Marathon 2025 - Bungie's new AAAA Extraction shooter

[moocow]

they at it's core are still broken because of the inherent risk of the novelty wearing off and unlike a skinner box which dropped food, you know, shit needed for survival, this is some electronic shite that you don't need and might be drawn in by another that fixes the little pet peeves you had with the previous skinner box for that sweet dopamine hit, until sunken cost fallacy hits and them people go back to their favorite skinner box.

I dropped Deep Rock Galactic after a single round of utter bullshit where things went well right up until the time came to extract, and it felt like every fucking mechanic in the game conspired to impede my return to the pickup location, and despite it being a seemingly easy return, I didn't make it, and died on site after the escape vehicle left without me. It was a solo match (I didn't play DRG with others; I just played solo with that drone companion thing), and even that fucking drone thing choked up and failed to lead me back.

The very mild dopamine hit from finishing a few missions and getting an upgrade on some random thing didn't come anywhere near the feeling of "oh that's fucking bullshit" when the game pulled that shit, and I dropped it like a hot potato. I wonder if they see much of that, or if they even can, or whether they actually care. New player, plays a few rounds, fails one, then quits and never comes back.

lol if they do give a shit about such things, they never told me. Naturally I'd played too long to get a refund, too, but whatever. I don't exactly feel "ripped off," as the game wasn't "defective" in my view, just not for me, but yeah, that skinner box sure doesn't spring the trap quite like they want it to these days.

 

[Orkeosaurus]

My biggest problem with this fucking game is how the quests force you to run around loud as fuck to like 3 different POIs in a single match trying to do them while some asshole who most certainly has already finished all of the quests is inevitably crouched waiting for you. It's amazing that Bungie hitched its horse to such an unfun genre.

Also it's my first looter extraction shooter. Is it normal for gear to be so important in this genre? I feel like if you have a green shield you have almost no chance against a purple shield.

 

[Zenos Yae Viator]

Also it's my first looter extraction shooter. Is it normal for gear to be so important in this genre?

sorta no, in Arc the better shields might protect you from a singular bullet more from a full auto/fast shooting gun, while this "matters" what matters more is good play, in Arc grey guns can win the day easily, they just have severe drawbacks, like Ferro's reload time or stitchers general innaccuracy without decent weapon mods, however in terms of damage they do about the same damage per bullet as higher class versions, the Ferro hits for exactly the same as the revolver version of it, the Anvil does, per bullet, however the Ferro is break action, so in "peek shoot" they are identical, you just are peeking less often between shots.

This is to say Marathon is the opposite, better guns are just better, better shields are way better, its designed for Streamers to stomp.. well YOU.

 

[Bowiotronic]

"barely boimped into cheaters or teamers or rats or exit campers in 1k fucking hours" truly it's the gift that keeps on giving

 

[Oliver Onions]

Some key differences with Borderlands compared to other "looter shooters":

The problem with most of your points is they go both ways: 99% of what you pick up in Borderlands is worthless (or worse still you get the drop you actually want with one bad stat roll that makes it useless) and Gearbox across 6 games have never bothered to address their dogshit UI so the constant micromanaging of your inventory quickly becomes a tedious chore.

You spend most of your playtime (especially in endgame) sorting through loot showers knowing the odds of finding something you want are near-zero and when you do find something potentially good you can't at a glance tell if it's actually an improvement over your current kit because, again, Gearbox do a terrible job of communicating whether a piece of gear will be an objective improvement or if one stat will nerf your build completely.

 

[Kane Lives]

Wyświetl załącznik 9233818
"barely boimped into cheaters or teamers or rats or exit campers in 1k fucking hours" truly it's the gift that keeps on giving

To break it down, Marathon was released on 5th March. It has been exactly 4 months since release, or an average of 120 days. Man was clocking on average 8+ hours per day in the game.

That's apparently the Marathon crowd now. No-lifers NEETs.

 

[Bowiotronic]

That's apparently the Marathon crowd now.

Brother it gets sooo much better you really don't understand the levels of cope that these people carry

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1unnscq/steamdb_daily_active_users_ranking_is_no_longer/

This is approved in the official reddit after banning all discussions about player counts merely 2 days ago, it's just too much magic.

 

[Gamepads]

Brother it gets sooo much better you really don't understand the levels of cope that these people carry

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1unnscq/steamdb_daily_active_users_ranking_is_no_longer/

Wyświetl załącznik 9233901
This is approved in the official reddit after banning all discussions about player counts merely 2 days ago, it's just too much magic.

He's basically describing a LiveOps' nightmare, and yet I don't see any anomaly on the graph.

 

[Civillian 18]

Wyświetl załącznik 9233928
He's basically describing a LiveOps' nightmare, and yet I don't see any anomaly on the graph.

The post is referring to the daily active users # in particular, not the hourly graph for current players.

This will 100% be used as cope though, which is still fun.

 

[Gamepads]

The post is referring to the daily active users # in particular, not the hourly graph for current players.
Wyświetl załącznik 9233957
This will 100% be used as cope though, which is still fun.

Ah yes, gee wiz the one thing that people do care about, huh? No wonder that's an approved post, it's being misleading and giving out that copium to users that "daily user ranking=hourly user graph=not accurate"

Most people aren't even aware that rankings are a thing, the only thing left is the downward graph.

 

[fml]

Brother it gets sooo much better you really don't understand the levels of cope that these people carry

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1unnscq/steamdb_daily_active_users_ranking_is_no_longer/

Wyświetl załącznik 9233901
This is approved in the official reddit after banning all discussions about player counts merely 2 days ago, it's just too much magic.

I find it genuinely funny that the game is always at #1 in SteamDB searches because both the haters and the copers are constantly looking at it. I mean, it's not like they can find any games outside of some NA servers .

Also it's my first looter extraction shooter. Is it normal for gear to be so important in this genre?

Honestly if not for the cheaters and the devs' general retardation I'd tell you to pick up Escape From Tarkov. It has a PvE mode if you wanna chill and a PvP mode if you want to break everything in your immediate vicinity.

 

[creaturestorm]

Ran a raid this morning. I'm paired with two 'teens' on playstation not using their Mics, both of which are playing assassin... wew lad. I'm playing sentinel the most defensive class in the game.

We hear a key room open up, we sprint to it, all the PvE is still intact. I cant move through this shit with out alerting the bots. I let them roll in through it with stealth. Once the gun fire starts going off I join in. they kill a pair of them before I can make it in, I break a 3rd's shields and revive a team mate. I'm asking for pings, for location, any kind of information. They sit silent. We start looting bodies and the key room, i ask what kind of loot people are wanting or need, again silence. I loot a sniper.

One of them runs off to the sounds at another POI, the other starts doing a PvE event alone. Solo guy spots runner team of purple and blue at another key room.

Said keyroom is an elevated position and can only be reached through crossing an open field with no cover. Me and the other urban youth run to get an angle on the enemy team. I start opening up with a sniper, im breaking shields, but they have a room they can hide into to heal up. I'm not going to down these guys unless I get absolutely lucky. They start trading sniper shots back at me, same situation I have enough cover i can heal and they cant down me. Meanwhile the pair of assasins brave the field through stealth and one by one start pushing a coordinated team of 3 while I'm lending supporting fire. One by one they are gunned down and killed.

One of them immediately disconnects the other finally finds the mute button to his mic

"YO BRO WHADDA YA DO IN BRO!?!?! PUSH UP HOMIE!!!!"

I tell them they are fucking retarded and I go to exfil instead of attempting to 3v1 the team that's currently 100+ meters away. I chuck smokes and my defender system down on the exfil, i leave. At the post raid scene I'm watching the team of 3 hunt me down like a dog.

It's a wonder why people aren't in love with this game with a community like this.

 

[King Dead]

It's a wonder why people aren't in love with this game with a community like this.

It's a longstanding difficulty with team-based games, that your enjoyment is oftentimes, if not always, dependent on the quality of your teammates. The more your success relies on your team as a whole, the worse it will be if even one person isn't pulling their weight.

It reminds me of DotA and its clones, or hero shooters in a similar vein. If you have a team that's playing optimally, supporting each other, and pushing the objective, these games can be a lot of fun. But if you've got a weak link in your chain, the whole round can turn into an utter slog, especially in games with bad snowballing that are basically decided in the first few minutes of the match. Trouble is, a lot of people end up having a really good game early on, and then they're hooked for hundreds of hours afterward because they keep trying to recapture the feeling of that incredible win, suffering through match after match of dumb teammates to get there. (It also gives an easy out for suboptimal play on their part, letting them blame their teammates instead of themselves.)

Now, take that and add a loot chase, and also make it so you lose your shit if you die. Now, not only is your enjoyment in the current match dependent on other players doing well, but also the next match could end up going worse before you even get to it. Better hope you've got some top-tier bros to count on, because otherwise you're in for a slog.

Frankly, it would surprise me if games like this didn't have a negative community.

Wyświetl załącznik 9233818
"barely boimped into cheaters or teamers or rats or exit campers in 1k fucking hours" truly it's the gift that keeps on giving

Yet another thing they could have learned from Destiny, where they eventually after many years had their matchmaking prioritize pitting stacks of similar size against each other instead of a team of randos. Coordinated groups have a much better rate of success, and they're almost always going to stomp a bunch of random players. Then again, Marathon might not have the population to allow for that.

 

[Agares]

Are people still coping about this game being a flop?

The player numbers don't lie and the people calling it fake are dying of a copium overdose. It sucks and I don't entirely hate Marathon, but it's a niche game that was given AAA blockbuster expectations. Destiny 3 didn't have to die for this and I blame the execs at nuBungie.

 

[creaturestorm]

Are people still coping about this game being a flop?

I think so and they seem to be in a total minority, the kind of people who don't actually play and are cheerleading it from the side lines to hopefully get back at the chuds who are chart posting from the side lines. No bullshit, most of my in game chatter has been pretty much "Bungie fucked up, what are we playing next?".

If you've got a weak link in your chain, the whole round can turn into an utter slog

100%

Console players are looked down upon for how ridiculous their aim assist is in this game, They can pull off shots that are just inhuman, but at the same time have the turn speed of The MV Ever Given in the Suez Canel. They can mow down anything that runs in front of them, but fall over dead to anything coming at them from the sides or rear. Assassin players are also looked down upon for how good the invis/stealth mechanic is. It's near perfect invisibility, they always get the opening shot on you, even when you know it's coming. In a game with a high TTK, it's just utter bullshit. These retards win a ridiculous amount of fights they would otherwise lose if they play any other shell.

Then we have the Assassin player on console, the guy who thinks he's hot shit at the game, but is playing with the two biggest crutches possible. They don't actually ever learn how the game works. They honestly thought it was a good idea to just push that team, because up until then it's worked every other time. This pair of training wheels prevents these people from developing any kind of game sense and they are personally too fucking stupid to realize it. So they will keep plaguing this game until it's totally dead.

Wyświetl załącznik 9233818
"barely boimped into cheaters or teamers or rats or exit campers in 1k fucking hours" truly it's the gift that keeps on giving

I'm not buying the 1k hours bullshit, guy is exaggerating. In the 352 hours I have so far, I've bumped into cheaters -maybe- twice. I couldn't say for certain, but they always seemed to know exactly when and where I was flanking from and had nothing but head shots for me. Exfil camping doesnt happen, maybe this is a solo player problem? The maps are small enough and runner shells move fast enough you'd be a retard to camp an exfil. When an exfil light goes off me and the boys will run that team down if we can reach them in time, no need to camp it.

Youre better off camping places like Algae ponds (center and tallest point in the map) or like the basement in processing (we wait for team fights to happen and then we 3rd party) and maybe complex in Night marsh (you can just let people do the escape room and then take all the loot).

 

[Tanner Glass]

GTA 3 was 185
Halo 1 was 107
Halo 4 was 1058
Morrowind was 80
Skyrim was 782
Starfield was 3902
Overwatch in 2016 was 4493

Yes there's definitely been some absurd levels of bloat, but wherever you got your numbers from is way off from how bad it really is. And even if the "core studio" is only 50 people, it doesn't matter when 90% of the work is outsourced to 3,500 other people in a dozen different countries across so many timezones and languages they never even meet together for anything.

I ran through a few interviews from devs for "known" numbers as it isn't tracked so closely (much like sales)

RE - GTA3 - this is from the series lead producer for pretty much the entire life of the franchise. He said 23, but there's some input from Rockstar North in NYC (Housers, Lazlow, etc). Bethesda has come out and given the numbers for Oblivion (70) and Skyrim (100) and they're even listed on several websites.

Overwatch was ~70 people at most as Jeff Kaplan directly explains in the story of "you're getting a small team to salvage something out of this game or you're all fired".



I have no idea how you could play overwatch and think 4,000 people touched it.

 

[indomitable snowman]

I swear they are doing this intentionally to create "loot stockholm syndrome".
Feed players some good stuff at first then cut off the supply

I can attest that I'm pretty sure they time drops to play time. In Destiny, i played like a 10th of the time some of my clan mates did and yet I would get drops before them. There was one raid wevdid that one guy was on his 60th run or something. It was my second run and I got the exotic but he didn't. I noticed this on other stuff too. People would grind grind grind hours a day for weeks for something that I got in a few sporadic sessions over a week or two.

Tldr, don't play every day and you'll get your exotic faster.

 

[Frightened Rabbit]

I have no idea how you could play overwatch and think 4,000 people touched it.

What do you mean, it's pretty clear that game is a product of Rape.

I think nowadays there's this perception game's need to be made with big teams and that was always the case, and I think that's down to the bloated size of "teams" in triple A games, the general de-skilling of programming as a job, and a move towards a more fragmented style of development.
For the first, I actually believe that there were 100 people on the core team, but I also believe that there were 786 people who "worked on it", I feel like nowadays Companies factor in the people that are circular to actual development as people working directly in the game, I wouldn't count the PR people as core team members of the development but I feel like when these numbers are given out, they are factored in.

 

[The Noise]

It's a longstanding difficulty with team-based games, that your enjoyment is oftentimes, if not always, dependent on the quality of your teammates. The more your success relies on your team as a whole, the worse it will be if even one person isn't pulling their weight.

Team Fortress 2 managed to solve this by optimizing for the experience of the individual player rather than the team. Incidentally it became the most renowned "hero shooter" ever made and is still talked about for its design genius to this day. Every other PvP game with "hero shooter" elements has failed to learn these lessons and has become miserable to play as a result. Probably on purpose because then the matchmaking algorithm that every fucking game uses now can beat you down until your win/loss ratio is a perfect 50/50, which they can then brag about in a weekly blogpost where they say the game is perfectly balanced.

 

[p1138]

I ran through a few interviews from devs for "known" numbers as it isn't tracked so closely (much like sales)

RE - GTA3 - this is from the series lead producer for pretty much the entire life of the franchise. He said 23, but there's some input from Rockstar North in NYC (Housers, Lazlow, etc). Bethesda has come out and given the numbers for Oblivion (70) and Skyrim (100) and they're even listed on several websites.

Overwatch was ~70 people at most as Jeff Kaplan directly explains in the story of "you're getting a small team to salvage something out of this game or you're all fired".

Wyświetl załącznik 9236482

I have no idea how you could play overwatch and think 4,000 people touched it.

Then you need to take a look at the actual credits for the game. Initially it was a small team, but by the time it launched? Fuck no. Again, just because you have a small studio of 100 people or less, doesn't mean a damned thing when you outsource 90% of the work.

23 made GTA 3?

100 people on skyrim? Really? When it has a 10 minute long credit scroll?

And you really think Overwatch was 70 when it's credits scroll is almost 17 minutes? Initially it may have been a smaller team, but clearly it got bloated to shit before the game even launched.

I think I've made my point, but come on man. Just because the internal dev studio is tiny, doesn't mean shit when 20 different offices are involved before even bothering to outsource shit. This industry bloat is not new. Now compare that so something like Quake 3 Arena that actually gets through its credits in a minute and actually only had around 80 people working on it.

This is public information.