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💬 Off-TopicRandom Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging
A lot of trannies seem to be true narcissists.They turn their desire for women into desire and obsession with themselves ("I'd fuck me, I'd fuck me hard"). A lot of their behaviors make sense when you think of it this way. The euphoria bullshit is just the performance of a disordered retard who craves attention or else it's just a performance to fit in with other trannies the same way people in a cult or deep in religion may pretend to have similar experiences to other "true believers" in order to solidify their place within the belief structure.
Also, of course, they're just plain getting off and calling it something else.
Now I have a hypothesis brewing. Autism and troonery have an observable overlap (or, at least autists appear to be uniquely vulnerable to trans grooming). Autism comes with a known difficulty in reading social cues and other peoples' emotions. Perhaps they more easily believe the "gender euphoria" chicanery because they can't feel the vibe difference between genuine happiness and mania?
Also, as far as otherness and autism, a further question since I’m genuinely curious: do you think an indirect feeling of it is caused by external observation (“huh, you act weird”) or pattern recognition (“huh, I don’t quite act like everyone else”)?
The summary is that autists can't tell the difference between someone being genuine and someone going through the motions to avoid retaliation, so the "affirmations", however fake, are enough to satisfy an autist troon.
I wonder if a lot of the issues can be drawn back to them not being able to distinguish 'happiness' from 'mania'. If you were genuinely happy nobodies words could bring you down, however that is not the case with mania. Mania can go from manic highs to depressive lows, and mania matches a lot of what's going on with them.
Depression is anger without passion. Mania is passion (which may come with anger or other emotions) which is such a stark contrast to the troon's typical experience that it is a welcome change. And maybe mania is a genuine improvement for them. Though the other side effects are not worth the costs.
I wonder how many trannies actually realize relatively quickly that it isn't for them, but they've invested so much emotion, time, money and bridges burned with friends and family, that they have to keep it going for as long as possible because then they would have to admit they fucked up royally, and no one likes doing that. This means they probably have to constantly psyop themselves by regurgitating troon propaganda and memes 24/7 and hang out in super accepting spaces to keep their self delusion up. Could whatever conscience they have left drive some of their insanely narcissistic and lashing out attitude and potentially drive them to be suicidal?
The summary is that autists can't tell the difference between someone being genuine and someone going through the motions to avoid retaliation, so the "affirmations", however fake, are enough to satisfy an autist troon.
I wonder how many trannies actually realize relatively quickly that it isn't for them, but they've invested so much emotion, time, money and bridges burned with friends and family, that they have to keep it going for as long as possible because then they would have to admit they fucked up royally, and no one likes doing that. This means they probably have to constantly psyop themselves by regurgitating troon propaganda and memes 24/7 and hang out in super accepting spaces to keep their self delusion up. Could whatever conscience they have left drive some of their insanely narcissistic and lashing out attitude and potentially drive them to be suicidal?
I wonder how many trannies actually realize relatively quickly that it isn't for them, but they've invested so much emotion, time, money and bridges burned with friends and family, that they have to keep it going for as long as possible because then they would have to admit they fucked up royally, and no one likes doing that.
What is the term by which you'd have understood that's exactly what I was talking about in the bit you quoted from me? When I said elective and non-reconstructive, and I'm not trying to be an asshole and say you have no reading comprehension, but I'm really asking what would have been the right way to phrase my stance so that you understand that I don't care about ugly people born ugly with just the problem of being ugly, but I do care about people whose long-term health is at risk, and people who were in terrible accidents or attacks and don't want to see that moment over again every time they look at themselves? I'm sure some of that is technically classified as elective in particular legal terminology in whatever place, but in the parlance of a casual forum, how can I say that I am ok with fixing cleft lips, but I don't care about whether or not someone is attractive, without using a hundred words?
Nah I didn't actually misunderstand you, my reply was kind of rambling and I may not have been entirely clear what my point of disagreement with you actually was. When I brought up facial deformity, etc I wasn't arguing with you, just contrasting it with troonery ops as cases that actually do warrant insurance coverage. We are on the same page about most of that, I just don't agree about a blanket ban on cosmetic surgery period (and took some exception to the implication it's as ban-worthy as the troon butchery). I don't see the harm as long as A) You pay for it all yourself (barring the exceptions we talked about), and B) The surgeon uses good professional judgement and stays true to standard medical ethics. The rest was just me ranting a bit about what I specifically mean by that and why I'm fine with most cosmetic surgery in general yet have a major fucking problem with the troon-specific ones.
That long-ago lady reporter talked about how she felt more confident and got stuff done and found decisions easier... but then she listened to her voice on an answering machine and heard a flat affect, no life in it (she wasn't at frog voice dose/duration) and she analyzed her behavior and realized she was objectively being an asshole to her friends/acting out of character.
It was still navel-gazey reporting, but even casual writing about personal experience like that would be forbidden now. You can write about getting hairy or getting vaginal atrophy, but cross-sex hormones affecting behavior? Illegal.
Maybe it's just me but I never got the sense it was haram to acknowledge that abusing inappropriate doses of sex hormones can affect mood or behavior? I've seen countless posts on here where troons go on ad nauseum about how starting estrogen makes MtFs practically giddy and behave like submissive, giggly, overly emotional, forgetful, ditzy bimbos, and T makes FtMs cry far less frequently, more assertive and outgoing, more impulsive, and act out sexually due to difficulty controlling their libido. Actually, among all types of troons, one of the most popular topics to overshare about in excruciating, graphic detail is how HRT has changed their sexual behavior/preferences You periodically see stories about new onset relationship problems where another party specifically identifies the hormones as a causative factor. Another very common one is where troons who have been on cross-sex hormones for any length of time appear to exhibit almost addictive behavior if they are worried about losing access, and frantically assert that it has such a pronounced effect on their mental health and ability to function that they don't think they can cope with life without it.
How much of that is just placebo effect and euphoria boners is another story, but they do bring it up. It may be the case that any studies about the subject are being cockblocked by the troon lobby for some retarded reason, but tbh it's probably virtually impossible to even design a quality study to draw any meaningful conclusions about it. The problem is troons of either persuasion are pretty much universally flaming dumpster fires of concurrent mental health diagnoses and drug use (prescription and otherwise) that long predated the trooning and persist (if not worsen) after. And that's without getting into how psychology/psychiatry studies are mostly fucking garbage in general due to unavoidably relying on self-reported symptoms by a group where whiners, navel-gazers, pussies, drug seekers, responsibility-avoiders, fuckwits deliberately attempting to identify with a self-diagnosis, shitty lazy parents, and general attention-seeking liars are greatly overrepresented, and subjective evaluation by retard therapists who are too eager to pathologize everything and often prone to start with a conclusion then selectively interpret things to cram the patient into that box even if it's an incredibly poor fit.
There are social benefits to being a woman, no matter how much women complain about how hard life is for them, like more empathy when you're hurt, less suspicion around children, less questioning if you lie and less blame when you're caught, and lower standards for achievement, virtually everywhere.
If I were a man and nobody were allowed to question it if I said I were a woman, I'd probably opt in for that coupon book, too. Especially if the world kept telling me about the "male privileges" I don't have.
You aren't wrong, but a key point is that in most areas where society tends to "go easy" on women, it is specifically to accommodate somewhat for the fact that women as a group are inherently vulnerable and limited by physical traits in a way that men are not.
(There is an argument to be made that Western societies have overcorrected in some ways, women sometimes get advantages in cases where it makes no sense, and some women abuse them to hell and back. I want to acknowledge that without getting too in the weeds about it to avoid starting a men vs women pissing match. I find that stupid and unproductive as hell and this isn't the thread for it anyway.)
I think a lot of people in modern Western society often lose sight of how significant women's physical disadvantages really are. For perspective: If men unilaterally decided tomorrow that they really liked the Taliban's approach to women's rights, and suddenly women could no longer rely on the might of the legal system or help from men to enforce the laws that protect them, the most intelligent and capable of women still wouldn't have any chance of overcoming the physical disparities. Back to trannies, the reason why a lot of women get so upset about troons is that they are acutely aware that without Western social benefits giving them anything approaching equal footing, they'd be totally at the mercy of the most brutal, predatory men. Troons flagrantly violate boundaries meant to keep women safe and the law does fuck all about it. They claim they deserve the social benefits women actually need when it's impossible for them to identify into the physical vulnerabilities of womanhood. And of course they "become a real woman" by reducing themselves to a sex object while crudely mimicking the most offensive coombrained idea of female stereotypes. It's all a cruel mockery while still being legitimately alarming.
The obvious one is 'KEEP THEM OFF THE INTERNET!', but another version is to spend time with them without electronics, such as going to the park or something.
Keeping them off the internet is a good idea, but blanket bans aren't really effective on their own because they're still going to end up exposed to many of the same retarded ideas at school from fuckwit teachers, pozzed curriculums, peers with shitty parents who let their kid get groomed on discord, and pop psychology cancer that trickles in via peers repeating nonsense from their retard therapist and how it became a point of pride to self-diagnose and identify into some dubious mental illness, use it as a trump card to evade responsibility, and make people do what you want. Don't let the mental health industry con artists anywhere fucking near them if you can possibly avoid it, obviously.
The key here is to talk to your fuckin' kid. Strike a balance between expecting that they show a degree of basic respect to their teacher, and "just following orders". Don't let them get away with being an antagonistic little shithead, but let them know that in some cases, speaking up or polite disobedience is okay, and teach them to use their own judgement to decide when it is appropriate to break a rule. Basically ensure they understand that teachers can in fact be wrong and correct any fucking stupid shit that they might've told your kid if you become aware of it.
Strongly encourage them in any productive nonconventional interests they may have. Try to make them comfortable with nonconformity, discourage hopping on every stupid fad and doing dumb shit to impress peers because it will not make them like or respect you. Mock retarded shit like nonbinary fuckwits loudly and often. If they do go through bizarre phases (gender non-conformity or otherwise), don't make a big deal out of it - don't turn it into a giant fight when it doesn't need to be, but don't make a huge production of indulging it either because that creates pressure to stick with it long after they lose interest. Encourage them to stay physically healthy, reasonably fit, and practice good hygiene; if you let them become greasy unwashed fat fucks you inevitably create body-focused self esteem issues and social problems that exponentially increase the likelihood of them getting desperate enough to troon out.
When/if you do allow them on social media, wait until they are old enough to understand the concept of "the internet is forever". Try to teach them to value privacy, how to practice basic opsec if they use reddit or similar, and that you can't go wrong by erring on the side of hiding your powerlevel. "Cyberbullying" isn't real and if they start getting too emotionally invested in people being faggots on the internet, pull them away from it and occupy them with IRL shit for a few days (and if they listened to you about not oversharing or volunteering embarrassing information, nobody can harass them in any consequential way anyhow). And for the love of God, do anything reasonably within your power to minimize their exposure to porn.
I wonder how many trannies actually realize relatively quickly that it isn't for them, but they've invested so much emotion, time, money and bridges burned with friends and family, that they have to keep it going for as long as possible because then they would have to admit they fucked up royally, and no one likes doing that. This means they probably have to constantly psyop themselves by regurgitating troon propaganda and memes 24/7 and hang out in super accepting spaces to keep their self delusion up. Could whatever conscience they have left drive some of their insanely narcissistic and lashing out attitude and potentially drive them to be suicidal?
You see exactly the same thing with cults. Cultists invest so much and sacrifice so much that leaving is not an option. So they lie to themselves and others about how much they’ve got out of the cult because if they leave, they’ll have nothing.
It is when you're using it to say anything other than what the troons want to hear.
A paraphrased example from a real post that I saw on reddit: "My newly MTF coworker has been wearing inappropriately short skirts, extremely tight tops, and other inappropriate things like stockings and visible thong panties that go against dress code. Coworker has also been making a lot of sex jokes and talking loudly and often about sexual topics like genitals, breasts, cum, et cetera. How do I deal with this?" "Well, when trans people go on hormones, they basically go through second puberty, so your coworker is just behaving like a normal awkward teenage girl who isn't aware of social norms and is learning about her own sexuality. This is super normal and common and eventually she'll get over it, it's not her fault and it would be mean of you to report her to HR."
But if I was to say "I don't want to be around someone who is transitioning with hormones because hormones cause trans people to behave like pubescent teenagers and I don't socialize with teenagers," suddenly I'd be a raging transphobe who is generalizing the Trans Experience and infantilizing trans people and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
There's different flavors of autism. A common kind is related to face blindness where they can't read other people's emotions. The 41% might be people not in that group.
It is when you're using it to say anything other than what the troons want to hear.
A paraphrased example from a real post that I saw on reddit: "My newly MTF coworker has been wearing inappropriately short skirts, extremely tight tops, and other inappropriate things like stockings and visible thong panties that go against dress code. Coworker has also been making a lot of sex jokes and talking loudly and often about sexual topics like genitals, breasts, cum, et cetera. How do I deal with this?" "Well, when trans people go on hormones, they basically go through second puberty, so your coworker is just behaving like a normal awkward teenage girl who isn't aware of social norms and is learning about her own sexuality. This is super normal and common and eventually she'll get over it, it's not her fault and it would be mean of you to report her to HR."
But if I was to say "I don't want to be around someone who is transitioning with hormones because hormones cause trans people to behave like pubescent teenagers and I don't socialize with teenagers," suddenly I'd be a raging transphobe who is generalizing the Trans Experience and infantilizing trans people and I have no idea what I'm talking about.
They are totally unaware girls have social norms drilled into them since birth. The only social norms normal teen girls break are makeup related ones, and a few fashion faux pas here and there.
You aren't wrong, but a key point is that in most areas where society tends to "go easy" on women, it is specifically to accommodate somewhat for the fact that women as a group are inherently vulnerable and limited by physical traits in a way that men are not.
100% agree. I've said before: if you believe in women's rights, you must also respect women's boundaries.
We have a hard time with the concept of equality. We've socially engineered a society where women are supposed to be equal to men, but the reality is they are not.
There's different flavors of autism. A common kind is related to face blindness where they can't read other people's emotions. The 41% might be people not in that group.
The 41% are a majority people that realize how badly they fucked themselves up or trannies that got eaten up and spat out by the purity spiral thanks to other troons and "allies" from what I've observed. They always retroactively try to frame it like "transphobia". Usually "internalized transphobia", sometimes lying about harassment from 4chan or here when 1 out of 99999999.99 times it's some nobody who never had a cow thread or even a "tranny observation general" type thread post. The 41% stat is a well oiled cannibalistic machine of blame games and ostracization and self destruction for wrongthink. It's way too social pressure and cue based to be an "inherent autism" thing. Autism literally is a condition about not being the best at recognizing and following social cues without proper training and therapy.
Which then leads me to the question about whether or not autism can be nurtured, or whether there's a blurry line between official diagnosis and just being socially weird - we didn't have autism when I was a kid, we had weirdos.
And if that's the case, the whole "born that way" thing falls apart really fast.
It never was an actual thing. It's an excuse to behave as shitty as they want because they're heckin victims of their genes and how dare you call them out
The brain is incredibly plastic, even after the age it finishes developing. Sure, an accidental wire may be crossed and now little Timmy finds feet erotic but if he keeps reinforcing it in no time he turns into a retarded fetishist who can't get off to vanilla porn anymore. This was the whole reason porn became 18+ in the first place and why groomers love to target those ages, kids' brains are incredibly sensitive and incredibly easy to reshape and rewire, moreso in regards to sexuality. And yes, this applies to all fetishes and orientations
Also ironic how woke retards circled back to the far-right fatalist idea that genetics is everything. A grown ass 40 year old can wear dresses and demand access to a elementary school's girls toilet because xhe was born that way UwU. What is free will, self-discipline and nurture
They are totally unaware girls have social norms drilled into them since birth. The only social norms normal teen girls break are makeup related ones, and a few fashion faux pas here and there.
I'm going to partially disagree with you here. There are certainly plenty of awkward and weird teenage girls who do act like that redditor's tranny coworker. It's usually the types who end up on Tumblr if they aren't already there - the theater kid girls, the band geek girls, the anime club girls (although anime is mainstream now, you probably get what I mean). Teen girls can certainly be as weird and horny as their male counterparts, but it's not as commonly depicted or stereotyped because of, as you correctly pointed out, the much more rigid social normal that are drilled into girls.
That said, that social conditioning that girls are subjected to is something that the troons have never and will never experience, and in my opinion, the messaging and conditioning and pressure and expectations that females are subjected to are much more a part of "being a woman" than having tits and wearing striped knee-highs.
Now I have a hypothesis brewing. Autism and troonery have an observable overlap (or, at least autists appear to be uniquely vulnerable to trans grooming). Autism comes with a known difficulty in reading social cues and other peoples' emotions. Perhaps they more easily believe the "gender euphoria" chicanery because they can't feel the vibe difference between genuine happiness and mania?
I notice a radical contrast between various autistic people. A lot of troons seem to be autistic, but a massive chunk of autists are extremely transphobic because they see past social conditioning and genuinely don't get these dressing charades and are great at pattern recognition. Just not the social one. From personal observations, people lower on the spectrum or having lower IQ are actually the ones who see through this and refuse to make sense of troonery, but I'm not sure how common it is among this cohort.
Which then leads me to the question about whether or not autism can be nurtured, or whether there's a blurry line between official diagnosis and just being socially weird - we didn't have autism when I was a kid, we had weirdos.
Not really. We had aspies. This is what bothers me a lot as of lately, merging Asperger's with ASD. Technically, yes, it's autism too, but I have a hunch that all the wrong people now benefit from that. Aspies are virtually weirdo normies who, despite having developmental disorders, grow up to be more or less functional.
Actual autistic individuals clearly need more support later in life. It just feels really dishonest to use "autistic" to refer to both a slightly weird, sometimes a little bit psychopathic/narcissitic kid who seems to hyperfocus on some stuff, and someone who literally shits themselves as an adult all the time because they can't properly process and recognize their bodily sensations or hyperfocus on some activity that they literally don't notice until it's too late.
Also, while data isn't conclusive, so take this with a grain of salt, aspies tend to be more intelligent that average population, while autists are usually below the average. All these "gifted kids" are usually aspies too, which might be a cause of that common "my child is special, they're not sick, just different" misconception. Aspies might be special and rather just different than disordered, to a degree. Autists are clearly suffering from a debilitating developmental disorder, however.
So again, I'm not sure if it was a good idea to merge all this into one broad "autistic spectrum".
I'll agree with you that it was not. With autism diagnoses on the rise, particularly for females, the "spectrum" now encompasses way too wide a span of behaviors and traits. The horse girls and trains boys of the world will certainly experience more social problems and struggles than a normie might, but they pale in comparison to someone like Erik Mokracek. There's terms like "high needs" or "low support" but they're too euphemistic for the average person to understand and seem to be rarely used by people who didn't seek out confirming diagnoses or people who aren't trying to be as PC as possible.
I think the worst thing for an aspie is coddling, but unfortunately it seems to be the thing that happens most (particularly for male aspies). Parents are so impressed with their kid being "smart" that they neglect the aspie's social development and lean into "you're perfect and special and it's not YOUR fault that others don't understand how amazing you are!" This throws fuel on the fire if a kid's already prone to narcissism and lacking empathy. And then you end up with smug, aggressive troons who are convinced that they are OWED!!! everything they want, and that the world needs to make room for them, because they're perfect and special.
It just feels really dishonest to use "autistic" to refer to both a slightly weird, sometimes a little bit psychopathic/narcissitic kid who seems to hyperfocus on some stuff, and someone who literally shits themselves as an adult all the time because they can't properly process and recognize their bodily sensations or hyperfocus on some activity that they literally don't notice until it's too late.
Agreed. I guess I should distinguish between people who are legitimately autistic and the self-diagnosed weirdos who need something to claim themselves "special".
Aspies might technically be a thing but if they're able to grow up and be functioning, just quirky or a bit awkward then what is the point of a diagnosis? It just pathologizes something that can easily be handled by a slightly different approach to rearing. Which, even with completely normal kids you will have to change approaches for each individual anyway.
Aspies might technically be a thing but if they're able to grow up and be functioning, just quirky or a bit awkward then what is the point of a diagnosis? It just pathologizes something that can easily be handled by a slightly different approach to rearing. Which, even with completely normal kids you will have to change approaches for each individual anyway.
I’m on the fence with some diagnoses like that. Yeah, it definitely pathologizes normal behavior and growing pains. Definitely leaves a stigma, too. One would hope that, when properly used, a diagnosis would be to educate the patient and those close to them on what their deficits may be and coping mechanisms to work around them in vocational training, etc.
You periodically see stories about new onset relationship problems where another party specifically identifies the hormones as a causative factor. Another very common one is where troons who have been on cross-sex hormones for any length of time appear to exhibit almost addictive behavior if they are worried about losing access, and frantically assert that it has such a pronounced effect on their mental health and ability to function that they don't think they can cope with life without it.
