US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish alliesWhite House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan
www.theguardian.com
Julian Borger - October 7, 2019 The White House has given the green light to a Turkish offensive into northern Syria, moving US forces out of the area in an abrupt foreign policy change that will in effect abandon Washington’s longtime allies, the Kurds. Kurdish forces have spearheaded the campaign against Islamic State in the region, but the policy swerve, after a phone conversation between Donald Trump and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Sunday, means Turkey would take custody of captured Isis fighters, the White House said. It has also raised fears of fresh fighting between Turkey and Kurdish forces in Syria’s complex war now the US no longer acts as a buffer between the two sides. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said on Monday morning that their US partners had already begun withdrawing troops from areas along Turkey’s border. Footage aired on Kurdish news agency Hawar purportedly showed US armoured vehicles leaving positions near the towns of Ras al-Ayn and Tal Abyad in the border region. The SDF spokesman, Mustafa Bali, accused the US of leaving the area to “turn into a war zone”, adding that the SDF would “defend north-east Syria at all costs”. A statement from the Turkish foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, also early on Monday said that Ankara had “supported the territorial integrity of Syria since the beginning of the crisis and will continue to do so … [We are] determined to ensure survivability and security of Turkey by clearing the region from terrorists. We will contribute to bringing safety, peace and stability to Syria.” The decision represents the latest in a series of erratic moves by Trump, fighting impeachment at home, apparently taken without consultation with, or knowledge of, US diplomats dealing with Syria. Ruben Gallego, an Iraq war veteran and Democratic congressman from Arizona, tweeted: “Allowing Turkey to move into northern Syria is one of the most destabilising moves we can do in the Middle East. The Kurds will never trust America again. They will look for new alliances or independence to protect themselves.” In August, the US and Turkey came to an agreement to create a “safe zone” in northern Syria, by which the US-backed Kurdish-led SDF would pull back from the border. Ankara sees the SDF as indistinguishable from Kurdish insurgents inside Turkey and views it as a serious security threat. The safe zone deal was due to forestall a Turkish military offensive. In the White House statement issued just before 11 pm on Sunday, however, that agreement was not mentioned. “Today, President Donald J Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey by telephone,” the surprise statement said. “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the Isis territorial ‘caliphate’, will no longer be in the immediate area.” The statement suggested that in return for US acquiescence in a Turkish offensive, Erdoğan had assured Trump that Turkey would take over the detention of Isis militants captured by the SDF, on the battlefield. The custody of Europeans and other foreign fighters has long been one of Trump’s preoccupations, and he has lambasted European governments for not taking responsibility for their own nationals in Isis ranks. “The US government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured Isis fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused,” the White House statement continued. “The US will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all Isis fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial caliphate by the United States.” Syria experts warned that the US abandonment of the SDF would lead to another, new front in the eight-year Syrian conflict, and could push the Kurds into seeking an arrangement with the Assad regime in Damascus. Two weeks ago, at the UN general assembly, the US special envoy for the global coalition to defeat Isis, James Jeffrey, stressed that the US had an agreement with Turkey on a safe zone, in recognition of Ankara’s security concerns, that obviated the need for an Turkish incursion. “We listen to the Turks’ concerns. We try to respond to them when we can,” Jeffrey said. “And we have made it clear to Turkey at every level that any unilateral operation is not going to lead to an improvement in anyone’s security – not Turkey’s, not the people in the north-east, not the people around the world who feel threatened by Daesh [Isis], which is the basic purpose for our US military being in the north-east in the first place.” Another outcome of the Trump-Erdoğan call is that the Turkish leader is expected to visit the White House next month. |
War US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish allies - White House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan
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- Dołączono
- 24 Lut 2019
You are ignoring that Turkey is an "ally" too. You seemingly have such a bug up your ass about allies but you'd have conflict with one?
That "bad foreign policy" is the exact same shit you keep advocating for, what the fuck.
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
Turkey is being denouced by the international community, its clear that Turkey has gone rogue and is upsetting its neighbors.
You and others are the ones who keep bellyaching about the past, its pretty clear from the reactions around the world that what Trump did was stupid.
- Dołączono
- 12 Wrz 2017
So we just need to prod some other countries into decrying an ally in order to abandoned them. Neat.
If you're so worried about our second greatest ally, what have you personally done besides whine on a forum?
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 25 Mar 2018
Ah yes, ”the world". Seeing as how most of it is a dumpster fire, you'll have to excuse me for not trusting thier immediate opinion. The American people are tired, absolutely tired of Middle East grab ass. If the rest of the world would like to go play Cops: Desert, fuck it, I say let 'em
- Dołączono
- 24 Lut 2019
So are the Kurds though? Or did you forget everyone in the region hates them?
That "past" people are "bellyaching" about is a shitload of americans dead and maimed, dude. You've yet to give me a solid reason why I should give one iota of a fuck what anybody around the world thinks, of Trump or America.
You also completely ignored how what you keep advocating for is the same shit you yourself labeled "bad foreign policy".
BR55
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 8 Maj 2017
Wow that "gambling addict" line was on the money.
I keep bring up "past failures" because you have no answer to them and, again like a gambling addict, insist on
And as others have brought up, you make a big deal about "allies" but ignore that Turkey is an ally too and a NATO member at that.
You can say that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing, and that would be fair, but they are and as NATO member they come ahead of the Kurd's in the pecking order.
Just like when the Iraqi Kurds tried it and failed because a whole Iraq was more important to Washington then they were.
How about you quit applying simplistic black and white narratives to endlessly complex clusterfucks like the middle east.
There are regional powers like Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel and world powers like Russia, China and America all squabbling over Syria.
The immortal phrase "An interesting game. The only winning move is not to play." has never been more appropriate but people like you are just compelled to have America stick it's dick in the beehive yet again.
Super-Chevy454
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 2 Kwi 2018
"An interesting game".. could be someone else want to force us to play? That reminds me of this A. Wyatt Mann meme.
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
They hate Turkey more than they hate the Kurds
Erdoğan has managed the unthinkable: uniting all the other Middle East rivals | Simon Tisdall
Turkey’s Syria invasion following US withdrawal of its troops means that all bets are now off in the Middle East
www.theguardian.com
American casualties
That is far lower than yearly American deaths at home.
You should care because Trump is making America look unreliable, enemies now view Trump as weak and impulsive. Allies question whether American can be trusted to protect them and any future alliances are now going to be harder to make.
Analysis: Trump's Syria move gets quick, negative results
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. must escape the "Endless Wars" in the Middle East, President Donald Trump repeatedly declares. Mission accomplished, at least in the shortest of short terms. When on...
www.apnews.com
Trump has shown he does not understand politics at all and anyone who thought he was making the right choice do not understand how much damage Trump has caused for decades to come. What is going to happen when we or our allies face a terrorist attack what then? Who is going to help us?
- Dołączono
- 11 Mar 2019
Who gives a single flying fuck? All those countries could disappear tomorrow and the only thing lost would be oil. There's no 'international community'. There's America and there's everyone else.
Everyone else can get fucked.
- Dołączono
- 24 Lut 2019
They hate Turkey more than they hate the Kurds
Erdoğan has managed the unthinkable: uniting all the other Middle East rivals | Simon Tisdall
Turkey’s Syria invasion following US withdrawal of its troops means that all bets are now off in the Middle East
Great. Still not mine nor America's problem.
That is possibly the most fucking callous god damn response to what I said you could possibly have made. What the fuck is wrong with you that you view those casualties as acceptable when they were entirely avoidable were we not fucking around in that region?
How many times need it be stated that we're already viewed that way? I'll reiterate that a good analogy is trying to warn a notorious rapist that he needs to watch it or people will start calling him a liar.
He literally ran on "America First" and getting us out of these pants-on-head retarded adventures that uniparty pricks have pushed to line their pockets with american blood. What the fuck are you smoking.
Who is going to help us? What the fuck does that even mean? What "help" would you have someone give us, the country that seemingly pays everyone the hell else "aid" of some kind with nary a cent in return? We already have our own intelligence agencies, we're already in Five Eyes, and it can not be overstated that after 9/11 the american people pretty much lost the 4th amendment allegedly for security. If the NSA can't do it's job then we need to focus effort on why exactly that is.
You still haven't answered the point that the shit you're selling is a policy you yourself called bad, which is interesting.
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 25 Mar 2018
You know, sure. If like Japan got attacked by China, or someone attacked the UK and we totally nope'd out, yeah, that would cause major ramifications. Middle East nobodies? Nobody but warhawks and shareholders are losing sleep over that. Certainly not US citizens.They hate Turkey more than they hate the Kurds
Erdoğan has managed the unthinkable: uniting all the other Middle East rivals | Simon Tisdall
Turkey’s Syria invasion following US withdrawal of its troops means that all bets are now off in the Middle East
American casualties
That is far lower than yearly American deaths at home.
You should care because Trump is making America look unreliable, enemies now view Trump as weak and impulsive. Allies question whether American can be trusted to protect them and any future alliances are now going to be harder to make.
Analysis: Trump's Syria move gets quick, negative results
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. must escape the "Endless Wars" in the Middle East, President Donald Trump repeatedly declares. Mission accomplished, at least in the shortest of short terms. When on...
Trump has shown he does not understand politics at all and anyone who thought he was making the right choice do not understand how much damage Trump has caused for decades to come. What is going to happen when we or our allies face a terrorist attack what then? Who is going to help us?
BR55
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 8 Maj 2017
Just quit trying man.
I've come to the conclusion that Nova is an un-ironic NeoCon.
He'll keep spitting out simpering cliches about "honor" and "keeping our word" and "decades of damage" and who is going to help us now?
Fuck Syria and fuck interventionism.
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
It is America's problem because it harder to make alliances or economic deals if the world can't trust you. Trump destroyed America's credibility and it will take years for us to regain the world's trust again after what Trump did.
You are too cautious, despite the massive deployment of troops the casualties are not absurdly high. Considering more people die in the US domestically from gun violence than soldiers who died in the middle east since the "War on Terror" began. How we approached Syria we are lessening casualties and fought a more effective way of handling terrorists. It shows how far we come. But Trump doesn't see it that way, he doesn't understand what he did with the Syria withdrawal and the fallout it caused.
Trump's America First is a failure, he has made people more divided, he has alienated us from our allies, left people to die and started a stupid trade war with China that is hurting the economy. He is stonewalling congress at every turn and he stole money from the military to fund a vanity project.
Trump's border wall - in seven charts
The number of people crossing into the US from Mexico is the highest in a decade. So what is going on at the border?
www.bbc.com
I already said that is the past, mistake were made and we learned from them.
- Dołączono
- 14 Cze 2018
That's the exact same conclusion I came to several pages.
It's either that, or pony-avatard Shining Nova is a really good troll.
I mean just look at this shit:
What even is an alliance of convenience?
And why should a global hegemon even care what the rest of the world thinks? They'll still be sucking up to us regardless.
- Dołączono
- 24 Lut 2019
You're ignoring that the world already doesn't trust us, repeatedly. You're now talking in circles and avoiding the pointed problems with your arguments. I'm beginning to suspect this conversation has reached the end of it's usefulness.
"Too cautious"? These are human lives, and needless deaths in a senseless war you're talking about. I would pay you money to see you give this spiel to a family that lost someone in the Middle East due to absolute psychos like you. At least the people making bank off the MIC in the government from this shitfest have had an excuse for fucks' sake.
Oh boy this'll be fun.
The media has made people more divided. The Democrats hollering about how he's Neo-Mega-Hitler-Satan have people more divided. Not Trump, and funny enough you saying so is equivalent to saying that "Trump getting elected has made more people divided" which would be comical were it not for the dire implications such a statement has.
Nobody cares. Nobody should care. The U.S. is enough of an economic and military powerhouse that we effectively don't need allies, and truth be told it's amazing that you're acting like we're some po-dunk shitkicker 2nd world country or some shit. It's retarded and I can't believe that you or anyone else would believe that anyone is so stupid they'd buy this shit.
How many levels of cognitive dissonance are you at right now that you can unironically make this statement as if though I'm supposed to give a shit about it coming from you after your reasoning that americans dying in a sandy shithole that we should never have been involved with in the first place is "well more people die at home annually so..."?
Also I don't give a fuck how many non-american, non-english speaking people die in a third world shithole across the planet because I'm american. What part of "not mine and America's problem" did you not get?
Wow, people in Wall Street are pissed off and losing money. Boo hoo, the rich got a bit less rich. I love how when this talking point gets brought up it's never mentioned how yes, the economy will suffer while he negotiates, but it's better than being fucked in perpetuity on trade with China.
I'm not only good with both, I voted for both. Also a "vanity project"? "Stole money"? How is using military funds to fund a project that will increase our national security stealing?
You very clearly fucking haven't because you're literally advocating for the same shit just a different decade and with a different group.
BR55
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 8 Maj 2017
I think this part stuns me the most.
We are still in Afghanistan almost 20 years after 9/11.
These are the mistakes of the fucking present.
And yet he still weeps about the fate of some nobodies in some sandy hellhole half a world away.
Like what kind of person looks at the trillions of wasted dollars, the tens of thousands of dead or maimed physically or mentally and the utter destruction of our rights and says "lets try this again"?
- Dołączono
- 22 Mar 2019
The people on the right side of history, of course
- Dołączono
- 26 Lut 2019
Headlines:
Kurd SDF and Assad's SAA have appeared to have made a deal:
It also sound like the Kurds are going to be withdrawing from the north. And It very much looks like Assad is going to be taking over the entire SDF region. Possible military action against the Turks by the SDF-SAA.
Most villages of the north have been evacuated, and left without any garrisons whatsoever.
Map time:
With Action Clusters:
_
Tall Abyad/Akcakale and Suluk:
With Action Clusters:
New Tell Abyad (southern annex) has fallen. I have heard the the frontline has generally collapsed. Turk forces have been involved with the fighting.
Heavy fighting just outside of Suluk. I have no idea of the strength of the defense.
_
Ras al-Ayn and the western incursions.
Overview: Lots of border villages have been taken without fighting. They have linked up with the penetrating strike to the west.
With Action Cluster:
Ras al-Ayn Proper: I have been told that a withdrawal is in progress while they still have a front line.
With Action Clusters:
__
I have seen no other ground fighting reported.
Kurd SDF and Assad's SAA have appeared to have made a deal:
- Kobani and Manjib to be handed over to SAA. SAA forces are entering the region now.
- good possibility the entire SDF controlled territory becomes reintegrated with Assad's Syria.
- large amounts of SAA troops gathered on the southern border to exploit either SDF capitulation, or their weakened state.
It also sound like the Kurds are going to be withdrawing from the north. And It very much looks like Assad is going to be taking over the entire SDF region. Possible military action against the Turks by the SDF-SAA.
Most villages of the north have been evacuated, and left without any garrisons whatsoever.
Map time:
With Action Clusters:
_
Tall Abyad/Akcakale and Suluk:
With Action Clusters:
New Tell Abyad (southern annex) has fallen. I have heard the the frontline has generally collapsed. Turk forces have been involved with the fighting.
Heavy fighting just outside of Suluk. I have no idea of the strength of the defense.
_
Ras al-Ayn and the western incursions.
Overview: Lots of border villages have been taken without fighting. They have linked up with the penetrating strike to the west.
With Action Cluster:
Ras al-Ayn Proper: I have been told that a withdrawal is in progress while they still have a front line.
With Action Clusters:
__
I have seen no other ground fighting reported.
Załączniki
- Dołączono
- 1 Wrz 2019
Sky News Arabia says that the talks are taking place in a Russian Base (probably Latakia Province)
سكاي نيوز عربية-عاجل on Twitter
“مسؤول كردي يؤكد عقد محاثات بين قوات سوريا الديمقراطية والجيش السوري في قاعدة روسية في سوريا”
twitter.com