Debate user The_Cowcel about incels.

[Gravekeeper's Vassal]

My self esteem is that of a grown man who is routinely lifemogged by young teens

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read on this site.

 

[Duke Nukem]

@The_Cowcel I don't even know where to begin. I don't know your living situation, employment status, or what you look like. But with some of the stuff you're posting here, none of that matters if you're being authentic and not just trolling for suckers.

Personally, I am an antisocial sperg and quite introverted. My parents have been married for decades. Still are. That was my model for a good relationship, despite our differences and disagreements. But it simply never happened. Nowadays I just live as if women don't exist. You should try it. No ego, no standards, no expectations.

I'm honestly more pissed off about the fact that I'll never have the middle class existence my parents did. I'm not sure what people under 40 nowadays are supposed to even aspire to anymore but that's a discussion for a different day.

Perhaps you're a virgin and you're bitter because you haven't gotten laid yet. Try downloading Tinder and buying a box of condoms. Do some swiping. Don't expect anything right away. Take whatever you can get, because spergs like us sure as hell aren't getting the nines and tens.

Honestly, I'd be plenty happy with an average or below average looking woman if we share enough values. You should probably aim even lower because you sound like an intolerable autistic incel who never showers.

Dating isn't about love and friendship, it's a war. And your ego is its biggest casualty.

 

[Mamimi]

I feel he is coping with the work part. While working sucks, it also gives purpose. That is a man thing, and him not wanting to work at all is leaving him miserable as fuck.

I kinda understand where the tumblr commies are coming from when they say "I don't dream of labor." I have a fulfilling job with prospects for advancement and I like my coworkers, but I wish I wasn't chained to a desk for 40+ hours a week, and if I had nothing else going on in my life I'd be pretty annoyed that I only exist to work.

But I've dated guys who legitimately HATE their jobs and don't have the ability or desire to get a better one, and that shit goes off the rails real fast because they're always angry and tired and you're expected to be their therapist. He needs to find something else to make working seem worth it. Expecting a girlfriend to motivate him to do the things that would actually attract a woman is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Penis Drager 2.0]

The rhetoric about "getting a woman" and claims to being willing to date anyone who'll give him the time of day indicates they think of a potential girlfriend as an accessory meant to serve his needs rather than a whole person with their own desires and motivations.

I haven't read any of his long ass rants but caught a glimpse of this right here:

The ability to get a woman it crucial to the ability to be fulfilled in life

It's not even "the woman" he wants. It's the social validation that he thinks comes with the "ability to get" one. It's an ego thing to him.

Bro's a dead ringer for Elliot Roger: a natural born narcissist who's too inept to generate the facade his ego desperately craves. Imagine every waking moment of your life being a constant reminder that you are vastly inferior at the one thing you have inextricably attached your sense of self-worth to.
Our boy's living in a hell of his own making and he can't conceive that he's the architect even while holding the hammer and boards.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Expecting a girlfriend to motivate him to do the things that would actually attract a woman is putting the cart before the horse.

"But doing these things isn't a guarantee I'll get a girlfriend so it's not worth trying."

I wonder how old this guy actually is. Barely old enough to drink alcohol legally at most.

I haven't read any of his long ass rants but caught a glimpse of this right here:

It's not even "the woman" he wants. It's the social validation that he thinks comes with the "ability to get" one. It's an ego thing to him.

Bro's a dead ringer for Elliot Roger: a natural born narcissist who's too inept to generate the facade his ego desperately craves. Imagine every waking moment of your life being a constant reminder that you are vastly inferior at the one thing you have inextricably attached your sense of self-worth to.
Our boy's living in a hell of his own making and he can't conceive that he's the architect even while holding the hammer and boards.

He reminds me of those goofball coming of age movies where the nerdy male protagonist lands the girl of his dreams just by not being a complete douchebag. Except he can't even get that right. Judd Apatow movies aren't really a good indicator of reality when it comes to dating or sex.

Speaking of Judd Apatow, he's probably scared to death of the prospect of being a 40 year old virgin. I get it, a lot of guys go through a stage where they think that no girl would ever consider them for anything. But most of us grow out of it.

@The_Cowcel Don't worry about having a relationship right now. You might have to just throw your standards out the window and fuck a gross fat pig with no self-esteem. Of course, you're probably going to forget to use a condom and end up getting AIDS so I don't really recommend this.

 

[Drip Torch]

First thing, looked at the join date.
Was not disappointed.

 

[The_Cowcel]

If you're so unstable that you are unable to make or maintain any relationships, not only romantic ones but friendly and familial as well, that may be a sign the issues stem from you and the way you're approaching all of your relationships. The only type of women you will attract are the ones similarly unstable if you get any bites at all because while people cannot tell your internal workings at a glance even a quick conversation can bring up red flags.

A lot of the problems I have with friendly and familial relationships all stem from me trying to get help leaving my isolation but ironically that often ends up driving others away due to my lack of interest in anything and my lack of social interactions when I do go out.

Imagine all of the women on earth dissappeared never to return. What would you do with your life if that happenned? It doesn't have to be some grand philosophy just simple shit. What would you do to pass the time, how would you interact with people, how would you calm yourself, etc. If there were absolutely no women on earth and never would be, you're just here alone with a bunch of dudes and nobody to impress, no woman to "win over" no teens to compete with for it, no standards to match, none of that. Just you. What would you do then?

Whatever the answer to that question is, do that.

I'd basically be doing the same things I am now minus any attempt at self improvement or to force myself to go out. Sounds like a pretty pathetic life and I don't see how giving up on life is meant to help me with anything.

If you find even platonic interpersonal relationships "exhausting," why do you think a romantic relationship would be any different? Do you think there will be less expected of you?
Something tells me you're gonna absolutely hate having a girlfriend once the high from the first night together wears off.

When I go out it's usually alone and I just stay to myself so it's not even interpersonal relationships I find exhausting, just the seeming pointlessness of it all and knowing that I'm just going through the motions because I've been told to, not because I actually want to or expect it to work.

Found a pic of OP

Nah, I don't have the confidence to go out with my gut hanging out and a "want woman" man bra. On the topic of Chris I actually think he's a reasonably good counter to the confidence cope, he had tons of unwarranted confidence but women still treated him like the unwanted creep he is.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read on this site.

You won't find any denial from me.

Perhaps you're a virgin and you're bitter because you haven't gotten laid yet. Try downloading Tinder and buying a box of condoms. Do some swiping. Don't expect anything right away. Take whatever you can get, because spergs like us sure as hell aren't getting the nines and tens.

That's basically what I've been doing.

It's not even "the woman" he wants. It's the social validation that he thinks comes with the "ability to get" one. It's an ego thing to him.

Self validation, not social validation, if I can get a woman once then chances are I could get more, not only that but it would provide a networking opportunity to start building a social circle of my own. I'm still stuck trying for that initial success though.

Bro's a dead ringer for Elliot Roger: a natural born narcissist who's too inept to generate the facade his ego desperately craves. Imagine every waking moment of your life being a constant reminder that you are vastly inferior at the one thing you have inextricably attached your sense of self-worth to.
Our boy's living in a hell of his own making and he can't conceive that he's the architect even while holding the hammer and boards.

I agree it's a living hell, but I never made the choice to build it.

I wonder how old this guy actually is. Barely old enough to drink alcohol legally at most.

nearly 30, age is making me even more desperate as I want to make the most of my youth because I know it's be best opportunity I have to get a woman.

First thing, looked at the join date.
Was not disappointed.

TBF with the spergouts I have it's just good practice to not stay on one account too long and to rotate sites I have an active presence on.

 

[Wilson The Ball]

If we're to believe the assertion that it is the fault of society, then what is society to do? Simply forcing women out of the workplace and economy won't work, they contribute too much via spending. Can't take away their votes either since politicians rely on appealing to women for their votes. I'd argue that like job programs you'd need some sort of thing equivalent to that for these various problems that Incels and Femcels have. You might say that's State Therapy, but most of the time it's not mental illness it's mostly a matter of ineptitude in social and educational departments. How many people do their own taxes anymore compared to say twenty years ago?

I don't necessarily believe it's the fault of society that the sexless are present even more than they were before, nor is it their own fault because just hand waving away people as "bad" because you don't like what they have to say is just as stupid as a majority of Incels and Femcels are. Somewhere in your life something happened that made you like this. You were at some point a happy person. Personally I blame the Internet and think it's coming censorship will fix a lot of these issues.

 

[draggs]

I don't see how giving up on life is meant to help me with anything.

Blaming society and women and random kiwi farmers is you giving up though. You're putting the cart before the horse (many such cases) anyway, romance isn't going to enable you to improve yourself/your life. Improving yourself/your life will enable romance

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

If you find even platonic interpersonal relationships "exhausting," why do you think a romantic relationship would be any different? Do you think there will be less expected of you?
Something tells me you're gonna absolutely hate having a girlfriend once the high from the first night together wears off.

Incels want a GF like a six year old wants a puppy. They think it's all about the fun parts without any of the commitment and compromise required

A lot of the problems I have with friendly and familial relationships all stem from me trying to get help leaving my isolation but ironically that often ends up driving others away due to my lack of interest in anything and my lack of social interactions when I do go out.

Nobody else can "get" you a girlfriend, that's like begging someone to give you a hammer and expecting a house to magically construct itself. I'm putting it into that analogy because clearly you see other people as tools to get what you want, which is seemingly one of your biggest issues. Other people have their own priorities beyond fixing things for someone who clearly gives into self defeating logic and it's really not a flaw of theirs that they gave up on you.

Inceldom is deranged at its core because of how self defeating it is. Every second you spend online seething about women could be better spent on education, hobbies, making money or anything fucking else that makes you a more attractive prospect to women, but you choose to wallow in misery instead.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Personally I blame the Internet and think it's coming censorship will fix a lot of these issues.

Censorship of the internet is what has lead to me becoming increasingly isolated. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do outside, everything is expensive and boring. Whenever I go out I'm just trapped as a passive observer in my own life.

Blaming society and women and random kiwi farmers is you giving up though. You're putting the cart before the horse (many such cases) anyway, romance isn't going to enable you to improve yourself/your life. Improving yourself/your life will enable romance

I've been improving myself near constantly without success. Am I meant to just suffer silently without seeking any sort of outside input?

Nobody else can "get" you a girlfriend, that's like begging someone to give you a hammer and expecting a house to magically construct itself. I'm putting it into that analogy because clearly you see other people as tools to get what you want, which is seemingly one of your biggest issues. Other people have their own priorities beyond fixing things for someone who clearly gives into self defeating logic and it's really not a flaw of theirs that they gave up on you.

I don't think it's that unreasonable to want some direction, advice and the ability to bounce ideas off of someone. I'm stuck driving everyone off because of my desperation for connection.

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

I don't think it's that unreasonable to want some direction, advice and the ability to bounce ideas off of someone. I'm stuck driving everyone off because of my desperation for connection.

Go to a therapist and stop treating everyone around you like one. Clearly you have depression of some sort and whining online does not help.

 

[draggs]

I've been improving myself near constantly without success. Am I meant to just suffer silently without seeking any sort of outside input?

Then there are other things you're not improving, that you need to improve to succeed. I don't see you suffering silently, I see you getting MATI

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

Then there are other things you're not improving, that you need to improve to succeed. I don't see you suffering silently, I see you getting MATI

The manosphere has a really stupid and shallow view of "self improvement" where it's only like going to the gym/looksmaxxing type crap and consuming a cringey checklist of moid approved books/movies/hobbies/etc.

So many incels follow these stupid cookie cutter "self improvement" regimens and still are miserable shells because it's not who they actually are, it's still just using a list of social standards (prescribed by moronic internet grifters, of all people) to patch over the void inside them, when actually filling it in requires the kind of emotional depth, empathy, and introspection that they keep getting told is gay and feminine.

 

[Penis Drager 2.0]

I don't think it's that unreasonable to want some direction, advice and the ability to bounce ideas off of someone. I'm stuck driving everyone off because of my desperation for connection.

Nigger, people in this thread have been letting you "bounce ideas off" them and many have given you legitimate advice. You reject all of it because it all requires that you change something about yourself. That's just too much of an ask for someone so wrapped up in their ego such as you.

This isn't some strategy game where you can brainstorm ideas and unlock new tactics or some shit. These are regular ass people you're talking about here. If you're a revolting asshole with no interesting qualities, nobody's going to be attracted to you.
Fix your broken ass mind first. A girl isn't going to fix it for you.

 

[Rango Dango]

im an ugly motherfucker and still have a girlfriend seems like a skill issue on your part OP

Take whatever you can get, because spergs like us sure as hell aren't getting the nines and tens.

if you truly love a woman she'll always be a ten in your eyes no matter how she looks like

 

[AMHOLIO]

I am going to tell you what happens if you, personally, will get a girlfriend as you are.

You will be joyful, at least for the first couple of weeks. Then, you will start to wonder: why? Why is she attracted to me? What is she looking for? How do I keep measuring up against other men to keep her? When will she leave? You'll start to be consumed by these thoughts. You'll let them take you over. You'll become more desperate or more controlling. The woman, after reassuring she won't leave you for 15 times in 2 weeks, realizes she can't be your therapist and fix you. Or she is afraid of the increased control over her, or jealousy of others you express, and even if she tries to keep you from obsessing, the thoughts come back and you're back to obsessing and demanding things like her not seeing any male, ever, or shaming her into wearing the most covering outfit you can make her wear (even if she dresses modestly already). She will leave you out of fear or being in a situation she has to constantly appease someone over and over every minute of the day, someone who just doesn't trust her.


This will happen because it isn't about the woman, as you said. It is about the reassurance to yourself that you can get a woman. You're trying to prove this to yourself, you're fixated to the point you're defending a domestic terrorist because it covers up your own insecurities about yourself. You know it isn't about the woman herself, you know it's you. As soon as you manage to get a woman, your new goal is panicking to keep that woman, and the self hatred and self obsessive cycle starts again because you didn't fix your brain, you applied a bandage to a broken leg. Consider defeating the dragon within yourself, @The_Cowcel , your obsession with hating yourself will become your downfall in due time if not.

 

[JayseeDenton]

I'd basically be doing the same things I am now minus any attempt at self improvement or to force myself to go out. Sounds like a pretty pathetic life and I don't see how giving up on life is meant to help me with anything.

This is the problem. You've equated having a life with having a relationship. I'm not suggesting you give up on life but to "giving up" on trying to get a girl. I know it sounds insane but trust me, try it for a year and see what happens.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Censorship of the internet is what has lead to me becoming increasingly isolated. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do outside, everything is expensive and boring. Whenever I go out I'm just trapped as a passive observer in my own life.

I've been improving myself near constantly without success. Am I meant to just suffer silently without seeking any sort of outside input?

I don't think it's that unreasonable to want some direction, advice and the ability to bounce ideas off of someone. I'm stuck driving everyone off because of my desperation for connection.

I completely understand where you're coming from. As I said, my parents have been married for decades and for a while, I saw that as the model I should follow. But of course it didn't work out that way. In fact, a lot of us under 40 have been denied the opportunities that previous generations have taken for granted. Some of that leaks into the dating aspect.

The reality is, it probably won't ever happen if you're past the age of 30 and have little to no experience. Nobody is going to want to date a 30+ year old autistic man who doesn't have much to bring to the table, and especially one who rants on internet forums about his lack of "getting some."

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

if you truly love a woman she'll always be a ten in your eyes no matter how she looks like

As a 30+ year old autistic man who loves trains and Sonic, I suppose I can't really expect to do better than a homeless fentanyl junkie slut who lives in the dumpster behind McDonald's.

I am going to tell you what happens if you, personally, will get a girlfriend as you are.

You will be joyful, at least for the first couple of weeks. Then, you will start to wonder: why? Why is she attracted to me? What is she looking for? How do I keep measuring up against other men to keep her? When will she leave? You'll start to be consumed by these thoughts. You'll let them take you over. You'll become more desperate or more controlling. The woman, after reassuring she won't leave you for 15 times in 2 weeks, realizes she can't be your therapist and fix you. Or she is afraid of the increased control over her, or jealousy of others you express, and even if she tries to keep you from obsessing, the thoughts come back and you're back to obsessing and demanding things like her not seeing any male, ever, or shaming her into wearing the most covering outfit you can make her wear (even if she dresses modestly already). She will leave you out of fear or being in a situation she has to constantly appease someone over and over every minute of the day, someone who just doesn't trust her.


This will happen because it isn't about the woman, as you said. It is about the reassurance to yourself that you can get a woman. You're trying to prove this to yourself, you're fixated to the point you're defending a domestic terrorist because it covers up your own insecurities about yourself. You know it isn't about the woman herself, you know it's you. As soon as you manage to get a woman, your new goal is panicking to keep that woman, and the self hatred and self obsessive cycle starts again because you didn't fix your brain, you applied a bandage to a broken leg. Consider defeating the dragon within yourself, @The_Cowcel , your obsession with hating yourself will become your downfall in due time if not.

And even worse, she'll leave you for someone far worse than you as a final "fuck you" to your one and only chance of having a relationship.

This is the problem. You've equated having a life with having a relationship. I'm not suggesting you give up on life but to "giving up" on trying to get a girl. I know it sounds insane but trust me, try it for a year and see what happens.

He's probably watched too many Judd Apatow movies to take honest life advice. But just in case, he should probably give up for good.

At the end of the day, @The_Cowcel, you're just a hopeless sperg. Like me.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Whatever I can get really. I'm not expecting much.

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

I don't see much to figure out about myself, I know what I want I just can't seem to get it. If getting a girlfriend "isn't for me" then what am I left with? basically nothing.

Go to a therapist and stop treating everyone around you like one. Clearly you have depression of some sort and whining online does not help.

I recently started therapy again and I've spent years going in the past. None of my past therapists were ever able to actually help me with any of my problems, they just wore down me down with the same sort of advice I'd heard everywhere else about finding something I enjoy that puts me around other people, but because there's nothing I enjoy I usually just go to whatever kind of group I'm told to and end up barely socialize if at all. I go back to therapy and tell the therapist how it went and he either says to keep trying or try something else and regardless of what I do the results stay the same. Just wasted time and money without any connections made.

Then there are other things you're not improving, that you need to improve to succeed. I don't see you suffering silently, I see you getting MATI

Like what? I'm open to improving things if I can see them being a problem.

Nigger, people in this thread have been letting you "bounce ideas off" them and many have given you legitimate advice. You reject all of it because it all requires that you change something about yourself. That's just too much of an ask for someone so wrapped up in their ego such as you.

This isn't some strategy game where you can brainstorm ideas and unlock new tactics or some shit. These are regular ass people you're talking about here. If you're a revolting asshole with no interesting qualities, nobody's going to be attracted to you.
Fix your broken ass mind first. A girl isn't going to fix it for you.

One of the common theme I've hard from people about dating is that I somehow need to be "interesting" but I'm never told what to do to become interesting while being wanted? What interests could I get to appeal to women?

You will be joyful, at least for the first couple of weeks. Then, you will start to wonder: why? Why is she attracted to me? What is she looking for? How do I keep measuring up against other men to keep her? When will she leave? You'll start to be consumed by these thoughts. You'll let them take you over. You'll become more desperate or more controlling. The woman, after reassuring she won't leave you for 15 times in 2 weeks, realizes she can't be your therapist and fix you. Or she is afraid of the increased control over her, or jealousy of others you express, and even if she tries to keep you from obsessing, the thoughts come back and you're back to obsessing and demanding things like her not seeing any male, ever, or shaming her into wearing the most covering outfit you can make her wear (even if she dresses modestly already). She will leave you out of fear or being in a situation she has to constantly appease someone over and over every minute of the day, someone who just doesn't trust her.

And? what would the alternative be? Doing nothing at all to keep her from leaving me once a better option comes along? Of course I'd be doing everything I could to keep her and to get rid of outside influences that could turn her against me or seduce her. I can't imagine ever trusting a woman fully, they just have so much more leverage in relationships now days due to their ability to find another man at the drop of a hat meanwhile I've dedicated my life to getting a woman without so much as a first date. Is it really that unreasonable for me to be paranoid, especially given that people tend to like me less the better they get to know me?

This will happen because it isn't about the woman, as you said. It is about the reassurance to yourself that you can get a woman. You're trying to prove this to yourself, you're fixated to the point you're defending a domestic terrorist because it covers up your own insecurities about yourself. You know it isn't about the woman herself, you know it's you. As soon as you manage to get a woman, your new goal is panicking to keep that woman, and the self hatred and self obsessive cycle starts again because you didn't fix your brain, you applied a bandage to a broken leg. Consider defeating the dragon within yourself, @The_Cowcel , your obsession with hating yourself will become your downfall in due time if not.

Don't most men try to avoid their woman leaving them and try to preemptively find replacements for if and when that does happen? Women have very little reason to be loyal now days knowing how easily they can get a new man.

I don't hate myself, I'm just lonely and desire opposite sex affection.

This is the problem. You've equated having a life with having a relationship. I'm not suggesting you give up on life but to "giving up" on trying to get a girl. I know it sounds insane but trust me, try it for a year and see what happens.

I've already been there and tried that, All I did was sit around consooming video games. It wasn't a productive or fulfilling way to live.

The reality is, it probably won't ever happen if you're past the age of 30 and have little to no experience. Nobody is going to want to date a 30+ year old autistic man who doesn't have much to bring to the table, and especially one who rants on internet forums about his lack of "getting some."

Which is why I have spent my youth so hyper fixated on getting a woman despite everyone around me telling me bullshit platitudes that it will "happen one day". I'm running out of time and I need to do everything possible to maximize my chances of success.

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Anything, I'm desperate and will take anything I can get.

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

If a girlfriend isn't for me then at that point life isn't for me, it's the only thing I really want in life, everything else is just secondary.

He's probably watched too many Judd Apatow movies to take honest life advice. But just in case, he should probably give up for good.

What's the difference between giving up on reproduction and drinking myself to an early death and just flat out suicide? Getting a woman is my main reason to live and everyone is telling me to just give up on this goal that so many others achieve effortlessly even though giving up basically means suicide.