Anyone else feel like a lot of "female empowerment" material is just another coat of paint for shitting on women?

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Flaming_Barghast

Usherer of the spookie
kiwifarms.net
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27 Sty 2021
For example, I grew up listinging to a lot of P!nk, I loved a lot of the stuff related to self esteem. But I went back to an older song I liked called "stupid girls" and realized it's just... kinda shitting on the average woman. It obviously describes more valley girl-esque types, celeb chasers, the like. But it also kinda draws parallel to liking traditionally girly things/rolls as bad. Anyone else notice this?
And anyone else have examples?

For a more positive example, "18 wheeler" is honestly pretty good for picking yourself up on a hard day.
 
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female empowerment TWU
 
It obviously describes more valley girl-esque types, celeb chasers, the like
The idea itself, as in pointing out/satirizing certain types of women or acknowledging them as shitty is not bad, in my opinion. In fact I am very interested in discussing the less than savory female characters and exploring the reasoning behind bizzare or, say, criminal behaviours.

What I find annoying is the fact that the bad/good in media like in the songs mentioned are defined by not something moral or meaningful, but "what type of clothes they wear, what content do they consume etc.". The good counterpart here is not celebrating decent human characteristics but a set of looks and interests favoured by a certain ideology that happens to be opposing traditionalist views. Basically again implying that there is the only one correct way to be a woman, but in reverse.

To add to the topic, I would like to say it's the "female empowerment" movies that make me usually go "ugh". From stuff in 90s when it was not easy to find a show where a female character isn't shown as always perfect, "one of the boys" or a straight man to wacky men, to the current one with stuff like Captain Marvel or Rey Palpatine. Deprived of flaws or being able to be wrong and addressed as such creates an opposite effect. Instead of finding these characters cool, you think they are lame and boring.


I used to think it was because mostly male screenwriters just don't know how to write women without establishing "how they are the good thinking people who are aware that women are not just stupid bimbos, and you, the male viewer, should be too!!!", but there are also many female writers who do this stuff too, for example, in DC and Marvel movies/comics. Is it just the bad writer thing or something else?
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
I don't think Pink/Avril Lavigne's Sk8r Boy quite fit the 'empowerment song' mold. Stupid Girls is a pickme song and P!nk was the leader of the corporate pop bland pickme movement. Wipe away dyed hair and her ability to flip the bird, then the package is market research pop with sometimes an electric guitar in the chorus.
Sk8r boi to me is in a cluster with Bills Bills Bills , Truth Hurts, No Scrubs, and Hit 'em Up Style where their tone reads first as 'fuck you, specific man' and the empowerment there is a product of the man being disappointing so the woman gurrlbosses up.

IMO Girl Power™ pop music gets going when 'woke' gets going, see Meghan Trainor, Katy Petty, Lizzo,
stuff like
THIS.GIRL. IS ON FII-YERR​
CUZ BABY YOU'RE A FIIREWORK COME ON SHOW EM WHAT YOU'RE WORTH
ITS THE EYE OF THE TIGER DANCING THOUGH THE FIRE
THIS IS IS MY FIGHT SONG, TAKE BACK MY LIFE SONG
 
The idea itself, as in pointing out/satirizing certain types of women or acknowledging them as shitty is not bad, in my opinion. In fact I am very interested in discussing the less than savory female characters and exploring the reasoning behind bizzare or, say, criminal behaviours.

What I find annoying is the fact that the bad/good in media like in the songs mentioned are defined by not something moral or meaningful, but "what type of clothes they wear, what content do they consume etc.". The good counterpart here is not celebrating descent human characteristics but a set of looks and interests favoured by a certain ideology that happens to be opposing traditionalist views. Basically again implying that there is the only one correct way to be a woman, but in reverse.

To add to the topic, I would like to say it's the "female empowerment" movies that make me usually go "ugh". From stuff in 90s when it was not easy to find a show where a female character isn't shown as always perfect, "one of the boys" or a straight man to wacky men, to the current one with stuff like Captain Marvel or Rey Palpatine. Deprived of flaws or being able to be wrong and addressed as such creates an opposite effect. Instead of finding these characters cool, you think they are lame and boring.


I used to think it was because mostly male screenwriters just don't know how to write women without establishing "how they are the good thinking people who are aware that women are not just stupid bimbos, and you, the male viewer, should be too!!!", but there are also many female writers who do this stuff too, for example, in DC and Marvel movies/comics. Is it just the bad writer thing or something else?
There are good ones though, mulan, Ariel, even a lot of female disney villains early on were done amazingly well, they showed that they weren't good at everything, still had to learn and adapt, etc. But it's much more recent that it's ham fisted.
 
The idea itself, as in pointing out/satirizing certain types of women or acknowledging them as shitty is not bad, in my opinion. In fact I am very interested in discussing the less than savory female characters and exploring the reasoning behind bizzare or, say, criminal behaviours.

What I find annoying is the fact that the bad/good in media like in the songs mentioned are defined by not something moral or meaningful, but "what type of clothes they wear, what content do they consume etc.". The good counterpart here is not celebrating descent human characteristics but a set of looks and interests favoured by a certain ideology that happens to be opposing traditionalist views. Basically again implying that there is the only one correct way to be a woman, but in reverse.

To add to the topic, I would like to say it's the "female empowerment" movies that make me usually go "ugh". From stuff in 90s when it was not easy to find a show where a female character isn't shown as always perfect, "one of the boys" or a straight man to wacky men, to the current one with stuff like Captain Marvel or Rey Palpatine. Deprived of flaws or being able to be wrong and addressed as such creates an opposite effect. Instead of finding these characters cool, you think they are lame and boring.


I used to think it was because mostly male screenwriters just don't know how to write women without establishing "how they are the good thinking people who are aware that women are not just stupid bimbos, and you, the male viewer, should be too!!!", but there are also many female writers who do this stuff too, for example, in DC and Marvel movies/comics. Is it just the bad writer thing or something else?
Pickmeism was such an absolute plague in the 00s, presumably as a backlash to the nonstop tabloid gossip and misogyny directed at women like Britney, Paris, Lindsay etc. and since girly teenage girls liked them, it sorta developed into this general attitude of hating those kinds of girls by extension and proving you were cool because you were NLOG
 
But it's much more recent that it's ham fisted.
Indeed. Which is why I believe it's a general modern school of writing problem.

It breeds ignorance and lacks critical thinking, which combined with surface level corporate grrl feminism politics, creates media with such conflicted morals and characters for women.
 
I feel like Avril Lavinge "Skater Boy" was a bit like this.
And Taylor Swift "You Belong with Me"
In terms of "shitting on women", Avril's "Girlfriend" was fucking heinous. Straight up homewrecker anthem. "I don't like your girlfriend, I think you need a new one.... I'll have you wrapped around my finger, 'cause I can do it better.... she's so stupid what the hell were you thinking."

Obviously that song isn't about female empowerment, but I feel like these "female empowerment" icons (Avril Lavigne, P!nk, Gwen Stefani) fall back into these "pick me" tropes entirely too often. Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl" is about her beating the shit out of a cheerleader using the stereotype of "cheerleaders are bitchy whores who can't fight" that's been going on since the 90's. Cheerleaders are not weak lol. I imagine they can hold their own in a physical confrontation.

In my opinion, a lot of popular media "female empowerment" stuff (be it movies, music, or other forms of entertainment) fall too often into shitting on other women that don't fit into your clique by using outdated or inaccurate stereotypes. This was extremely common in Goth/Punk/Alt scenes in the early 2000's. So many "ugh, she's a fucking poser, she doesn't even [insert arbitrary reason here]."

So while it may be hard to think of specific examples, I think OP is onto something.
 
I've been saying this sort of thing for years to anyone who'll listen.

A lot of this "empowering" media (especially film/TV) tells me that I am not good enough unless I reject feminine roles and act like a man. It's depressing.
 
I used to think it was because mostly male screenwriters just don't know how to write women without establishing "how they are the good thinking people who are aware that women are not just stupid bimbos, and you, the male viewer, should be too!!!", but there are also many female writers who do this stuff too, for example, in DC and Marvel movies/comics. Is it just the bad writer thing or something else?
There are a variety of reasons. From the female writer side, there's been this huge push for "representation," and what this has meant in so many words is that protagonists are supposed to be self-inserts. What used to be considered bad writing is now considered necessary writing. What you see from modern female writers is no awareness that writing a person as a wish-fulfillment vehicle isn't actually good writing at all. The go-to example everyone uses is Bella from Twilight, who's little more than a vehicle for Stephanie Meyer's fantasies.

From modern male writers, a different force is at play, and that's that any flaw or inadequacy you write into a female character violates woke policy. Your example of Rey is perfect. Think about where she got in the Millennium Falcon and was instantly a better pilot than Han Solo, who was practically married to that ship. It makes no sense in the story. She'd never been off that planet and never flown before. Luke and Anakin both had to learn how to fly. The alternative was to have her learn something from a man. These days, any time you show a woman being less amazing at something than a man, even when it makes perfect sense in the story, the writer will be accused of sexism. If they'd written Rey as a realistic character, reviewers would have said, "The Force Awakens is yet another story about a woman who seemingly can't do anything unless a man shows her how." The irony is then we get absolutely terrible female characters, cardboard cutouts with no humanity to them, no growth, no struggle, resulting in Finn and Poe both being better characters than Rey, the exact opposite of what they were trying to achieve.
 
A lot of what’s pushed as female empowerment is also just advertising/consumerism.
 
I've been saying this sort of thing for years to anyone who'll listen.

A lot of this "empowering" media (especially film/TV) tells me that I am not good enough unless I reject feminine roles and act like a man. It's depressing.
It sends the message that being a woman in general is bad. There is nothing wrong with not being traditionally feminine, but there is something aggressively misogynistic and vile about the constant shitting on femininity in current media.
 
I'm going to get a lot of negative reactions but fuck it.

Women are so toxic to other women and they give the worst advice to each other. It's rarely to uplift but usually because the cunty competitive side likes to see them struggle--it makes them feel like they have power and control when there is actually very little of either in their life

Cunts in a bucket.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
I'm going to get a lot of negative reactions but fuck it.

Women are so toxic to other women and they give the worst advice to each other. It's rarely to uplift but usually because the cunty competitive side likes to see them struggle--it makes them feel like they have power and control when there is actually very little of either in their life

Cunts in a bucket.
No, that's pretty accurate. Anyone giving you negative reactions would be Cleopatra. Queen of De-Nile 😂

Women are competitive like men for potential mates and status, but women go about it much differently than men do. Evolutionarily and psychologically speaking, men use money, flashy cars, high rolling careers, and physical prowess. All things that can prove they are the best provider, and the flash helps attract attention.

Women pull for male attention using their appearance most of the time. Because women decide who's genes get carried on, they need as large of a pool of suitors as possible to make the best decision for their offspring. So women will have a tendency to attack each other's appearances, sense of belonging, self esteem, etc in an attempt to reduce the amount of competing women by making them self conscious or feel ostracized from the "herd". Men do this to, but in a much more obvious way. Men tend to be more confrontational, women less so, because of humanity's past roles in evolutionary history. Men cannonfodder, so go poke animal with stick. Women bringers of life, so stay safe at hut with baby, pick berries.
Very simplified but you get the idea lol.

Humans are a collective species, generally speaking. I should also clarify all of my above points are "generally speaking". There are always outliers and exceptions to every rule.

None of these survival mechanisms are necessary any more. Unfortunately those parts of the human brain, despite it being unnecessary, haven't had time to remove it from it's "survival mechanism programming", so to speak. We evolved in terms of technology so quickly the last couple hundred years, that our brains and bodies have not had the time it usually takes to catch up to our changing environments. So we're left with this behavior urge we don't need, and it just expresses itself in anyway it can. Often leading to toxic interactions with both sexes. How often do men literally get into physical altercations over a potential romantic or sexual partner? How often do women attempt to break up a couple because she wants what the other woman has?

Human nature is fascinating as it is fucking awful. The human condition really is the mother of all gauntlets.
 
I'm going to get a lot of negative reactions but fuck it.

Women are so toxic to other women and they give the worst advice to each other. It's rarely to uplift but usually because the cunty competitive side likes to see them struggle--it makes them feel like they have power and control when there is actually very little of either in their life

Cunts in a bucket.
Nah I agree. Women are equally as competitive as men, the problem is we're meaner. Guys can slug each other in the face and call it good, even be best friends. Girls? Oh you have an enemy for life.
 
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