Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Why the sudden skill check in the chapter that's inbetween the other chapters that have an egg and crystal?

The whole sequence of events for the eggs is definitely something done to ensure that everyone going after the eggs is doing so very intentionally, but yeah like you said it's very strange how it changes the trend of eggs. If the egg thing is meant to be exclusionary, why only in chapter 3?

The knight thing is weird too but I'm not sure if thats intentionally weird or just circumstantial. Like the knight is a required encounter, and Gerson in chapter 4 is probably the easiest secret boss to encounter and also necessary for the story to work, so is there some thematic tie there too or not really? What about Mew Mew being out of nowhere? is there some hidden meaning or something that ties it all together, or is it just the natural variation in the secret bosses?

You already said it. The Chosen One has to be damaged.

Berdly is not the chosen one, he is something much greater


Noelle is the chosen one. The rapist and the rapee in one. Only she can save the West (with the aid of Berdly)

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

The thorn ring is an item that allows you to become more in touch with your inner desires, even the ugly ones you never wanted to accept.

it is probably because of the trance down effect. it awakens the user from npc like trance state, allowing you to actually perceive your surroundings and break off the set path. the user becomes the true version of themselves. i have no idea what it could imply for the twistedswd, how exactly it is going to work in that case? how kris will taste that sweet, sweet freedom sauce?

ERAM implies that Kris is searching for them, but we can wave that away as ERAM not knowing that it's us searching for them

two loud incorrect buzzers. eram knows about our presence "Knowing you could say it wasn't really you", and he tells that kris is searching for the shadow crystals even if you don't collect any in previous chapers.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

and he tells that kris is searching for the shadow crystals even if you don't collect any in previous chapers.

I mean the only reason you'd even be fighting him is if you're trying to get the mantle and get the crystal from the Knight, right?

 

[Cryogonal2]

is there some thematic tie there too or not really?

All the secret bosses had shards of broken dreams with them. Jevil had someone's dream, Spamton found Mettaton's dream in the abandoned machine, the Knight's sword seems to be made from the fucking crystals, and Gerson found one in his drawer, suspecting that someone planted it there Maybe it came from Alvin putting his own dreams away?. Mad Mew Mew probably had the crystal from her Lightner's dream or it was the crystal Asgore had. One way or another, they all stumbled across a broken dream.

Knowing you could say it wasn't really you

On the weird route, but regardless you're right.

 

[Sunset Ethernia]

the children followed the butcher

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

it is probably because of the trance down effect. it awakens the user from npc like trance state

It's interesting that Spamton had it, then, because presumably it couldn't do much to help him since he still couldn't "go to heaven", and him breaking off the path was already facilitated by the shadow crystals/mike phonecall. I wonder if Gaster gave it to Spamton knowing he could give it to Noelle

 

[Schpoots]

ive cracked the code

 

[JustAnotherRetardedLurker]

Spoiler: Shipping Discourse from the 'gram

(I didn't even bother screenshotting the second half of that reply. I don't remember what it said, but I do remember it was fucking stupid)








"They're made for eachother"

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

The DR Reddit sucking off Berdly for being a HECKING ALLY at the festival and lecturing Kris about how they need to respecc that Noelle and Susie are together now and how awesome and amazing they are together after he was a hundred times more guilty of being an inconsiderate obnoxious asshole to them than Kris ever was until two days ago is one of the small parts of comedy that makes life worth living.

These people are so shallow it's insane.

It's like a bank robber lecturing someone over how harmful stealing is 5 minutes after he had a change of heart and gave the money back and a crowd of retards start cheering about how considerate he is.

 

[Best Dio Dindu Nuffin]

The last prophecy. The story's end.

And then. When all hope is lost for the tale

The final tragedy unveils.

To save the worlds, there is only one way.

Spoiler: The only way

The girl must pray the gay away.

Only then, will the worlds be saved.

 

[Cryogonal2]

Berdly for being a HECKING ALLY at the festival and lecturing Kris about how they need to respecc that Noelle and Susie are together now

they're not only taking a joke at face value, but also ignoring the fact that he only supports it because he imagines self inserting himself into their relationship.

 

[Hideous K]

Wyświetl załącznik 9227760

Old meme but still relevant, it's beats supposedly drowning to death with crazy.

 

[Cave Fisher]

theorycrafting the prophecy is literal gambling given that the prophecy is a nothing burger as of now
Known facts about it:
1. There are 3 heroes (vessel + girl monster + prince) and a girl.
2. Dark foutains are not good
3. One thing has to be done to save the world, it pisses Susie off and Ralsei prays for her.
4. Ralsei gatekeeps us from knowing about it.
If Toby is a hack, the prophecy says some "the girl must sacrifice herself" and then Susie and Noelle will have to choose which one has to be the sacrifice, but we have so little to work with anything is possible here

Theorycrafting in general has been in such a bad state this release due to chapter 5 not really giving us anything wider that theorists made the knight a steven universe fusion out of pure boredom, and basically anything you can say about the le prophecy is a schrodinger's theory that's both right and wrong until a chapter releases where Ralsei actually explains something.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Most theories have just kind of spun their wheels with 5.

Outside of Dess and Asriel being romantically involved (which yeah, no shit) nothing was really confirmed or denied.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Actually scratch that, funnily enough I think the only "big" theory that was even close to being confirmed is that Kris actually likes Susie, which a lot of people were (and still are) in denial about despite it being hinted at repeatedly.

I didn't even register that it was still just le theory with how long ago I just kind of assumed it was the case.

Considering the events of the chapter it was also the most painful and mean-spirited one to confirm.

 

[Starman John]

Considering the events of the chapter it was also the most painful and mean-spirited one to confirm.

I know it's been said before in this thread, but it's still weird how much of the chapter feels almost spiteful towards some of the fans in some of the stuff that happens. Do you miss Black Ralsei and his hat? well congraturatieons! He actually doesn't like it and we will guilt trip you because of that. And there's the Suselle as constantly mentioned, Asgore Vagueposting, and so on.

Most theories have just kind of spun their wheels with 5.

Outside of Dess and Asriel being romantically involved (which yeah, no shit) nothing was really confirmed or denied.

And this is part of why the chapter was a bit of a letdown to me. I wasn't expecting HUGE revelations, but i was expecting something new, that brought more to ponder on what we already have of the characters. And the lack of any of that makes the story feel even more weightless when it comes to it's stakes. Again, what has been said about stuff like the antagonists King, Queen and Tenna being "le misunderstood", and even how Berdly being too a-ok with Susie going out with Noelle and Kris thirdwheeling, despite declaring interest on going with all of them, and etc. It's part of why i really like the Evil Susie theory as it brings a bigger conflict to the story that isn't just "we gotta stop the Knight!".

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I know it's been said before in this thread, but it's still weird how much of the chapter feels almost spiteful towards some of the fans in some of the stuff that happens. Do you miss Black Ralsei and his hat? well congraturatieons! He actually doesn't like it and we will guilt trip you because of that. And there's the Suselle as constantly mentioned, Asgore Vagueposting, and so on.

I could tolerate the Mike jokes mainly because of the fuckin decade of unhinged Undertale theorycrafting that Toby absolutely would be aware of, it came of as more light ribbing than an actual fuck you to fans.

The stuff in 5 just felt like Toby was genuinely, unironically pissy with his fanbase over completely inconsequential shit like people preferring Ralsei's CH1 design or completely reasonable shit like wanting more lore around what happened with Asgore and Dess, and is being as catty as possible in expressing it.

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Can we compile all the proof/foreshadowing that Susie x Noelle will fail? Off the top of my head,

PROOF:
>Susie not being able to define love, only thinks of it as when someone says they like you first
>Item dialogue of Susie thinking Noelle would like the deer drink when Noelle actually hates it
>Susie can't actually recall any notable moment between them, only "her heartbeat"
>Susie picks a rose based on a totally superficial moment
>Susie says "whatever you mean by you like me, I like you too" which is a super disingenuous thing to say. It only works if Susie doesn't really understand love and just likes Noelle cuz Noelle likes her
SUPPLEMENTARY STUFF/ARGUMENTS:
>Noelle likes Susie because she's crazy and a masochist instead of having a particular affection for her
>Susie likes Noelle for the affection she gets from her
>Neither can give each other what they need. This is dubious since you could argue Susie is "safe rebellion' and Noelle is "someone who loves Susie" but something like that, but even then Susie doesn't really help Noelle with her issues, she just does everything for her, plus Noelle doesn't actually like Susie for who she is, she just projects her desires onto Susie.

 

[Slumbie]

Butcher Believers, where you at?