US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish alliesWhite House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan
www.theguardian.com
Julian Borger - October 7, 2019 The White House has given the green light to a Turkish offensive into northern Syria, moving US forces out of the area in an abrupt foreign policy change that will in effect abandon Washington’s longtime allies, the Kurds. Kurdish forces have spearheaded the campaign against Islamic State in the region, but the policy swerve, after a phone conversation between Donald Trump and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Sunday, means Turkey would take custody of captured Isis fighters, the White House said. It has also raised fears of fresh fighting between Turkey and Kurdish forces in Syria’s complex war now the US no longer acts as a buffer between the two sides. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said on Monday morning that their US partners had already begun withdrawing troops from areas along Turkey’s border. Footage aired on Kurdish news agency Hawar purportedly showed US armoured vehicles leaving positions near the towns of Ras al-Ayn and Tal Abyad in the border region. The SDF spokesman, Mustafa Bali, accused the US of leaving the area to “turn into a war zone”, adding that the SDF would “defend north-east Syria at all costs”. A statement from the Turkish foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, also early on Monday said that Ankara had “supported the territorial integrity of Syria since the beginning of the crisis and will continue to do so … [We are] determined to ensure survivability and security of Turkey by clearing the region from terrorists. We will contribute to bringing safety, peace and stability to Syria.” The decision represents the latest in a series of erratic moves by Trump, fighting impeachment at home, apparently taken without consultation with, or knowledge of, US diplomats dealing with Syria. Ruben Gallego, an Iraq war veteran and Democratic congressman from Arizona, tweeted: “Allowing Turkey to move into northern Syria is one of the most destabilising moves we can do in the Middle East. The Kurds will never trust America again. They will look for new alliances or independence to protect themselves.” In August, the US and Turkey came to an agreement to create a “safe zone” in northern Syria, by which the US-backed Kurdish-led SDF would pull back from the border. Ankara sees the SDF as indistinguishable from Kurdish insurgents inside Turkey and views it as a serious security threat. The safe zone deal was due to forestall a Turkish military offensive. In the White House statement issued just before 11 pm on Sunday, however, that agreement was not mentioned. “Today, President Donald J Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey by telephone,” the surprise statement said. “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the Isis territorial ‘caliphate’, will no longer be in the immediate area.” The statement suggested that in return for US acquiescence in a Turkish offensive, Erdoğan had assured Trump that Turkey would take over the detention of Isis militants captured by the SDF, on the battlefield. The custody of Europeans and other foreign fighters has long been one of Trump’s preoccupations, and he has lambasted European governments for not taking responsibility for their own nationals in Isis ranks. “The US government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured Isis fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused,” the White House statement continued. “The US will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all Isis fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial caliphate by the United States.” Syria experts warned that the US abandonment of the SDF would lead to another, new front in the eight-year Syrian conflict, and could push the Kurds into seeking an arrangement with the Assad regime in Damascus. Two weeks ago, at the UN general assembly, the US special envoy for the global coalition to defeat Isis, James Jeffrey, stressed that the US had an agreement with Turkey on a safe zone, in recognition of Ankara’s security concerns, that obviated the need for an Turkish incursion. “We listen to the Turks’ concerns. We try to respond to them when we can,” Jeffrey said. “And we have made it clear to Turkey at every level that any unilateral operation is not going to lead to an improvement in anyone’s security – not Turkey’s, not the people in the north-east, not the people around the world who feel threatened by Daesh [Isis], which is the basic purpose for our US military being in the north-east in the first place.” Another outcome of the Trump-Erdoğan call is that the Turkish leader is expected to visit the White House next month. |
War US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish allies - White House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan
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- Dołączono
- 22 Gru 2017
@BONE_Buddy That Kurdish VIP that the Turks got was the co-chairwoman of the Syrian Future Party Hervin Khalaf https://twitter.com/_Caki__/status/1183048346707083266 Archive: https://archive.fo/4PEoR
and the video of the alleged attack. https://mobile.twitter.com/ThomasDilok1/status/1183040384282353664 Archive: https://archive.fo/JmX2h
If they did get her they got a really high priory target right off the bat. They must have had some really good intelligence on this one.
Edit. Do to the fast pace and fog of war going on right now. I am going to have to push doubt on Hervins death. I am seeing reports that she was killed by artillery not Turkish backed forces.
and the video of the alleged attack. https://mobile.twitter.com/ThomasDilok1/status/1183040384282353664 Archive: https://archive.fo/JmX2h
If they did get her they got a really high priory target right off the bat. They must have had some really good intelligence on this one.
Edit. Do to the fast pace and fog of war going on right now. I am going to have to push doubt on Hervins death. I am seeing reports that she was killed by artillery not Turkish backed forces.
Ostatnio edytowane:
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
Abandoning our allies to die without warning is what I hate. Trump showed us that is just talk, that he would fold under pressure. He pulled out so suddenly no wonder Republicans and Democrats alike are putting him under fire. Trump says we defeated ISiS he lied to everyone at that rally. The Kurds hadn't even defeated ISIS just badly weakened them.
You keep telling me that we are going to be there forever, when many military analysis say that the way the US and the Kurds were fighting ISIS is a new form of combat that is not only effective but much cheaper than a full scale invasion. We had a thousand troops in Syria. We have more than three times that number in Spain and more that fifty times that in Japan. Why can't we bring those home?
Trump sent a bone chilling message to our enemies and our Allies that we are not to be trusted, we won't commit and we will throw you away once we get you to do all the fighting for us. It makes America look weak on the world stage.
Honka Honka Burning Love
In Clown World, the only god is the one who Honks.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 29 Sie 2019
I read it as the opposite, Trump went into office saying he would End these wars, and I bet he has been arguing with the Pentagon on getting a plan and a timeline on exit since he got in office. The Pentagon being MIAE Cucks sat there and durdled and made excuses as why "they can't leave yet, it would be a bad idea" for 3 years and Trump being a CEO got tired of having smoke blown up his told them "Fine, I gave you years to get it done your way and you didn't so we do it my way."
It is not a pretty way to get something done, but we have been quagmired in the Middle east for nearly 2 decades and have nothing to really show for it, at some point we are going to just have to let the Middle East sort it's own shit out for good or bad.
- Dołączono
- 3 Lis 2018
Where have you been?
The US already told people it couldn't be trusted again and again in the last few decades.
Lybia, Iraq, Ukraine....
How is it you are only now catching on that America is untrustworthy on the world stage?
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
The type of way we dealt with ISIS in Syria is working, its cheaper, less American personal in harms way. Compared to the occupation in Iraq. Just turning our back on the Middle East is not a good idea. Though we aren't really Trump deployed troops to Saudi Arabia just a few days ago. That is even more of a twist in the back to the Kurds we spent five years fighting with.
BR55
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 8 Maj 2017
No we had 50-100 troops there not a thousand.
And two there wouldn't even be an ISIS if we hadn't encouraged the Arab Spring or invaded Iraq.
And by the way did you read anything I said.
Supporting the Kurds is an Israel type commitment.
Everyone in the region despises them,
But hey Support Our Allies...Even if it's beyond all reason and will require a millennium of commitment.
And again how about we learn what Sunk Cost Fallacy is.
Let's just look at the fruits of interventionism shall we?
Iraq is still a bombed out shithole, Libya is in three different pieces, Afghanistan will almost certainly be at least partially ruled by the Taliban within the next five to ten years.
Idealism is the worst school of foreign policy imaginable because it leads to cluster fucks like this and people like you spouting cliches about "Our Word".
News flash. We have never kept our word. Just ask Eastern Europe at the end of WW2, ask the Chinese Nationalists, ask South Vietnam.
America isn't the "Good Guy" and it isn't our job to galavant around the word "fixing" everyones problems.
What ever happened to No Foreign Entanglements?
It's time we quit wasting our lives, money and time and get back to that principle.
- Dołączono
- 22 Gru 2017
Quick update as I hate sleep and have nothing else todo.
looks like Spi Tall Adyad is about to have its last road cut off. Besides going off road they better have fallen back or they are really fucked.
Remember this is a rapidly changing situation and this will probably be outa date in 3 hours.
looks like Spi Tall Adyad is about to have its last road cut off. Besides going off road they better have fallen back or they are really fucked.
Remember this is a rapidly changing situation and this will probably be outa date in 3 hours.
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
No, we had a thousand troops in Syria
Trump Says U.S. Troops Have Quit Syria. It’s Not True.
“I don’t know what the tactical rationale for this is,” says a former Pentagon official as Turkey assaults the Kurds whom the U.S. used to attack ISIS.
The US had little to do with Arab Spring, and you are telling me that people in North Africa and the Middle East are not entitled to the same rights enjoyed in democracies around the world?
What was the Arab Spring and what caused it to happen?
The wave of protests and civil unrest that swept the Arab world ushered in some changes, showing that peaceful demonstrations have power.
www.nationalgeographic.com
You are moving the goalpost.What the US did in Syria was far more effective and cheaper than deploying a large scale army. Years of building trust with Kurds ruined by one selfish man. The whole world knows Trump betrayed them and Trump alone.
The US has made bad calls and reckless decisions in the past but merely giving up and going home is worst than staying. The US has finally found a way to combat terrorism, do you want us to spend the next hundred years mopping over something that can't be undone (Vietnam, and the rest) because if we have time to complain about that lets complain about the War of 1812 too while we are at it. Those are then, this is now. We have to take risk.
Foreign Entanglements went out the door with WW1 and WW2. We are too deeply entrenched in the world affairs to simple go back to being an isolationist nation, we formed alliances with other nations it does not look good if we do not honor our commitments to the world. There is nothing Trump can do about it.
⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛
Ulrich Wessel fiel, doch tausend neu erstehen!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 17 Mar 2019
Archived the video here (archive.is won't do that) although it's sadly not very exciting.
This bitch was responsible for ethnic cleansing against both Syrian Arabs and Assyrians, and Syrian Kurds who were not disloyal. She got exactly what she deserved, whether by artillery or an ambush.
- Dołączono
- 22 Lut 2017
The Kurds have only ever fought for Kurdish interests. They are and always have been allies of convenience, not true allies.
If we declared war on, like, Chechnya, then we would request assistance from Canada and the UK and Australia etc, but we sure as fuck wouldn't be like "Oh, hey.. Kurds. You wanna come fight these Slavs with us?"
If we declared war on, like, Chechnya, then we would request assistance from Canada and the UK and Australia etc, but we sure as fuck wouldn't be like "Oh, hey.. Kurds. You wanna come fight these Slavs with us?"
- Dołączono
- 3 Sie 2019
Exactly this. The kurds arent 'allies', they're pawns. You actually think Kurdistan will ever exist? Its a pipedream used to keep violent, bloodthirsty Arabs killing the people we want them to kill. The US only supported them for as long as they were useful and right now they're not. Friends? dont make me laugh. There are no friends in that bloodsoaked hellscape, only people you intend to kill at a later date (except for our Greatest Ally of course. All hail israel etc)
BR55
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 8 Maj 2017
Incredible the Farms have an honest to god NeoCon posting here.No, we had a thousand troops in Syria
Trump Says U.S. Troops Have Quit Syria. It’s Not True.
“I don’t know what the tactical rationale for this is,” says a former Pentagon official as Turkey assaults the Kurds whom the U.S. used to attack ISIS.www.thedailybeast.com
The US had little to do with Arab Spring, and you are telling me that people in North Africa and the Middle East are not entitled to the same rights enjoyed in democracies around the world?
What was the Arab Spring and what caused it to happen?
The wave of protests and civil unrest that swept the Arab world ushered in some changes, showing that peaceful demonstrations have power.
You are moving the goalpost.What the US did in Syria was far more effective and cheaper than deploying a large scale army. Years of building trust with Kurds ruined by one selfish man. The whole world knows Trump betrayed them and Trump alone.
The US has made bad calls and reckless decisions in the past but merely giving up and going home is worst than staying. The US has finally found a way to combat terrorism, do you want us to spend the next hundred years mopping over something that can't be undone (Vietnam, and the rest) because if we have time to complain about that lets complain about the War of 1812 too while we are at it. Those are then, this is now. We have to take risk.
Foreign Entanglements went out the door with WW1 and WW2. We are too deeply entrenched in the world affairs to simple go back to being an isolationist nation, we formed alliances with other nations it does not look good if we do not honor our commitments to the world. There is nothing Trump can do about it.
You're tunneling visioning on ISIS.
It's not about ISIS, it's about the fact that supporting the Kurd's means creating another Israel.
A permanently embattled ethnostate surrounded by enemies dragging America into a new conflict every time one of their neighbors sneezes.
By the ways the Kurd's are literal commies, the SDF name is a brilliant ploy to get support from chickenhawks like you, and allies of pure convenience.
Ghenghis Khan could rise from the grave with his hordes at his side and raze the middle east and the Kurd's would side with him if he gave them their precious Kurdistan.
And you still have not answered my questions.
How do you justify the miserable failure of the interventions of the last 20 years?
What is your vaunted "long term plan" for Syria. Why do we even need a "long term plan"?
What benefit do any these stupid crusades give to us?
You say that people have a right to "Freedom and Democracy", that belief is pure Whig History by the way, but doesn't Syria have a right to it's sovereignty and the third of it's territory we are illegally occupying?
And I'm curious what your opinion on the Iraqi Kurds rising up was?
Was refusing to back an independence move in nominal ally Iraq a "selfish" move by Trump as well?
I'm not going to get any answers of course.
Like all chickenhawk interventionists you'll spout some cliches about America being the light of the world and muh freedom and democracy and then like a gambling addict say that we just need to hold on another year or 2 or 100 and then the End of History will finally come about.
We've finally cracked the code the War on Terror will be won just you wait and see!
I'd tell you to talk to the people who have lost everything on you're little crusades but you'd probably just preach at them like you're doing right now.
- Dołączono
- 2 Paź 2019
there is one road at jadla that is still available straight into the city. however it has most likely been bombed to shit by the Turkish Air Force.
I would also like to mention that the city of tal abyad is now being stormed from the west.
looks like the Kurds might seriously be fucked
Załączniki
- Dołączono
- 3 Sie 2019
Justice for the Assyrians IMO. Deliciously ironic justice.
- Dołączono
- 2 Paź 2019
- Dołączono
- 21 Mar 2019
Thank you Canadian state media, very cool!
- Dołączono
- 2 Paź 2019
>cbc in iraq
in all seriousness the recent assaults over the past hour look to be the second wave of assaults on the 2 towns. looks to be the turks might come out on top of this
in all seriousness the recent assaults over the past hour look to be the second wave of assaults on the 2 towns. looks to be the turks might come out on top of this
Just Some Other Guy
kiwifarms.net
- Dołączono
- 25 Mar 2018
Imagine thinking countries around the world don't reneg constantly on 'allies' whenever it suits them. Only when the US does it do we get "But what about our global image?!". Our military and economy take care of that. I mean who really cares what the ME thinks about us anyways? I'd think our "reputation" is beyond fixing there since many years ago, so why does it matter? Does anybody think that any actually important allies are going to care that we dumped some ME nobodies?
- Dołączono
- 8 Lip 2019
ISIS has not been defeated, things can't proceeded until they are dealt with. Which is now a lot harder since Trump just gave up on the Kurds to appease Erdogan which lead to the Kurds having to shift their attention from ISIS to fight Turkey giving ISIS time to regroup.
You are talking about the past, there is nothing that can be done about 20 years of bad foreign policy.