Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

basically meaning "Like always..." So it seems the line is as simple as Noelle feels she herself was always telling Kris what to do growing up.

>Noelle wants control over her life
>This dialogue implies Noelle used to tell Kris/force Kris to do stuff, maybe as a proxy for her own desire for control

The "Kris was raped" theory is getting stronger every day. By Dess, Carol, Noelle, or all of the above? It don't matter, we just know he was raped

 

[Retarded Weeb]

>Noelle wants control over her life
>This dialogue implies Noelle used to tell Kris/force Kris to do stuff, maybe as a proxy for her own desire for control

The "Kris was raped" theory is getting stronger every day. By Dess, Carol, Noelle, or all of the above? It don't matter, we just know he was raped

Really puts one of her weird route lines under a suspicious light.
"You can't even say 'stop' like you used to."

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Really puts one of her weird route lines under a suspicious light.
"You can't even say 'stop' like you used to."

See, what everyone assumed was Noelle being the deflowered one in Chapter 4 was actually Kris getting raped by Thorn Ring Noelle (FREE) the very moment the thing was put in her hand. Kris truly is the Raped no matter the timeline.
A few days in the life of weird route Kris.
>Freeze some darkners with my childhood friend
>Buy a commemorative ring from long nose man
>Comatose that stupid bird that I hate but feel kinda guilty
>Get the shit bullied out of me by long nose man who my childhood friend kills
>Have a sleepover with the dinosaur, try to undo the shit the soul did in the night
>also try to get my mom kidnapped by the Knight
>The Knight kills your TV instead.
>wake up and go see that childhood friend who I hopefully managed to get back to normal.
>that asshole soul puts the thorn ring on her again.
>LV5 Shattered Rose Only one knows the rose's meaning.
>she proceeds to rape me.
>crash out and try to fuck up the soul in retaliation.
>fight the all-destroying embodiment of darkness itself and only barely win
>get home to find that mom is getting boned by that skeleton prick the soul seems to know about
>try my hardest to sleep through the entire day
>get literally forced out of bed to wander through the festival with only Susie and that prick skeleton there
>go to the lake finally
>hope Noelle isn't planning on another rape
>instead she drags me to the depths of hell itself with her gamer skills allowing her to boundary break existence itself.
That's what the little humigger gets for working with the knight.

 

[Usean Allied Forces]

That's what the little humigger gets for working with the knight.

Then again, is it unreasonable to work with the Knight if nearly everyone in Hometown is a faggot?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Then again, is it unreasonable to work with the Knight if nearly everyone in Hometown is a faggot?

He's the chief faggot that let both Noelle and Susie slip through his fingers while he remained on the cuck bench for most of his life.
Kris enjoys the weird route, he's just bitch made about it.

 

[ShitLurker]

Weird Route Noelle going full schizo mode instead of being an "uwu aboos victem" instantly made her one of the best characters in the game and is sort of giving me hope for the normal route Noelle also having an inevitable schizo meltdown. It'd really suck if Toby didn't do anything interesting with her in the Normal Route.
I'd laugh so fucking hard if Rudy dying in the normal route followed by Susie prophecymaxxing at her causes her to just absolutely lose her shit and go full Columbine on Castle Town.
Unfortunately, that'd require Toby to be based.

I hope for this but seems unlikely. I made the mistake of watching speculation videos and it's all "Noelle is super happy with Susie but the player has to be evil and force Kris on her!" and we know the retards saying these things are the same wearing tranny socks while telling Toby he has to wait for that bullet pattern another month cause muh mentals.

So I hope that the real Noelle is weird Noelle and normal Noelle is a dead husk going through the motions, but I expect it will just be lesbian power cures the doe. The only thing saving the core narrative is if the Susie and Noelle thing implodes as it should in any realistic context and Kris was the flames of jealosy alluded to by Gerson. If we are just supposed to take them as a couple at face value, Noelle joins the party and Ralsei leaves because reasons and we get a halfassed reveal plus loredump about the roaring Knight being Dess and Noelle all like "but you can be happy like me cause lesbians" it's done.

 

[Absolute-Despair]

The "Kris was raped" theory is getting stronger every day. By Dess, Carol, Noelle, or all of the above? It don't matter, we just know he was raped

Who is more raped, Kris or Idubbz

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Having your first GF that you started dating yesterday magically cure all of your severe psychological issues that you keep hidden so you don't have a literal psychotic breakdown seems like an incredibly unhealthy message to have in regards to romance, not to mention insanely juvenile dogshit writing.

I don't care how magical you think lesbian relationships are, scissoring does not fix mental illnesses.

If the feelings that Noelle admits to in the weird route are how she actually feels then the last thing she should get into would be an emotionally codependent romantic relationship. Period. Suselle is explicitly that kind of relationship.

The amount of fucking baggage that Noelle would be dumping on Susie is just asking for a nuclear bomb to go off in that relationship really quickly, not to mention that Noelle already had emotional and even physical outburts in regards to being possessive of Susie long before the two of them ever became close, which is one of the single biggest red flags for a controlling abuser that I can think of.

People like to blame everything that happens in Snowgrave on the player but if Noelle can be nudged from "Fahaha mice are scary" to "Murdering Berdly was the most powerful I've ever felt in my entire life and I liked it" in the span of like 10 minutes then she already had severe issues that we at best exploited. The space between Normal Route Noelle and Manson Groupie Noelle is a lot smaller than people are willing to admit.

The fact that people choose to completely ignore all of the less savory undertones AND overtones of Suselle solely because "ZOMG HECKING WHOLSOME LESBEANS!!" as they clap like seals actually makes me depressed.

 

[Dracula]

What are the chances of chapter 6 revealing where Susie actually lives ?

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

What are the chances of chapter 6 revealing where Susie actually lives ?

Hopefully in the graveyard by the time Ch. 6 is done.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

What are the chances of chapter 6 revealing where Susie actually lives ?

We already know where she lives.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

People like to blame everything that happens in Snowgrave on the player but if Noelle can be nudged from "Fahaha mice are scary" to "Murdering Berdly was the most powerful I've ever felt in my entire life and I liked it" in the span of like 10 minutes then she already had severe issues that we at best exploited.

Yeah, it's like these "people" forget that Ralsei, Susie and even Kris can just ignore the player's commands if they choose to do so. In Chapter 5 in the Flowery fight, both of the non-Kris party members just decide to say "no" to the SOUL's fight command.
Characters can also choose to say "no" to being equipped with something, even if that very thing is meant for them to equip. (Flowery Scarf for Ralsei, Ribbons for Susie)
Really, Noelle was the one who saw the fucking torture ring of barbs and said "OK, I will wear this."
Fucking, the spell Snowgrave shows that Noelle can just completely ignore the player's choices herself, only she eventually relents and does it because that was secretly what she wanted the entire fucking time.
Noelle literally murdered somebody who thought she was his friend because somebody said "Do it faggot" at her 7 times.

 

[Coolio55]

Guys, what if there's no deeper meanings and the story is just shit?

People seem to forget that UNDERTALE was an incredibly simple story with only a handful of big unanswered questions.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Noelle literally murdered somebody who thought she was his friend because somebody said "Do it faggot" at her 7 times.

I think the funniest part is that after you freeze Berdly Noelle just... leaves. She just fucks off and leaves your party and the entire rest of the chapter until you summon her again at the very end.

So she could've theoretically not only told Kris to eat shit and refused to cast Snowgrave, she could've just walked away from the encounter entirely. Kris wasn't actually holding Noelle hostage and Berdly wouldn't have attacker her, there was literally nothing stopping her from just going "fuck this" and leaving at any time.

But she didn't.

 

[needforsneed]

Imagine the kind of writing we could have gotten with the 7 flowers could be cool, but likely will be overshadowed by "Susie and Noelle are heckin wholesome cute lesbians":

Another two writing ideas.

First is something that could have given actual weight to the events of Ch.3 instead of practically ignoring the effects Ch.3 and Ch.4 had on Hometown:

We could have overheard several conversations discussing the rumored disappearance of Undyne, and the anxiety that's causing. People could be arguing about who should step in to replace her, complaining that Napstablook is just too meek to be effective. We could have overheard an argument that goes something like "It can't be Asgore, not after what happened all those years ago", "Well why NOT Asgore? He was the best we ever had!", "He may have been, but he's a mess now! No wonder Toriel left him". It would be a good way to show old scars on the town that hadn't fully healed, tease out more Dess lore, impress on the player that the entire town is traumatized by whatever happened to Dess, and show that Kris' reputation is also tarnished by his Dad's messiness and parents' divorce.


Second is relationship drama that likely will not happen in the Ch.6 normal route, as Susie and Noelle are just heckin' wholesome cute 2-dimensional lesbians:

We find out Noelle's dad is either in terminal decline, had a major scare, or is dead, and that Susie and Kris were nowhere to be found during this crisis.

Susie may insist that now is the time to let Noelle in on the secret, and Noelle's reaction may be quite negative: "You... you're telling me while I was having the worst day of my life, you were in here, playing with these... these THINGS?" Could drive a wedge in their early relationship, and put Ralsei's budding independence to a halt and throw him into a bit of a depression, reminding him that he's "not real".

The situation could spiral into Noelle spilling the beans to her mother, having Castle Town be exposed, somehow leading to the roaring when the Lancer Fan Club either gets arrested and can't stop the knight, or maybe having all the residents of Hometown try opening their own fountains. We could then get a nice reunion and see Noelle reconcile with both Susie AND Kris.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

New theory, Deltarune's weird route is actually Toby Fox venting about how he'd wished he'd lived his life.
With this new context, we can see that Berdly represents Andrew Hussie, and Toby believes that he should have simply had his girlfriend at the time murder Andrew Hussie so that she'd become a yandere for him and not cuck him with a random butch bitch.

I am basing this new theory on literally nothing but vibes.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

People seem to forget that UNDERTALE was an incredibly simple story with only a handful of big unanswered questions.

most of those big unanswered questions transferred over to deltarune doebeit so obviously people are hoping for an answer this time.

 

[invisibult plus+]

Wyświetl załącznik 9237800

Remember, no monster.

 

[Cryogonal2]

Really puts one of her weird route lines under a suspicious light.
"You can't even say 'stop' like you used to."

i could not stop laughing at that line because i could just see the /v/ posts surrounding it

Having your first GF that you started dating yesterday magically cure all of your severe psychological issues that you keep hidden so you don't have a literal psychotic breakdown seems like an incredibly unhealthy message to have in regards to romance, not to mention insanely juvenile dogshit writing.

I don't care how magical you think lesbian relationships are, scissoring does not fix mental illnesses.

If the feelings that Noelle admits to in the weird route are how she actually feels then the last thing she should get into would be an emotionally codependent romantic relationship. Period. Suselle is explicitly that kind of relationship.

The amount of fucking baggage that Noelle would be dumping on Susie is just asking for a nuclear bomb to go off in that relationship really quickly, not to mention that Noelle already had emotional and even physical outburts in regards to being possessive of Susie long before the two of them ever became close, which is one of the single biggest red flags for a controlling abuser that I can think of.

People like to blame everything that happens in Snowgrave on the player but if Noelle can be nudged from "Fahaha mice are scary" to "Murdering Berdly was the most powerful I've ever felt in my entire life and I liked it" in the span of like 10 minutes then she already had severe issues that we at best exploited. The space between Normal Route Noelle and Manson Groupie Noelle is a lot smaller than people are willing to admit.

The fact that people choose to completely ignore all of the less savory undertones AND overtones of Suselle solely because "ZOMG HECKING WHOLSOME LESBEANS!!" as they clap like seals actually makes me depressed.

It's hard having media literacy...

 

[Retarded Weeb]

New theory, Deltarune's weird route is actually Toby Fox venting about how he'd wished he'd lived his life.
With this new context, we can see that Berdly represents Andrew Hussie, and Toby believes that he should have simply had his girlfriend at the time murder Andrew Hussie so that she'd become a yandere for him and not cuck him with a random butch bitch.

I am basing this new theory on literally nothing but vibes.

But I thought Noelle was meant to be Andrew Hussie?