jim's pet project now as defunct as 8chan, the Goldwater (aka pisswater) but he was ON their livestream the night Trump was elected wearing a MAGA hat. That was 2016 but I'm pretty sure he did a video debate on their YouTube as well as writing something debunking flat earth as recently as 2018 (late 2017 at the earliest).

As "not connected" as he was he was pretty connected still. He only stepped down in anger after Jim had to fill in for him and noticed how many requests /doll/ and similar boards were getting. He shut those down and Fred quit in anger.

It's funny until a couple months ago I sti had a high opinion of him despite the 180 on 8chan but the more I look into this the squirmier this worm starts looking. I think he really doesn't believe anything. If you're familiar with the movie Zelig that's basically Fred...

Debate topic: “Is the Earth flat?”

Participants: Joe Leonard, web developer, game developer, Youtuber, Baptist, and author of Firmament Wars, a FE game on Steam will argue that it is. Fredrick...

youtu.be

 

[MuuMuu Bunnylips]

libel. its a newspaper

Yes, but this is a text quote; it was originally spoken, so it's slander.

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

Bitch was 83. Already well above expected lifespan.
How much do they think they are gonna get?

This raises an interesting question. If the victim is under the expected lifespan the defendants need to pay the estate (years left to expected lifespan) * (average yearly earnings ).

So, logically, if the victim is over the expected lifespan the estate should pay the people they sue (excess years lived past expected lifespan) * (average yearly earnings ).

Mathematically this seems to be inarguable. Brennan is also penniless and may lose his social security money as a result of this lawsuit. Surely they should compensate him for that loss too?

 

[fat ugly sped]

This raises an interesting question. If the victim is under the expected lifespan the defendants need to pay the estate (years left to expected lifespan) * (average yearly earnings ).

So, logically, if the victim is over the expected lifespan the estate should pay the people they sue (excess years lived past expected lifespan) * (average yearly earnings ).

Mathematically this seems to be inarguable. Brennan is also penniless and may lose his social security money as a result of this lawsuit. Surely they should compensate him for that loss too?

The actuarial tables are built on the basis of expected lifespan of someone who has already survived to age X. So the expected lifespan is always positive.

What might be a better argument is reducing the damages by the expected cost of hospice care that old people eventually need to consume in order to stay alive. So the estate is down whatever for grief counseling and emotional damages, but up like $100k because they don't have to pay for nursing care to keep the heart ticking on a demented COPD patient.

 

[Hawaiian Lunchmeat]

Also, yaknow after hearing they wanted to sue EVERYBODY right down to shooter's family, Fred and Matthew Prince + Cloudflare I was like is this guy retarded? But no, a second glance practically confirms my suspicions. This is a greedy fucking ambula--- errr, hearse chaser who is hoping for a big payday from the family and/or the defendants in this lulziest of lolsuits.

The suit claims that Patrick Crusius (the alleged shooter), Brennan, Watkins, Prince and Cloudflare “publically [sic] and privately encouraged, promoted, incited, encouraged and inspired ‘white racist nationalism', ‘nationalism', ‘Nazism', and ideological racist fervor, as an unincorporated association, to unite together to fight this ‘invasion' of minorities, particularly persons of Hispanic descent.”

also, @Orange Rhymer I'm not so sure he's "penniless" though he may want to appear as such regardless of whether or not he's on SSI/Disability. I'll have to find the actual archived evidence I've got but it's either Twitter or his (now deleted) Medium account where he mentions having enough BTC to live on for several years and that was before moving to the Philippines, so enough to live in wherever he was at the time New York or NJ + cost of living in the PH. Also I know for a fact he likes to be paid in BTC for freelance work. He recently tweeted about offering vichan consulting/support/coding and was saying he'd rather it be in crypto. So yeah, I figure he's hiding money from social security and/or IRS for sure.

 

[Marissa Moira]

They should sue McDonald's because the shooter ate Big Macs. That makes as much sense as the CloudFlare part of the lawsuit. Sue the electric company because 8chan used electricity. And Intel because they made the CPUs in 4chan's servers.

Big Macs fuel racism, if McDonalds denied all these racists food they would have starved and we would be living in utopia right now.

We need purity tests for burgers.

 

[CrunkLord420]

Figured I'd put these Twitter grabs in this thread. They are Defendant Fredrick's commentary on the lawsuit, after all.

So Fredrick had a look at the filing. He also thinks that the filing was rather incompetent.
Wyświetl załącznik 991862

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“BREAKING: It's the moment we've all been waiting for, the unveiling of the petition! 👀 https://t.co/OgSMS5qzs3 Wow, is it a doozy! I had perhaps thought based on how vague the @elpasotimes was, that perhaps Scherr was opening multiple lawsuits...not all defendants in one.”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/cMsZc)

So Fredrick makes a media statement regarding the lawsuit. In the statement, he reiterates his burning hatred for Jim Watkins by promising to go out of his way to not raise any arguments that would absolve Jim. He also reiterates that his month-long Twitter crusade against 8chan/8kun will continue unabated.
(Oh, for those requiring context: Fredrick has been on a month-long Twitter crusade against 8chan/8kun that will continue unabated. It's been really fun to watch.)
Wyświetl załącznik 991863
Wyświetl załącznik 991865

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Given all I write in this Twitter thread, attached is my statement for the media on this lawsuit. I will not be stopping trying to get 8chan, and its successor 8kun, shut down. https://t.co/Pt1rwRNEKP”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/VuqFo)

Perhaps taking inspiration from the Weeb Wars/Vic Mignogna case, someone suggests Fredrick set up a legal fund. Hotwheels here is too proud to take other people's money for his legal defense. However, in alignment with his recent penchant for LARPing as a lawyer, he's not too proud to rip off Nick Rekieta's gig.
Wyświetl załącznik 991870

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Thank you for the offer, but I don't want to waste anyone's money, especially not yours. The Englisbee case against me is so weak that I'm sure I could argue it myself if it comes to that. I don't need a lawyer as the case against me is so weak. I doubt they'll even serve me...

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/20sFu)

Fredrick also phoned James Scherr, who apparently didn't know Fredrick has nothing to do with Crusius or El Paso(?). (EDIT: Ninja'd by @BEST_MAN_202 in the other thread.)
Wyświetl załącznik 991880

Fredrick Brennan 🔣🇵🇭✝ on Twitter

“Update: Just got off the phone with Mr. James Scherr, the attorney suing @eastdakota, myself, Jim Watkins, and a bunch of others. He sounds like a reasonable guy. He was honest with me, said he didn't know I had quit 8chan and didn't know I had no ownership. 1/2”

twitter.com

(https://archive.li/4jJJA)

The lawyer admits he didn't do basic research on two of the primary named parties? Great.

 

[AnOminous]

The lawyer admits he didn't do basic research on two of the primary named parties? Great.

This is shaping up to be a real shitshow.

Figured I'd put these Twitter grabs in this thread. They are Defendant Fredrick's commentary on the lawsuit, after all.

I'm beginning to think he's legit tarded and/or suicidal. Why the fuck would you be attacking the lawyer you're hoping won't serve you in the first place? Maybe shutting the fuck up would be a good idea.

I also like his apparent admission he wasn't really mad about any of the content of 8chan, like he's been claiming, but that his ego was bruised by being turned into "nothing but an employee" and cucked out of ownership of the terrorist pedophile crime den. Yeah that'll look great as a defense.

 

[cans.wav]

Why wasn't this immediately thrown out of court? The fact that the closest equivalent I can think of something like this is the trial in the Bee Movie says a lot.

Usually they'll let you file the initial lawsuit against literally anyone, then throw it out at the first or second hearing for improper service. And since these people aren't gonna be able to serve all posters on 4/8chan, it's not gonna last long.