What separates spanking from abuse?

[Lingering butter taste]

I should preface this with, I don’t believe spanking is inherently abuse.

I’m just curious, when does spanking become abuse? What crosses the line?
Growing up, my mom would call what she did “spanking”. She’d aim for the face and hit us for shit like crying or asking “why?” when she told us to do something. We’d get imprints in our arm from shielding our face from the buckle. It’s still spanking, but most people who I tell this to are horrified. So what exactly crosses the line from discipline to “what the fuck?”. When does it start to become not ok?

 

[Shartavius]

An erection.

 

[Yamaha YM2612]

Intent and purpose

Spanking is corrective in both, abuse is just sociopathy and violent for the sake of it

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

the buckle

by my recollection of being whipped with a belt ... being hit with the buckle is abuse and you are allowed to defend yourself plot your parents eventual murder.

 

[Herr Flick]

1. Anger/acting on an emotional trigger.
2. Punishing the child for doing something that the child doesn’t know is wrong.
3. Punishing the child to strictly create fear rates than to teach.
4. Excessive force or trauma disproportionate to the offense.

 

[Gorton Colu]

If it is done dispassionately and is a predictable consequence to poor behavior then its discipline.

If its not predictable and done in anger, it is abuse.

 

[User names must be unique]

A good reason and an explanation of that reasoning.

 

[Lingering butter taste]

Intent and purpose

Spanking is corrective in both, abuse is just sociopathy and violent for the sake of it

My only issue in that is, really anyone can say “I just wanted to help” and can curb their cravings to loosely fit into that frame. I’ve seen parents be almost disappointed that their kids didn’t act out so they had an excuse to hit them.

by my recollection of being whipped with a belt ... being hit with the buckle is abuse and you are allowed to defend yourself plot your parents eventual murder.

I’ll put them on CWCvillian trial for this. That shit is unforgiving.

If it is done dispassionately and is a predictable consequence to poor behavior then its discipline.

If its not predictable and done in anger, it is abuse.

I agree that consistency matters. To use myself as an example again, I had no fucking clue what was wrong or right as a child cause just random shit was suddenly bad and random shit was suddenly ok. I didn’t really learn right or wrong, just that my parents are bipolar psychopaths.

Where I maybe(?) disagree is whether it’s done in anger or not, but that’s just purely because I have seen so many children spanked in anger that I refuse to believe that many parents deserve volcano sacrifice

2. Punishing the child for doing something that the child doesn’t know is wrong.

I still remember being genuinely shocked when my mom was mad at me for messing with her documents, in my 8 year old brain they’re still usable so it’s ok. I was genuinely confused and bewildered. Still got hit with a hardcover book though.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I wanna say "ask your mom", but that might actually be practical advice in this case.

 

[Kela de Thaym]

In my opinion, I think it straddles the line of being abuse. There are studies out there that show it causes more long term negative effects than anything good and frankly, it also teaches kids that it’s okay to hit others when they’re angry for no real reason (barring self-defense).

I knew someone who only got spanked once and their parents regretted it instantly. They instead turned to other forms of discipline, but from what they told me, it was a good, loud angry voice that worked far more effectively (for them) than corporal punishment.

 

[HandsomeDan]

The thing about spanking as many parents have found out when carried out properly you usually end up only having to do it once or twice at the most. No one wants to spank their children but as discipline it is effective when a child knows the treat of spanking is legitimate and will be carried out.

The main problem with spanking or any other form of discipline is when tried by weak parents becomes ineffective when the child knows the weak parent will never follow through.

Routine spanking for every transgression will border on abuse. This is not what I am talking about here.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Punishing the child for doing something that the child doesn’t know is wrong.

What if it's something like running into traffic, that the child is too you to understand the issue with?

it also teaches kids that it’s okay to hit others when they’re angry for no real reason (barring self-defense).

What if you beat them up for beating up other children?

 

[Magicicada_septendecula]

I think all of the poll answers are correct.
Where - too close to the genitalia or near the kidneys is both gross and potentially damaging.
Why- small things that don't involve disrespect, harm to others, or blatant disregard to known rules rarely need more than a calm verbal correction. Innocent mistakes should not be met with physical punishment.
What- the hand, a slipper, a wooden spoon, paddle, or cane are acceptable. Electrical cords, cables, things intended to whip large animals are not.
The emotional state the spanker- you may regret doing it later if it is done out of anger and find there was a better way to handle the problem.
I'd also add the duration of the spanking as a potential separator between spanking or abuse. The child should know the punishment has a definite end and that they're not going to be taking whacks to the ass with no ending in sight. The age too, you should never spank a child who cannot talk and one that has not yet developed some rudimentary form of reasoning. If you want to see exactly what not to do, look up the works of Michael and Debi Pearl, a couple of fundies who advocate hour-long spankings for children as young as 6 months.
If I have kids, I won't totally rule out corporal punishment, but even for a particularly rebellious kid, it should probably be used very sparingly. My parents used corporal punishment at first, but stopped when it made me more mean.

 

[Polyarmory]

I really think it depends on the child. I have relatives who were raised "soft" or "modern" who came out perfectly fine because they never really had an attitude that needed spanking-level adjustment. I never needed it either because I was aware enough to realize that my parents held all the cards.

(Frankly, I wonder if spanking seems to be more common among blacks because black children need it more often. Weirdly feels more racist than the usual discussions of "niggers" here.)

 

[Lingering butter taste]

(Frankly, I wonder if spanking seems to be more common among blacks because black children need it more often. Weirdly feels more racist than the usual discussions of "niggers" here.)

Black person here, I can confirm that’s not it at all.

The reason why black kids are spanked more is because black parents like to spank kids. Because they were spanked as kids and have lived their whole lives feeling powerless and waiting for “their turn” to fill that hole in their heart. As for the origin of abuse spanking in black culture, I suspect it comes from slavery

 

[Polyarmory]

Black person here, I can confirm that’s not it at all.

The reason why black kids are spanked more is because black parents like to spank kids. Because they were spanked as kids and have lived their whole lives feeling powerless and waiting for “their turn” to fill that hole in their heart. As for the origin of abuse spanking in black culture, I suspect it comes from slavery

Why do you think it fell out of popularity over the last 2 generations or so among white people, but not black people? (btw I greatly respect your politeness in this circumstance lol) Was there a different reason that each race did it during the time when both were?

 

[Lingering butter taste]

Why do you think it fell out of popularity over the last 2 generations or so among white people, but not black people? (btw I greatly respect your politeness in this circumstance lol) Was there a different reason that each race did it during the time when both were?

I think it’s simply the whole “racism” grudge most older black people have.
White people coming to a conclusion that something is morally wrong and shouldn’t be practiced is seen as offensive to an older black person. They see it as “the white man telling me what to do”. Couple that with the fact that they have spent years “waiting their turn” and they’ll be very closed off to it.

There was a TikTok trend a while back where a white man made a song about how spanking children was abuse, a lot of black people and minorities in general dueted it seething and MATI. Their defense was simply “I am black, you are white, do not tell me what to do.”.

When younger black people come to this conclusion and attempt to inform the community, it also does not work. The elders disapprove because black parents generally do not care about the opinions of their children. This culture has extended to black elders generally not caring about the opinions of anyone younger.
Other younger black people brought up to be nodding heads very respectful of their parents also brush it off with “White people are just being bitches, and you are too”.

I care a lot about my race and country, but we gotta change. The issue is our culture is structured in a way where change is inherently evil.

To anyone reading this, this isn’t your free card to be a racist piece of shit by the way. This is not indicative of every black person ever, I have a black friend whose mom was amazing and raised her very well, single even. I have much respect for her.

 

[Angry Shoes]

If you have to hit a kid to get them to behave you're a moron.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

Black person here, I can confirm that’s not it at all.

The reason why black kids are spanked more is because black parents like to spank kids. Because they were spanked as kids and have lived their whole lives feeling powerless and waiting for “their turn” to fill that hole in their heart. As for the origin of abuse spanking in black culture, I suspect it comes from slavery

Can't speak to the race or historical slavery aspects of what you wrote here, but I can say that my parents were raised (Southern) being switched (as in, "go pick your own [willow branch or similar] and bring it back in here to me") and spanked. I was spanked (hand and belt, though jfc never the buckle) to some fairly young age or other, until my mother, as she tells it, had a fresh look at my dad giving me a spanking and thought it was just so wrong for someone so big to spank someone so small. And that was that; younger siblings never got spanked.

But to your original question and earlier comments: spanking is NOT (by which I mean should never be) hitting or beating. It's not to the face, not in fury, not with a hardback book. It's not throwing things or hauling off or getting out the parent's emotions. It's not for unknown or unknowable transgressions. And tbh it shouldn't (if it is done at all) require an implement; if you're going to hit someone, you should feel the pain of the impact so you understand at least a tenth of the pain you're causing.

What you've described is pretty fucking brutal. Kids shielding their heads, books and belt-buckles as weapons, a parent whaling on a child...no, none of that is "spanking," and it sounds like a nightmare. If that was your upbringing, no, you're not crazy for thinking it was wrong. It was wrong.

 

[Lingering butter taste]

What you've described is pretty fucking brutal. Kids shielding their heads, books and belt-buckles as weapons, a parent whaling on a child...no, none of that is "spanking," and it sounds like a nightmare. If that was your upbringing, no, you're not crazy for thinking it was wrong. It was wrong.