The Elder Scrolls

I fucking despised ESO. As an MMO, it was awful. I could make a massive list of all the things I hated, both as a game and as a work in the TES series, but the post would be as long as an OP.

The biggest legacy ESO has for me is that it damaged the TES lore probably beyond repair. They made so many retcons or dumb additions it's staggering, but, unlike Bethesda, they touched every part of worldbuilding rather than just one province. Some of these choices fundamentally undermine interesting lore and damages the internal logic of the world.

Let's take the Altmer as an example: Most Altmer are snobby pricks, but the lore gave a good explanation as to why they have this attitude. They have a lot of cultural, historical and religious reasons for this, but there was another really important and arguably the biggest aspect: their lifespan. We never got a solid number in the old lore, but the closest was Barenziah saying that elves have a thousand-year lifespan, and other lore also implies a very long lifespan. Using this, let's take an example of a gifted painter in Altmeri society. This painter starts to paint when he is a young man; his tutor has been painting for hundreds of years. When he goes to look at other works of art, they have been painted by masters who have painted for hundreds of years maybe even a thousand years. When he goes to sketch a building as a reference, it, likewise, has been made by builders and architects who have gone through a similar process. By the time our Altmer painter is 300 years old (comparative to a 24-year-old in terms of lifespan), he is still a learner in his culture; he has a long way to go to become a master. If this Altmer were to be shown a painting by a gifted human "master" who was 60, it would look like a deviant art post by a 16-year-old. It would be laughable. This applies to everything when comparing Man to the Altmer. Would you not be a smug prick and think you are better than a culture if the absolute unironic artistic zenith of that culture was Tails Gets Trolled?

ESO says nope, they mostly live to 200, maybe 300 if they are lucky, ruining this really interesting piece of lore that shows how a long elven lifespan would have a unique effect on a society.

That's just one of the uncountable changes made.

TL;DR old lore: Altmer are smug pricks because their long life span makes the races of Man look like retarded toddlers in comparison. ESO said, 'Fuck that', and made them have double the lifespan of Men.

Now you could say that Bethesda can just ignore the ESO lore and problem solved, but it isn't. TES has two lores running in parallel. The hard lore (the actual lore written and spoken in-game) and the soft lore (what people/communities think the lore says, fan theories, extra notes and out-of-game writings made by the developers). The soft lore has many times impacted the hard lore, and ESO has absolutely infected the soft lore to the point where it is impossible to excise. Most people who are interested in the lore have picked up ESO slop without even realising it, even if they want to avoid it. If you want to see for yourself, go to UESP and search a race, province or well-known character; read it, and after you are done, look at how much is sourced from ESO. In a lot of cases it's over 80%.
 
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Money, Time, and a love for it.

You need all 3 for that. I don't think anyone in AAA has a love for anything they do anymore. Companies don't want to invest the money into it because its not multiplayer milking their playerbase. The closest we got was Avowed in terms of AA/AAA and it was a fucking joke and embarrassment. No one there loved what they were doing which is why arrows didn't have gravity or stick into walls.
Why lockpicks were just a timer instead of a game.
Why NPCs just stood still instead of going about their date.

No one fucking cared.
Also technology Bethesda is/was sitting on a bunch IP and Industrial Knowledge(basically how to go from a technical package/design to finished product) and could make these massive open world games relatively easily because all of the infrastructure and knowledge were there.
 
I'm not enough of a grognard to play Daggerfall but the cover art is rad as hell. How did we fall so far?

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Louise Sandoval made the DF cover art by the way. That art style is largely a lot lost art (heh), everything else is just...generic. Look at peak John Blanche (ah fuck just found out he died last month), Ian Miller, Frank Frazetta, Clyde Caldwell, list goes on. I don't know what to call that mostly 70's/80's art style, Pulp Fantasy? Yeah you don't see that anymore (the march of time kills all), but you can bet your sweet ass it was awesome even now. Now everything is digital and a lot of the soul is lost.
Well, mostly. There's a lot of fantastic digital art out there, hell some even try to capture the feel of drawn art such as the ones I've mentioned, it's just not often. I think I talked about this before (probably in the TTRPG thread) but eh.
and yet there was a sense of soul that persisted though out their games
Yeah, his first name was Jeremy. :smug: Fitting that a soulless company would kick out a guy who's name is soul and put his soul into their Elder Scrolls (post-Daggerfall) soundtracks.
If this Altmer were to be shown a painting by a gifted human "master" who was 60, it would look like a deviant art post by a 16-year-old. It would be laughable. This applies to everything when comparing Man to the Altmer. Would you not be a smug prick and think you are better than a culture if the absolute unironic artistic zenith of that culture was Tails Gets Trolled?
Reminds me of that one episode of Futurama where Fry and the Professor go to planet Vinci, the old fucker is the smartest person on Earth but compared to Vinci's inhabitants, he's practically a drooling retard. Funnily enough these inhabitants have long life spans like pre-ESO Altmer since Leonardo da Vinci is nearly 2000 years old.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
Reminds me of that one episode of Futurama where Fry and the Professor go to planet Vinci, the old fucker is the smartest person on Earth but compared to Vinci's inhabitants, he's practically a drooling retard. Funnily enough these inhabitants have long life spans like pre-ESO Altmer since Leonardo da Vinci is nearly 2000 years old.
iirc the crazy mage that lives in an iceberg in Skyrim says something along the lines of "I am clever among Men, but compared to the stupidest Dwemer, I am an ignorant child". The Dwemer had intelligence as their highest virtue in addition to their long lives and were able to invent robotics, steam power and an artificial god. For Altmer, perfection is their highest virtue so imagine a culture that believes that you have to do everything perfectly and can live to be 1000 years old. The pocket guide to empire mentions that Alinor was built so that the windows and glass of the city's giant towers perfectly line up so that as the light from the sun passes through them it turns the city into a giant work of art via a mirage of colors. In ESO it looks like Disney land/ generic high elf city #23512
 
ESO says nope, they mostly live to 200, maybe 300 if they are lucky, ruining this really interesting piece of lore that shows how a long elven lifespan would have a unique effect on a society.


Not looking to lore sperg, I have done enough of that in the past 30 years about this universe. This "fact" is often ignored by players or used as a 'that's for the average elf not using magic to extend their lives', but anyone knowing how the Altmer interact in their culture/the world at large would know that any Altmer worth their salt would extend their lives magically.

To give an example of your point about the infection that is ESO lore mixed with the main series:
If it helps on this particular gripe, there is a Psijic character in ESO named Lilatha who in this book supposedly was an initiate under Sotha Sil. That would make her well over 500, so there is precedence in the game for long age. But we know that ES books are not reliable.

ESO devs have also claimed that every DLC and massive storyline which has been released happened in little over a decade span of time. Lol. Stoopid!
 
I could make a massive list of all the things I hated, both as a game and as a work in the TES series, but the post would be as long as an OP.
I would be interested to hear your full list of grievances if you have the time, both gameplay and lore-wise.

What's your favourite EZ way to make money in Morrowind (and other games if you want)? I've found out that you can easily steal Ordinator helmets, which are worth 4000 each, from the Ordinator barracks. There's an empty room with a level 10 locked chest that has them. If you get telekinesis, you can also easily snatch them from neighbouring rooms. Then just pay an enchanter to make you an item that gives you 100 mercantile and you'll never need money ever again. Although it's not as much, you can steal books from the secret library, there's a whole row of "Vampires of Vvardenfell II", each worth 400 gold, as well as the regular library. Guard towers tend to be be surprisingly not well guarded, making the armour easy to steal as well.
 
I would be interested to hear your full list of grievances if you have the time, both gameplay and lore-wise.

What's your favourite EZ way to make money in Morrowind (and other games if you want)? I've found out that you can easily steal Ordinator helmets, which are worth 4000 each, from the Ordinator barracks. There's an empty room with a level 10 locked chest that has them. If you get telekinesis, you can also easily snatch them from neighbouring rooms. Then just pay an enchanter to make you an item that gives you 100 mercantile and you'll never need money ever again. Although it's not as much, you can steal books from the secret library, there's a whole row of "Vampires of Vvardenfell II", each worth 400 gold, as well as the regular library. Guard towers tend to be be surprisingly not well guarded, making the armour easy to steal as well.


I know you didn't ask me but...

collecting grand soul gems and summoning golden saints to soul trap them. Over and over. Thats 80k. Problem is, to make this huge amount of gold work, your best bet is to find the Mudcrab merchant (good luck! don't kill him!) and sell him a bunch of 8k-10k items, one at a time. You will need to rest for his gold to refresh, a lot. Save frequently, as sleeping there can trigger attacks. Once the Mudcrab merchant has a selection of goods you've sold him, and you have a enough gold, you can start a loop of buying the items you just sold (the crab buys at base values), working up the crab's bank, then selling the singular 80k gem to regain your money. Then you are back on the loop of selling the other items, and then your bags are clear, you're loaded for enchanting/spellmaking. You can find an example of this gem in the mages guild, upstairs, in Balmora. It has a winged twilight in it.

Doing this on an original xbox (Morrowind on the xbox, on loading screens, would subtly restart the xbox to free up memory. The loading screens....)
 
The more interesting question is how to make less money in Morrowind, lol.
I've searched through the mods, but most of them are meh. The most interesting one I've seen is the one that gives weight to gold, so you can't carry a lot of it. However, it was a little broken when it came to stacks of gold lying around in the world. Something about picking them up - the weight calculation wasn't correct.

I ended up not installing the mod and just not selling that much stuff.
 
The more interesting question is how to make less money in Morrowind, lol.
I've searched through the mods, but most of them are meh. The most interesting one I've seen is the one that gives weight to gold, so you can't carry a lot of it. However, it was a little broken when it came to stacks of gold lying around in the world. Something about picking them up - the weight calculation wasn't correct.

I ended up not installing the mod and just not selling that much stuff.
Is rejecting currency altogether and stealing everything instead a viable option?
 
Is rejecting currency altogether and stealing everything instead a viable option?
To be honest, my playstyle is such that I don't need money at all. I only buy spells(no other way to obtain them) and repair equipment(don't want to carry all those hammers around).

It's just that I really like the financial struggle, and it's kinda lame when there is none of it.
 
To be honest, my playstyle is such that I don't need money at all. I only buy spells(no other way to obtain them) and repair equipment(don't want to carry all those hammers around).

It's just that I really like the financial struggle, and it's kinda lame when there is none of it.
Maybe some day someone will make a sales tax mod to make things more hardcore.
 
The more interesting question is how to make less money in Morrowind, lol.
I've searched through the mods, but most of them are meh. The most interesting one I've seen is the one that gives weight to gold, so you can't carry a lot of it. However, it was a little broken when it came to stacks of gold lying around in the world. Something about picking them up - the weight calculation wasn't correct.

I ended up not installing the mod and just not selling that much stuff.


Once you are confident enough to go into daedric ruins, the gold just flows if you are quick enough to loot dying daedra who can hold weapons. Glass weaps will start dropping for you too. Making gold in morrowind is extremely easy and there is no cap.
 
I know you didn't ask me but...
That second part was a general question for anyone to answer so don't worry about it.
collecting grand soul gems and summoning golden saints to soul trap them
A bit unrelated, but filling petty and lesser soul gems really feels like it would be some sort of job plebs can do in the ES universe. The only requirement for it is you either know how to cast soul trap or you have a scroll or enchanted item that can do it.
 
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