Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[BScCollateral]

The thing is the writing is so bad the writers have no idea what they've done.

Everyone wants to "save what they love." However, Rose undermined her own side, and the only logical thing for her to do now is desert.

To be honest, that would make for a pretty interesting storyline. I don't know if the movies ever had someone go "screw you guys, I'm going home" and make it stick. But I'm willing to bet that nobody involved in the film realizes Rose is following that path; they probably imagine that she's a strong wamman fighter.

 

[Safir]

The good thing about Star Wars' derivative nature is that you can point to almost everything in it that isn't a noun or proper noun as being ripped off from something else. "Galactic Empire" comes from Asimov's Foundation. Jedi comes from jidai-geki. And Jabba the Hutt of course was inspired by president William Howard Taft.

Plus, if you're the creative type there's plenty of space to make media that's "Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off". Somebody make Sort-Of-KOTOR or Kinda-TIE Fighter if you want to.

The tools to diminish Disney's importance are there. Few have realized and seized them yet, though.

That's because they really aren't, for these reasons:

1. Genres follow trends. A rising tide lifts all boats, and vice versa. The flagship brand succeeding creates knockoffs, and when it sinks, it takes down the industry. It's held true even for things as dependent on fan-created material as tabletop games. When major tabletop games were crumbling under the weight of brand mismanagement and shitty rules, you could just make good rules and say, "hey, you can play D&D with this! you can play Vampire with that!" Neither game ever needed the serial numbers. And yet it never happened commercially.
(The only "exception" is Paizo, who, due to some horrifying mismanagement and corruption at WotC, became the sole designated producer of official D&D content. The chance of this happening to Star Wars is about as high as Chris succeeding both Satomi and Ishihara.)

2. As much as nerds like to pretend they're above such faggy things as plot and characters, they hold together the franchise, not galactic empires and rebellions. Alec Guinness' quiet dignity, Harrison Ford's bravado, Carrie Fisher's huge buns. Factions only matter as they relate to the characters. That fragment of a fan film whose creators got ratfucked the other month (TURN ON ADBLOCK) was so powerful because it made use of existing characters and the viewers' knowledge of them. Vader, Palpatine, even Padme from the godawful prequels, through her relation to Vader. They were piggybacking off the work of the original trilogy's cast, crew, writing, design, special effects and direction. You'd need all that, but the characters are still of utmost importance. You can have the best visual bible on the planet, but if your lead is a discount Spider-Man who has trouble pretending to be interested in a woman, it's a nonstarter.

(2a. Self-sustaining interest in spergy "lore" like ships and weapons is pure economy of scale and only kicks in at the scale of Star Wars.)

3. It's product identity, the copyrightable elements, that bring in investors. Without that, you can at most play a Handsome Smuggler or Bounty Hunter at children's birthday parties. Even fan creators need fan masses to rise from and to consume fan works, and fans are made with advertising money. Without a steady influx of preteen boys and that more intelligent sort of girls who like boys' games and books, there are no fans, no fandom, and no fan content.

 

[Red Hood]

That's because they really aren't, for these reasons:

1. Genres follow trends. A rising tide lifts all boats, and vice versa. The flagship brand succeeding creates knockoffs, and when it sinks, it takes down the industry. It's held true even for things as dependent on fan-created material as tabletop games. When major tabletop games were crumbling under the weight of brand mismanagement and shitty rules, you could just make good rules and say, "hey, you can play D&D with this! you can play Vampire with that!" Neither game ever needed the serial numbers. And yet it never happened commercially.
(The only "exception" is Paizo, who, due to some horrifying mismanagement and corruption at WotC, became the sole designated producer of official D&D content. The chance of this happening to Star Wars is about as high as Chris succeeding both Satomi and Ishihara.)

2. As much as nerds like to pretend they're above such faggy things as plot and characters, they hold together the franchise, not galactic empires and rebellions. Alec Guinness' quiet dignity, Harrison Ford's bravado, Carrie Fisher's huge buns. Factions only matter as they relate to the characters. That fragment of a fan film whose creators got ratfucked the other month (TURN ON ADBLOCK) was so powerful because it made use of existing characters and the viewers' knowledge of them. Vader, Palpatine, even Padme from the godawful prequels, through her relation to Vader. They were piggybacking off the work of the original trilogy's cast, crew, writing, design, special effects and direction. You'd need all that, but the characters are still of utmost importance. You can have the best visual bible on the planet, but if your lead is a discount Spider-Man who has trouble pretending to be interested in a woman, it's a nonstarter.

(2a. Self-sustaining interest in spergy "lore" like ships and weapons is pure economy of scale and only kicks in at the scale of Star Wars.)

3. It's product identity, the copyrightable elements, that bring in investors. Without that, you can at most play a Handsome Smuggler or Bounty Hunter at children's birthday parties. Even fan creators need fan masses to rise from and to consume fan works, and fans are made with advertising money. Without a steady influx of preteen boys and that more intelligent sort of girls who like boys' games and books, there are no fans, no fandom, and no fan content.

I was suggesting someone deliver a new IP that delivers the things Disney doesn't. It may not have the merch and marketing reach that the Mouse has, but there's a vacuum to be filled now that the old school SW fans have been shafted.

Chasing the disgruntled fans of one franchise would be a different approach to marketing, for sure.

 

[Antipathy]

I was suggesting someone deliver a new IP that delivers the things Disney doesn't. It may not have the merch and marketing reach that the Mouse has, but there's a vacuum to be filled now that the old school SW fans have been shafted.

Chasing the disgruntled fans of one franchise would be a different approach to marketing, for sure.

If it takes place in space, you've got three seconds before being fucked by the lawyers of the Mouse

 

[Red Hood]

If it takes place in space, you've got three seconds before being fucked by the lawyers of the Mouse

But I'm talking about delivering things Disney doesn't, like likeable characters with coherent motivations and storytelling rather than merchandise oriented media. Disney wants neither of these things.

 

[Terrorist]

Unpopular Opinion: I thought Hayden Christiansen was pretty good as Anakin. People complained about him being wooden and unlikable, but that was the point. He was supposed to be a poorly socialized petulant dick, and Christiansen played it to a T.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Unpopular Opinion: I thought Hayden Christiansen was pretty good as Anakin. People complained about him being wooden and unlikable, but that was the point. He was supposed to be a poorly socialized petulant dick, and Christiansen played it to a T.

Hayden is excellent in RotS from beginning to end. No complaints.

In AotC, I can buy the explanation that he's intentionally acting stiff in the scenes with Padme because he's a horny and awkward teenager except for the fact that he's still stiff around Obi-Wan, a guy with whom he should be totally comfortable.

I honestly think his stiffness in AotC is unintentional and that both he and George took the criticism of the film to heart for his performance in RotS.

 

[Tookie]

Unpopular Opinion: I thought Hayden Christiansen was pretty good as Anakin. People complained about him being wooden and unlikable, but that was the point. He was supposed to be a poorly socialized petulant dick, and Christiansen played it to a T.

The actors were not the problem with the prequels by any means.

 

[BScCollateral]

The actors were not the problem with the prequels by any means.

The Prequels made Samuel Jackson boring and stiff.

God, could you imagine if this were his first role? I can't imagine that anyone would hire him.

 

[Red Hood]

The actors were not the problem with the prequels by any means.

The actors aren't really the problem with the sequels, either. The leads are charismatic enough (and Oscar Isaac has done some great work in other films). But a bad script and incompetent director will let a movie down.

Lucas is not really a great director, which is one reason he delegated to Kershner and Marquand in the original trilogy, and let Spielberg tackle Indy (the other is that he apparently found the original Star Wars to be fucking exhausting). He does have a pretty great imagination though, or at least a good mind for throwing a bunch of shit together that turns out to (usually) work pretty well.

For the prequels George was surrounded by yes men. You didn't have Harrison Ford saying "You can type this shit, but you can't say it." As a result the only really good performance is Palpy, and to be honest I like him more in Revenge than in ROTJ.

 

[Absolutego]

The actors aren't really the problem with the sequels, either. The leads are charismatic enough (and Oscar Isaac has done some great work in other films). But a bad script and incompetent director will let a movie down.

Lucas is not really a great director, which is one reason he delegated to Kershner and Marquand in the original trilogy, and let Spielberg tackle Indy (the other is that he apparently found the original Star Wars to be fucking exhausting). He does have a pretty great imagination though, or at least a good mind for throwing a bunch of shit together that turns out to (usually) work pretty well.

For the prequels George was surrounded by yes men. You didn't have Harrison Ford saying "You can type this shit, but you can't say it." As a result the only really good performance is Palpy, and to be honest I like him more in Revenge than in ROTJ.

I still think the highlight of the prequels, alongside Palpatine, is McGregor as Obi-Wan. He took both a one-note character in the original trilogy and all the nonsense George gave him for the prequels and made a charismatic and engaging young version of Obi-Wan.

 

[Red Hood]

I still think the highlight of the prequels, alongside Palpatine, is McGregor as Obi-Wan. He took both a one-note character in the original trilogy and all the nonsense George gave him for the prequels and made a charismatic and engaging young version of Obi-Wan.

I guess I can't argue with that. As with Anakin being a maladjusted emo teenager, it's also important to keep in mind that Obi-Wan is a basically a weird incel warrior monk.

 

[DogEatDogFood]

How the fucc is going to look Leia with the archive scenes in Episode IX now that Carrie Fisher is fucking dead? I bet 1000 mediclorians that it's going to be a clusterfuck and it's going to look really awkward. They will have to A) Keep her screentime to a minimum and B) Dub her lines with other actress. Why not just letting the character rest in peace and open the movie with exposition of her being dead?

I still think the highlight of the prequels, alongside Palpatine, is McGregor as Obi-Wan. He took both a one-note character in the original trilogy and all the nonsense George gave him for the prequels and made a charismatic and engaging young version of Obi-Wan.

Pretty much everyone agrees that the Prequels did three things right: Obi-Wan, Palptine and the lightsaber duels. Well, some people dont like the highly coreographic battles.

 

[Red Hood]

How the fucc is going to look Leia with the archive scenes in Episode IX now that Carrie Fisher is fucking dead? I bet 1000 mediclorians that it's going to be a clusterfuck and it's going to look really awkward. They will have to A) Keep her screentime to a minimum and B) Dub her lines with other actress. Why not just letting the character rest in peace and open the movie with exposition of her being dead?

I feel like the best thing they can do with Episode IX is ignore a bunch of what happened in VIII and drop in Lando as much as possible.

 

[BrunoMattei]

How the fucc is going to look Leia with the archive scenes in Episode IX now that Carrie Fisher is fucking dead? I bet 1000 mediclorians that it's going to be a clusterfuck and it's going to look really awkward. They will have to A) Keep her screentime to a minimum and B) Dub her lines with other actress. Why not just letting the character rest in peace and open the movie with exposition of her being dead?


Pretty much everyone agrees that the Prequels did three things right: Obi-Wan, Palptine and the lightsaber duels. Well, some people dont like the highly coreographic battles.

They wrote themselves in a corner. If they kill off Leia, then why the fuck did Ruin Johnson keep Leia alive in part 8? What was the fucking point of the fly through space then if the character ultimately did nothing throughout all 3 movies? Anyone with a brain would look at that and think that the character has to do SOMETHING to justify her presence in these movies. Other than being a glorified cameo of course.

 

[Godzilla@1989]

They wrote themselves in a corner. If they kill off Leia, then why the fuck did Ruin Johnson keep Leia alive in part 8? What was the fucking point of the fly through space then if the character ultimately did nothing throughout all 3 movies? Anyone with a brain would look at that and think that the character has to do SOMETHING to justify her presence in these movies. Other than being a glorified cameo of course.

That’s a sign to note that Disney didn’t carefully plan this out in advance.

 

[Vault Boy]

That’s a sign to note that Disney didn’t carefully plan this out in advance.

Well, she did die relatively early in the production, plenty of time to do some editing to write her out.

But no, Rian had to have his shitty "Gotcha!" moment, and left JJ to deal with that awkward mess with no fucks given.

 

[Andrei Tarkovsky]

They wrote themselves in a corner. If they kill off Leia, then why the fuck did Ruin Johnson keep Leia alive in part 8? What was the fucking point of the fly through space then if the character ultimately did nothing throughout all 3 movies? Anyone with a brain would look at that and think that the character has to do SOMETHING to justify her presence in these movies. Other than being a glorified cameo of course.

It's been said that before Carrie Fisher died, she was penciled in to be the focus of Ep. IX (much like Harrison in VII and Hamill in VIII before her). If I had to bet my bottom dollar, I'd say that it most definitely would've intertwined with Kylo Ren's story (and possible redemption) that's been built up over the previous two installments. I think it's also possible that Space Leia was just the beginning of the newer films showing her in action (then again, that's just me speculating - it just seems they were going in that direction by the looks of it).

Unless Disney, Rian, Kennedy, and co. knew about Carrie dying ahead of time, we also have to take into consideration that same unknowing. Considering the context of the events from TLJ, I think they were screwed no matter what they did after Carrie died. In order to retcon that entire subplot of Leia being shout out into space and the aftermath of her being hospitalized for nearly the entire movie: it would've taken some massive re-shoots and re-writes. They also probably thought that killing Leia by just blowing up the ship and vacuuming her out into space, would have been an ending far too bitter for such a character (I mean, audiences already saw Han get unceremoniously impaled by his own son about 2 movies ago).

Speaking of which, I can't help but think the polarizing reaction to Leia using the force to fly through space was mostly due to the fact that it abruptly happened out-of-the-blue during the second film of this trilogy. If they actually went ahead and retconned Leia being injured, then I personally think it would've been a more touching tribute and a better sendoff if they left that space sequence for Abrams to use in Ep. IX. That's sort of the thing you save for the last film. But, once again, it would've taken some serious reworking in order to do that.

 

[BONE_Buddy]

Ah, Star Wars. A franchise that had, as corny as it is to say it, shaped my life for the past 20 Years. I could publicly lament about the state of the IP for pages, I will spare you all that. Instead I will hold it down to a couple sentences for now:

Disney's handling of the IP makes me consider an opinion that I previously never thought possible. That Star Wars as we know it should go defunct, at least for a while.

 

[Red Hood]

Ah, Star Wars. A franchise that had, as corny as it is to say it, shaped my life for the past 20 Years. I could publicly lament about the state of the IP for pages, I will spare you all that. Instead I will hold it down to a couple sentences for now:

Disney's handling of the IP makes me consider an opinion that I previously never thought possible. That Star Wars as we know it should go defunct, at least for a while.

You sound like me about ten years ago (minus the Disney stuff). I wanted Star Wars to die, or at least go into hibernation.

Even before Disney, I got sick of the amount of merchandise and shit that was getting pushed just to feed off my nostalgia and make a few more shekels. I thought it would wind down and fade out the mainstream eye like it did in the late 80's...and then fucking Disney bought it.