Goths, emos and scene kids - "If you're a fake goth, you're out son!" Hipster faggots and edgelord cringe

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Spunt powiedział(a):
There's still plenty of goths about, at least where I live, but for the most part they're attached to the Black Metal scene, and they tend to go for a more Norse or Celtic aesthetic rather than the Victorian thing, which does seem to have died out somewhat.
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There are/were different types of classic goth and like those political alignment charts they can be mapped out into four quadrants, quadrants that can be explained by music/bands. At least it makes sense in my head and this is all based my own impressions of girls and women I knew from the 90's and into the 2000's.

1. New-Classic Goth.
Likes: The Cure, The Smiths and by extension Morrissey.
Dislikes: Dead Can Dance
Crossover: Some crossover with new wave.
Birth: Mid 90's

Sexy Icons & Style: Robert Smith
robert_smith.jpg


Drama level: low to medium craziness
Fun to be around: meh
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

2. Metal Goth
Likes: Cradle of Filth
Dislikes: The Cure
Crossover: Some crossover with other genres like industrial and black metal.
Birth: Second half of the 90's

Sexy Icons & Style: Dani Filth, this also includes a Victorian style of vampire shit before gothic lolita being a known style.
cradle1.jpg

Drama level: medium craziness
Fun to be around: eh, not the worst
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

3. Marilyn Manson
Likes: Marilyn Manson.
Dislikes: Cradle of Filth
Crossover: Industrial. A lot of the neon rave goths seem to have spun out of this.
Birth: Late 90's.
Sexy Icons & Style: Marilyn Manson, you know how he looks.

Drama level: low, but they're trying!
Fun to be around: No, they're boring.
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

4. Classic goth
Likes: Dead Can Dance, New Order, synth pop
Dislikes: Marilyn Manson
Crossover: Their interests are pretty diverse but kitsch and camp was a recurring thing
Birth: 80's
Sexy Icons & Style: Varied, some elements from rockabilly and 50's style horror(Vampirella, Elvira) mixed with a more low-key gothness. Different enough to be noticed but not obnoxious enough to be told to dress differently at work.

Drama level: very little, they were older and more stable in their personality.
Fun to be around: Absolutely
Cuts themselves: How would I know if they don't brag about it.
 
Smaug's Smokey Hole powiedział(a):
There are/were different types of classic goth and like those political alignment charts they can be mapped out into four quadrants, quadrants that can be explained by music/bands. At least it makes sense in my head and this is all based my own impressions of girls and women I knew from the 90's and into the 2000's.

1. New-Classic Goth.
Likes: The Cure, The Smiths and by extension Morrissey.
Dislikes: Dead Can Dance
Crossover: Some crossover with new wave.
Birth: Mid 90's

Sexy Icons & Style: Robert Smith
Wyświetl załącznik 813594

Drama level: low to medium craziness
Fun to be around: meh
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

2. Metal Goth
Likes: Cradle of Filth
Dislikes: The Cure
Crossover: Some crossover with other genres like industrial and black metal.
Birth: Second half of the 90's

Sexy Icons & Style: Dani Filth, this also includes a Victorian style of vampire shit before gothic lolita being a known style.
Wyświetl załącznik 813603
Drama level: medium craziness
Fun to be around: eh, not the worst
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

3. Marilyn Manson
Likes: Marilyn Manson.
Dislikes: Cradle of Filth
Crossover: Industrial. A lot of the neon rave goths seem to have spun out of this.
Birth: Late 90's.
Sexy Icons & Style: Marilyn Manson, you know how he looks.

Drama level: low, but they're trying!
Fun to be around: No, they're boring.
Cuts themselves: Absolutely.

4. Classic goth
Likes: Dead Can Dance, New Order, synth pop
Dislikes: Marilyn Manson
Crossover: Their interests are pretty diverse but kitsch and camp was a recurring thing
Birth: 80's
Sexy Icons & Style: Varied, some elements from rockabilly and 50's style horror(Vampirella, Elvira) mixed with a more low-key gothness. Different enough to be noticed but not obnoxious enough to be told to dress differently at work.

Drama level: very little, they were older and more stable in their personality.
Fun to be around: Absolutely
Cuts themselves: How would I know if they don't brag about it.
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Sounds like I could've fit in with the Classic quadrant given their tastes and style (and may never have to cut myself).
 
Sheikh_Speare powiedział(a):
MrBlackDarkness666 is a parody account, but some of these people are all too real...
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MrBlackDarkness666 was a fucking genius. But he did it too soon. Yeah, sure the leafy thing was fucking hilarious, but he should have waited for troonery to become the fad it is today and went with that instead. That would have been so much funnier.
 
Goth Youtuber Angela Benedict was cornered by a TRA who demanded to know how she feels about gender ideology and was aggressively questioning her about her association to another goth POC gay male Youtuber, Kai Decadence. To get the TRA off her back, Angela decided to throw Kai Decadence under the bus, claiming she has now severed all ties with Kai just because he's a gender critical homosexual male who follows a lot of TERF accounts on Youtube and comments on a lot of TERF videos:


Here are some of very sensible comments that Kai has left underneath TERF videos on Youtube, as you can see he's very reasonable/fair and nothing like the screeching TERF that this TRA was making him out to be before Angela to get Angela to dump Kai as a friend:

This was an awesome and I'm glad that you two had this talk. But as I was listening to her explain her situation, I did pick up on some red flags and came up with a hypothesis about how she ended up falling for the trans narrative. Now I'm not trying to speak for her and say that this is exactly what it was but it's more of a possible explanation and there 2 key things that stuck out to me but I'll try to keep things as short as I can.

~ So I definitely feel that the homophobia she experienced by her father played a part in her developing a negative self image about herself as well as the environment she was growing up in in her home life. She said that her father had no qualms ranting and raving about how much he didn't like homosexuality and more than likely felt very negatively about homosexual people even if he didn't know them. Having to grow up with a parental figure like that is definitely not easy for a child to have to live through but when Nick started to realize that she actually found other girls attractive, this only doubled her fear of her father. That because her father was so vocal about his disapproval of homosexual people, she probably felt that if she let it be known to her family that she may be Lesbian or at the very least, admit that she can find other women attractive (along with men since she said she thinks she may be bisexual), she more than likely felt that her father would not accept her and may even disown her (we've heard stories of close-minded parents disowning their homosexual child and this is a real fear that a lot of us homosexuals feel, myself included as a gay man when I was a teenager -sorta, it's complicated lol -).

But not only that, it also seems like Nick vastly preferred to be masculine as opposed to feminine and I have a very big feeling that her father was not accepting of gender nonconforming people (feminine men and masculine women), especially if they actually dressed in a nonconforming way and this more than likely added to the fear and dysphoria. That she felt that the only way she could present herself as a masculine person is to be a man. So take that plus her homosexual attraction, she felt that if she just came out as a "Straight Transman", she wouldn't be judged or criticized for her homosexual attraction to other women + be able to present herself the way she truly wanted to which was masculine.

~ The other factor I picked up was annoyance and dislike of female socialization. From all that she shared, it really feels like she really didn't like the way girls and women are socialized to be. The whole obsessed with femininity and more importantly, being submissive. The feeling that men are in control and women have to follow with no objection. And then other things like how men can walk around topless and showoff their muscle but women can't walk around topless showing off their muscles. Or maybe how women are discouraged to have obvious musculature (muscular women being poked fun at) while muscular men don't get the same treatment. I only bring up the muscle angle since she mentioned how men can showoff their bodies but women can't when it comes to musculature. And there's probably some other traits that I probably missed but those are the general ones I noticed when it came to the socialization aspect.

But also to take into consideration, she did start hearing about this kinda stuff at a young age what with her friend and that probably did lead to some confusion but because she tried to train herself to see her friend as a man, along the way she may have started feeling that if she could do that for her friend, then what's stopping her from trying that with herself where she could try to escape being female and having people try to see her as a man? Especially since I'm assuming her friends tried to comply with the trans-identified friend's wants which also could've inadvertently made her think that if her friends were that accommodating than everyone else will be as well. And then of course the eventual discovery of people like Kalvin Garrah and it was on from there on out.

Either way, I think talking with you really will make a difference. I think that the reason why Nick may feel weird about herself is that she's still in the process of trying to ween off the ideology. If Nick happens to see this comment, I just want you to know that you're totally justified in feeling the way you do and to not worry too much about this. Try not to rush this and take your time because trying to fight this kinda thing after being wrapped up in it for so long is not easy for anyone. Just remember you're not alone in the fight to get control of yourself again and remember to speak with other de-transitioners because they will understand you more than anyone else will and you can all find and trade ways to help work through the de-transition.

In the meantime though, I want you to do this. Accept yourself as a masculine woman. Forget about societal expectations of what a woman is. If you want to be a Muscular, masculine woman, GO FOR IT. There's no problem with that at all. And on the whole thing about not wanting to feel submissive nor want to submit to a man in the physical intimacy aspect, you don't have to. But if you do ever want to have physical relations with men, just know that there are heterosexual & bisexual men who are more than okay with having a dominant, leader type of woman and they'll more than like your company. But as for other women? Again, I'm sure there will be plenty of women who will like that about you too. I just bring this up because I've heard some dominant women worry about how their personality may scare off partners and while that might happen for some, it'll also attract others too.

Anyway again, awesome talk you two!
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This was a hard video to watch. It's projection, Kalvin is projecting that trauma and that's why she's getting so pissed at Elle because unlike her fans who just go along with everything she says, here you have a woman who is a mother actually putting in more thought and critical analysis to the events of something that was traumatizing to a young 9 YEAR OLD kid.

Everything that Elle said was true and she wasn't even being mean and antagonistic about the situation.

I think the thing that really set Kalvin off was the word "blame", I notice that was when she would really get emotional. The fact that yes, it was her mom's fault for not being there. Kalvin is right that kids don't listen to their parents sometimes but with the circumstance of being in an area where an accident can easily happen, it' was her mother's duty to make sure that if her kids were gonna be outside, she had to be out there with them. That or an adult whom she trusted who could watch the kids.

Kalvin got so angry at being told her mother was at fault for the almost fatal accident and she doesn't know how to process it so what does she do? She reacts like a child throwing a tantrum. That's why she resorted to the petty name calling which obviously won't work on an adult.

So Elle is the most vile piece of crap person to her merely because she just spoke the truth? No. She was being sympathetic and she's too blinded by her irrational anger to see it. It's clear that Kalvin has some mental issues and I hope that she gets the proper help to address it and hopefully with time and maturity, she'll come to understand that Elle was not trying to cause harm to her.
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I've read about that about Kalvin but I also read that she did have a moment in her childhood where she didn't like that because she was a girl, she wasn't allowed to walk around topless, especially at the beach like her male friends could. It's clear that Kalvin's parents didn't impose femininity on her which is cool but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't get judged from people outside her household and that can really do damage to one's self-esteem just as much as getting come down hard from your parents/family. Couple this factor, the one you said, and the trauma of watching her sister get run over by a car at such a young age; yeah it's pretty clear these events created the dysphoria. I don't buy that BS that she said wanted to be a boy at the age of 3. Who actually remembers anything they said when they were at such a young age? I just don't buy that.
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You know the funny thing about people like Kalvin Garrah is that they drone on and on about how they have all this so called evidence and proof that proves that transgender ideology is a real thing but yet in these videos, they don't even quote any of them.
Their arguments just come down to "Scientists, Neurologists, etc say this and that". Who? Which doctors? Which neurologists? (there aren't any) Nothing.

It's just nonsense and that is why the lot of them get pissy when women speak up about how transgender ideology is not a thing. And of course we have to hear the usual "I knew I was a boy/girl since I was 3" argument. First off, I think they're lying because who really remembers what they said at such a very young age?

And second, again they conflate "being a girl" or "being a boy" by being interested in opposite socially constructed gender stereotypes (Girl wants to play with trucks, wear masculine clothing, and have very short hair. Boy wants to play with dolls, wear a dress and/or have very long hair). It's just rooted in stereotypes and because they are so young, they don't realize that they can do all these things and still be boys and girls and that being interested in things that go against socially constructed gender norms doesn't make them the opposite sex.

I didn't know that Kalvin was threatening to dox Elle but I know that whatever Elle said was not malicious or mean-spirited. Kalvin is still young (at least around the age of 20-21) and from the videos I've seen Elle do, I know she would never maliciously attack someone and whatever she said would've been insightful.

But I'm not surprised, there is a lot of obvious red flags with Kalvin that make it obvious why she has trauma and may have used this trauma as a way to disassociate herself from biological reality.
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@Transhumanist Cult Awareness Network Not only that but if they say it aloud and try to engage with actual gender critical people among an audience, it can end in a peak trans awakening when some of the audience members hear just how nonsensical and ridiculous the TRAs & Trans enthusiasts sound. I mean is it any real coincidence that when one of them actually tried tackling gender critical (Contrapoints), he didn't even try conversing with an actual Gender Critical feminist and instead sought out input from "ex" gender critical feminists? He prides himself as this intellectual and deep person yet fears debating it with an actual GC feminist.
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I am pretty sure Angela Benedict has never read these comments and the associated threads for herself to see what Kai actually had to say on this topic. Instead she just went along with whatever the TRA said about Kai being a TERF and how Angela needed to isolate him from the trans community to prove how "woke" she really is.

This was the video from Kai Decadence that the TRA was angry about, that prompted Angela to throw Kai under the bus to get the TRA moral police to back off:


Just so you know, Angela Benedict, when you give these people a finger they'll take an arm. You should never bow down to TRAs trying to corner you about who you hang out with or what they believe in. You should've defended Kai's right to have his own opinions as a homosexual POC gender-non conforming man. But instead of defending your fellow Youtuber against the TRAs trying to get him isolated, you went and destroyed your relationship because you were scared of these guilt-by-association fallacies. Spineless, absolutely spineless. You gave the TRA exactly what he wanted, and I can assure you he will never back down now, he will continue to come back at you, demanding that you do more to prove your allegiance to the TRA cult, demanding that you destroy more friendships and more associations to prove what a morally upright true believer you are.

In case you ever read this KF post, here's a video about how SJW woke cult members infiltrate and destroy subcultures from within:

 
used to hang with a group of emos back in middle school. i first thought they were creppy but surprisingly, they were very nice and pleasant to be around.

i sometimes think back and wonder how they doing. not like i remember their names but i hope they doing alright.
 
Spunt powiedział(a):
There's still plenty of goths about, at least where I live, but for the most part they're attached to the Black Metal scene, and they tend to go for a more Norse or Celtic aesthetic rather than the Victorian thing, which does seem to have died out somewhat.

I thought that Emos were extinct, but amazingly there are still a few out there, and I found an astonishing throwback from the most unlikely of sources - the Youtuber Justin Whang, who I'm sure a lot of Kiwis are fond of, given that he's into documenting old internet drama. Now I knew he was in a band, but I did not know until he shared this link about a week ago that his band were the product of some kind of unholy union of Limp Bizkit, BrokenCyde and Attack Attack:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KFYgYA7wI-s
Someone made this music. In 2019.
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Is it bad that I actually kind of liked this for how unapologetically embarrassing it was. :oops: Maybe I'm getting hit with nostalgia.
 
Frenzy of Sharks powiedział(a):
Seeing the new shit that Zoomers are into.

I'd rather take the old Goth and Emo shit over the new trends Zoomers follow these days.
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Zoomers DO try to skinwalk all three, especially scene, with mixed results but it's usually restricted to 'aesthetic' or 'core' shit on social media. I've only seen vaguely emo looking young people IRL, never goth or scene.

It's sad more than anything that they're consciously cribbing old subcultures instead of creating new ones, it's kind of the same shit as the fascination with the 'old Internet'.
 
Punished Derich powiedział(a):
Zoomers DO try to skinwalk all three, especially scene, with mixed results but it's usually restricted to 'aesthetic' or 'core' shit on social media. I've only seen vaguely emo looking young people IRL, never goth or scene.

It's sad more than anything that they're consciously cribbing old subcultures instead of creating new ones, it's kind of the same shit as the fascination with the 'old Internet'.
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True, these guys wouldn't last a day back in 1995!
 
Is there any subculture that zoomers have NOT had a fleeting interest in before moving on a month later to shit up another one?
 
Punished Derich powiedział(a):
Zoomers DO try to skinwalk all three, especially scene, with mixed results but it's usually restricted to 'aesthetic' or 'core' shit on social media. I've only seen vaguely emo looking young people IRL, never goth or scene.
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As an 'elder emo', as in someone who was into it in like 2001, I actually saw a zoomer that looked straight out of Warped Tour from that era. The make-up, hair, and the fucking Fenix TX shirt was on point. It made me pause for a moment. I won't lie, I kind of loved it. If it wasn't a 19 year old girl my old ass would have sparked up a conversation about music with them.
 
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