Should lolicon / shotacon be considered drawn child pornography?

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

To those who want lolicon art banned, are you willing to go through the trouble of enforcing it?
Would YOU pay someone to try and catch people looking at fictional children, or drawing it?

You don't need to waste resources trying to catch people, not even those drawing it, in order for a ban to be effective. Just make it illegal to host it online and there goes over 98% of it, and then ban imports on physical art and there goes 1%. Then you're just left with a tiny fraction which is homegrown and distributed locally.

The problem is less that it exists at all and more that it is prolific. If a few hardcore weebs are drawing it themselves and exchanging it amongst themselves in private groups then it's not worth even worrying about, mission accomplished.

I want to keep children safe and keep pedos away from them. I just fail to see how banning loli will end up doing anything but being a waste of time, effort, and resources while just giving authorities precedent to arrest someone on the grounds of something that is effectively a victimless thought crime.

The above scenario wastes no significant time, effort, or resources. You don't have to kick doors down and throw people in prison over cartoons, you can just eliminate access to the bulk of material. Major porn and import sites will simply stop serving the stuff with just minor prompting.

i don't give a shit about how it was made, if it looks realistic enough to fool the average person at a quick glance then it also means that the feds who are supposed to deal with child porn now have to waste resources that could have gone into getting rid of authentic child porn

Plus, practicality aside, it's just especially egregious material which absolutely shouldn't be tolerated on a moral level.

 

[Spud]

Just make it illegal to host it online

How would you implement this in such a way that websites like this don't fall foul of that law? I get why you want this but it will not work in your favour in the long run.

 

[demicolon]

How would you implement this in such a way that websites like this don't fall foul of that law?

You don't. During the Section 230 kerfluffle, the owner of this very site explained time and time again that the farms will go offline the very moment the amendment to 230 passes and you still had idiots arguing that it's worth it for sticking it to the libs and Twitter.

 

[Bargain Bin Laden]

Where would we be without lolicon? Think about it, bigots.

 

[Sugriva]

It very much is drawn child pornography. Anyone trying to say otherwise is an idiot. However, I don't think it should be banned. Any kind of law prohibiting what's allowed to be drawn on a piece of paper is ultimately not good for society.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

How would you implement this in such a way that websites like this don't fall foul of that law? I get why you want this but it will not work in your favour in the long run.

Enforcing obscenity laws that already exist should be sufficient.

 

[No. 7 cat]

If something has the same intent as CP, that is, arousing a pedalo with pedalo stuff, it is surely CP, even cartoonish or other elements admit a degree of ambiguity or allow evasion as CP.

 

[Leaded Gasoline]

how do you plan on stopping pedophiles from using their computers to train models off csam

you can't. but that does not mean that it should be allowed to be freely distributed, simply treating it as if it were authentic child porn is the right thing to do

more that it is prolific

where? paheal rule34? lolicon is shunned everywhere and mainstream porn sites ban it outright

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

where? paheal rule34? lolicon is shunned everywhere and mainstream porn sites ban it

I guarantee I could Google any character in existence and find endless hentai of them, so I don't know why you're acting like it's hard to find. It's literally in Google images.

 

[Leaded Gasoline]

I guarantee I could Google any character in existence and find endless hentai of them, so I don't know why you're acting like it's hard to find. It's literally in Google images.

because search engines already deindex lolicon sites


you could probably get common loli character names added to the same blacklist as "loli" if you get a bunch of people to complain about it hard enough

Just make it illegal to host it online and there goes over 98% of it

piracy sites still exist and they are messing with hundreds of companies according to the law
there is no way that a ban on loli would ever be enforced unless someone had a personal vendetta to settle

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

because search engines already deindex lolicon sites
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you could probably get common loli character names added to the same blacklist as "loli" if you get a bunch of people to complain about it hard enough

Those hentai sites in your screenshot probably host it even if that particular Google search doesn't seem to yield any specific results for it in particular, and again, if you switched over to the image search with that exact criteria you'd get what you entered into the search bar.

piracy sites still exist and they are messing with hundreds of companies according to the law

there is no way that a ban on loli would ever be enforced unless someone had a personal vendetta to settle

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Haha this is one area that I know expressly more than you about. In the numerous psychology classes I took due to my concentration in my undergrad studies. Psychologists DID ascribe pedophilic labels to individuals who drew a fuckton of child porn.

Even assuming you're not full of shit, "pedophilic labels" can mean a lot of fucking things. A person can have "sociopathic tendencies" and not be a full on clinical sociopath.

The pedophilic nigger saying that I don't know how to speak Japanese because he has no rational argument against me.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? My statement had nothing to do with your ability to speak Japanese. I said "You don't speak FOR all Japanese." Seriously, a guy who claims to have taken college level psychology classes can't read grade school English. And no, claiming English is not your first language is not an excuse. Its clear that you can speak it well enough to hold conversations in this thread.

CSAM covers more than just child porn, you retard.

Seems all you can do is start calling people names, my friend.

If I were talking about chidol, I would've fucking said chidol. Address what I was actually talking about, faggot.

I don't know what you're talking about dude. The purpose of my statement was to clarify what you are talking about. Clearly you can't put two braincells together to do more than call people names on the internet, as if that means anything to me.

noring the fact that men will jerk off to real humans dressing up as the object of their fictitious desire. Meaning that their attraction to fictitious characters aren't solidified only in 2d. They want it to be real and will jerk off to real women who dress up as the character they like. Meaning that the same can and does happen with loli character.

And grown ass women can dress as loli characters for the purposes of sexual roleplay. What's the point? As long as its not someone dressing up a child as a loli character (or non-loli character for that matter) for sex, who cares? Its costume play, a completely separate and recognized fetish. In any case, all this talk about cosplay is completely irrelevant to this thread.

The nigger didn't listen to anything I fucking said about how erotic sexualized images of real children are still allowed in JApan. That, or he's intentionally trying to avoid the topic.

Nobody is avoiding the topic. You are just being intentionally obtuse about it and confrontational for no reason. As I said, full on child porn is illegal in Japan. Chidol is still legal, because it isn't pornographic. If you are talking about something else, then make it clear what exactly you are speaking of or give an actual example. Or don't. All this talk about real children is besides the point of this thread.

No nigger, this type of video is STILL LEGAL

So, then this particular example is still up then? You can point to it? I mean, I might be predisposed to believe that's still a thing. Everyone still remembers that Balenciaga controversy from a few months ago where they literally had little girls dressing up in bondage and BDSM gear. Though, I think having kids holding dildoes is far past even that line, and I can't take it on faith exactly that something like that is legal under Japanese law.

Everyone who's talked to you knows that you jerk off to loli/shota. No one who isn't into it would defend it this fervently. Kill yourself, pedophile.

Alright dude, I'm just going to reiterate this. You need to take a step back, leave the thread, and get some fucking air. You are WAY too emotionally invested in this shit. Fucking calm the fuck down. Throwing around random fucking insults and accusations on the internet doesn't making you a big man, it makes you pathetic and an idiot.

 

[Misao Hyper]

How many Yugioh video game fans have ZERO interest in real Yugioh cards?

Me, bought 3 games own zero cards, I have also bought like 5 madden games and literally never watched a full non super bowl game in my life. I owned 2 hockey games and have never seen an NHL game period ever.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Me, bought 3 games own zero cards, I have also bought like 5 madden games and literally never watched a full non super bowl game in my life. I owned 2 hockey games and have never seen an NHL game period ever.

But you probably like the way real Yugioh cards look, the art is identical, at least in newer games. If you think Dark Magician looks cool in the game you'll think he looks cool on a physical card too.

 

[Needlemouse]

No, it's gross, and I'm wary of the people who like it, but wanting to draw/see Diego Marquez's cock and wanting to harm a real child are two completely different things.
There's the very real, very relevant fact that in drawing/writing/viewing fictional content, you can crumple up the paper (either metaphorically or actually depending on if you print it out, ya weirdo) and throw it away. You can undo whatever actions occurred in the magical fantasy play land because it didn't actually happen.
There's a disturbingly large amount of ""fandom antis"" who take the role of 'safe adult' just to use their position to groom actual minors. Drawing a line and saying 'gross people like X, normal people don't' only gives them more undeserved credibility to do this.
Filth on the internet and how easy it is for kids to come across it (EPI, etc) are real, serious problems, but muddying fictional actions and real ones only complicates the issue. The problem isn't that someone drew something gross and weird, the problem is if someone shows it to a kid.

Putting a focus on the ages of the subjects in a fictional work also creates the bizzaro hellworld I currently live in where I see minors believing that it's okay that an adult showed them porn, because the characters involved were adults.
(I'd accept a mercy killing at this point, tee bee eich.)

 

[Misao Hyper]

But you probably like the way real Yugioh cards look, the art is identical, at least in newer games. If you think Dark Magician looks cool in the game you'll think he looks cool on a physical card too.

Oh yeah I'd fuck Dark Magician if that's what you're asking.

 

[Kiwisee]

Lookie here, a Lolicon who forgot that he wasn’t on his discord server full of minors decided that it was a good idea to talk about why he’s justified in his attraction to minors as young as 11 and admits to liking CP.


What was that about Lolicon being unappealing to actual pedophiles? I call bullshit.

I’ve seen these groomers behave this way in publicly, which isn’t a surprise considering that they’ve been enabled by contrarians for years at this point. So glad this thread exists so I can document this shit.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

You don't need to waste resources trying to catch people, not even those drawing it, in order for a ban to be effective. Just make it illegal to host it online and there goes over 98% of it, and then ban imports on physical art and there goes 1%. Then you're just left with a tiny fraction which is homegrown and distributed locally.

The problem is less that it exists at all and more that it is prolific. If a few hardcore weebs are drawing it themselves and exchanging it amongst themselves in private groups then it's not worth even worrying about, mission accomplished.

It sounds like you don't want to protect children then, you just don't want to see icky loli/shota art online because you find it repulsive.
If you're just making it harder to find, it won't be. Pedos would already have Tor and (I assume) other existing vectors for obtaining CSAM away the clearnet, it's just a matter of wanting it bad enough to seek it out.

And if you're not prosecuting people for being in possession of it, then what's the point of banning it? It's basically an admission that it's just "icky bad art" and there's no actual grounds for banning it.

You want an example of a ban on "problematic" art? Look at Australia. Shining example of how good censorship is for the population there, since they have laws banning possession of loli/shota material as if it were CSAM. Guess what? You technically just have to explicitly say the character is over 18, then it's fine, though!

And again, if you force websites to stop hosting shota/loli material, you'd just have a bunch of civil court cases with worthless arguments on whether the content involved is actually illegal or not. With art, it's not clear-cut like CSAM. I don't trust the government to make proper criteria for classifying loli/shota without making it too vague, since feds just LOVE to make really vague laws about the internet to push as much control as possible.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

It sounds like you don't want to protect children then, you just don't want to see icky loli/shota art online because you find it repulsive.

I can both oppose it for protection and since it's immoral. In fact, those are the same thing; it's immoral to allow the depiction of sexualized fictional minors because it may cultivate an unhealthy sexual appetite in its viewers, charitably assuming it's not preexisting. Thus, banning it is protecting kids.

If you're just making it harder to find, it won't be.

It will be. Why do you think they work so hard to take KiwiFarms off clearnet? They'd like it gone entirely but rejoice when it's stuck on Tor, precisely because it's less accessible. Accessibility matters, bans aren't necessarily about stopping something entirely, it's a success if you kneecap its proliferation and normalization.

And if you're not prosecuting people for being in possession of it, then what's the point of banning it?

It's just not important to do so since it is technically a victimless crime, though I suppose I have no qualms with tacking on charges if it's part of a collection with real shit.

The point, as I indicated, is preventative, you don't want sick desires cultivating or becoming normalized. It's not about punishing wrongthink so much as not letting people fester in degeneracy and potentially become predators. A ban would be good for society and good for the viewers soul.

Look at Australia. Shining example of how good censorship is for the population there, since they have laws banning possession of loli/shota material as if it were CSAM. Guess what? You technically just have to explicitly say the character is over 18, then it's fine, though!

Have a judge determine things (not ideal but that's how our system works, we have judges for such purposes). If it's a character with a child's anatomy, dressed in a schoolgirl uniform, behaving like a child then it's a clear-cut case, for example, and any reasonable person would conclude that the canonical age is irrelevant to what's being depicted.

Granted, that's just the easiest example to come down on, it would take more deliberation for increasingly ambiguous cases, but you get the point.

I don't trust the government to make proper criteria for classifying loli/shota without making it too vague, since feds just LOVE to make really vague laws about the internet to push as much control as possible.

"I don't trust the government so therefore nothing should be banned" doesn't fly. Bad things need to be banned, there will always be the risk of governmental overreach, that's just how it is. But lots of things are banned and it's just fine, like plagiarism or a hundred other random examples.

 

[Needlemouse]

Lookie here, a Lolicon who forgot that he wasn’t on his discord server full of minors decided that it was a good idea to talk about why he’s justified in his attraction to minors as young as 11 and admits to liking CP.
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What was that about Lolicon being unappealing to actual pedophiles? I call bullshit.

I’ve seen these groomers behave this way in publicly, which isn’t a surprise considering that they’ve been enabled by contrarians for years at this point. So glad this thread exists so I can document this shit.

Yeah but the easier it is for these people to out themselves the better.
Treat it as a communal honeypot. Or something. I am not good with words, something-something-cardboard-box-propped-up-on-a-stick.