Warhammer 40k

[L50LasPak]

(RIP Squats)

While I clipped most of your message I did read the whole thing. Granted, my experiences as a hobbyist has dealt mostly with friends who enjoyed debating both mine and their own interpretations of a setting (depending on what we were playing). I have no idea how much it sucks to have to deal with that shit from some random stranger who may or may not be willing to give your interpretation any credit and insists on just Rules/Lore Lawyering straight down to the bottom.

Even though I've read up a bit on Warhammer 40k, I'm definitely no expert. I just found its justification for inconsistencies unique. Despite the problems that may cause.

On the offically published end, that's kind of missing exactly what I tried to point out in the first place. Assuming you aren't playing with complete lunatics like That Guy you can just kind of pick whatever you want as long as its brought up first. Granted, I'm appreciating it from a distance. I've invested about $20 into Warhammer 40k and that was because I got a favor from a buddy. I've never spent $400 and then had to play with a dickwad who insists on sticking to current rules no matter how bullshit they are.

 

[Picnic_Boy]

The focus on Space Marines gets even sillier when you realize they are by far the smallest faction in the game. And, when written correctly, they should come across as downright alien. I've often thought it goofy that the loss of the Ultramarine First Company was portrayed as this dramatic thing, but it was only like a hundred guys, right? It ain't exactly D Day.

 

[That Chris Guy]

While I clipped most of your message I did read the whole thing. Granted, my experiences as a hobbyist has dealt mostly with friends who enjoyed debating both mine and their own interpretations of a setting (depending on what we were playing). I have no idea how much it sucks to have to deal with that shit from some random stranger who may or may not be willing to give your interpretation any credit and insists on just Rules/Lore Lawyering straight down to the bottom.

Even though I've read up a bit on Warhammer 40k, I'm definitely no expert. I just found its justification for inconsistencies unique. Despite the problems that may cause.

On the offically published end, that's kind of missing exactly what I tried to point out in the first place. Assuming you aren't playing with complete lunatics like That Guy you can just kind of pick whatever you want as long as its brought up first. Granted, I'm appreciating it from a distance. I've invested about $20 into Warhammer 40k and that was because I got a favor from a buddy. I've never spent $400 and then had to play with a dickwad who insists on sticking to current rules no matter how bullshit they are.

Understandable. I can see how to someone who hasn't made any real investment in the game it may seem appealing. Warhammer's lore has survived from staying mostly true to itself rather than compromising elements just to appeal to outliers.

However, Space Marines weren't always at the apex of their attentions; they still received a great deal of lore - yes, but it was much more interspersed and model releases were more consistent for everyone. The only guys that truly received no love for the longest time were the Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle.

Nowadays it's feeling more than just a little ridiculous how much focus has been placed on the Astartes. The Eldar on both sides just received one update to a special character model each, compared to GW farting out what? Something like 6-8 Primaris character revisions this year? They have so many bloody special characters they could form their own standing army. Why has it taken so long just to update one Phoenix Lord? And that's to say nothing of how long stuff like the Avatar of Khaine has been sitting around with the same design for decades. It just really feels inconsistent and unfortunately, you can expect updates of updates of updates of some SM models before you can expect some for the more neglected xenos.

The focus on Space Marines gets even sillier when you realize they are by far the smallest faction in the game. And, when written correctly, they should come across as downright alien. I've often thought it goofy that the loss of the Ultramarine First Company was portrayed as this dramatic thing, but it was only like a hundred guys, right? It ain't exactly D Day.

It is kinda ridiculous. It's meant to evoke a Spartan sort of feel, but that's lost amidst just how much they receive. Lorewise they're only supposed to be like a thousand soldiers per chapter, but they keep getting special squads and Primaris upgrades and all the new cool, funky gadgetry that one wonders if they really are small anymore.

 

[Salt_Merchant]

well i mean geedubs has always been really bad at conveying scale with numbers

like 14 million guardsmen die during the 17 year long siege of vraks, a conflict involving daemons, chaos space marines, mutants and shit.

which sounds on paper like a metric shit tonne and reinforces how huge this 17 year long war was.

until you realise thats about a million less than the combined military casualties of china and the ussr in ww2.

 

[Adamska]

well i mean geedubs has always been really bad at conveying scale with numbers

like 14 million guardsmen die during the 17 year long siege of vraks, a conflict involving daemons, chaos space marines, mutants and shit.

which sounds on paper like a metric shit tonne and reinforces how huge this 17 year long war was.

until you realise thats about a million less than the combined military casualties of china and the ussr in ww2.

Compared to stuff like the An Lushan Rebellion and the Taiping Rebellion, those are rookie numbers with the shit those guardsmen face.

Real guardsmen die in the accidentally homebrewed Acheron Pacification campaign my group came up with via dice rolls from the planet generator, which has claimed 4 billion guardsmen and other Imperials so far. All so they can catch and eat one of the most delicious xenos in the galaxy, giant isopod like critters that live on ammonia ocean riddled super-earths.

 

[That Chris Guy]

well i mean geedubs has always been really bad at conveying scale with numbers

like 14 million guardsmen die during the 17 year long siege of vraks, a conflict involving daemons, chaos space marines, mutants and shit.

which sounds on paper like a metric shit tonne and reinforces how huge this 17 year long war was.

until you realise thats about a million less than the combined military casualties of china and the ussr in ww2.

They have a really good healthcare plan...

I guess they could round it out by saying huge numbers of civilian casualties, but generally it's the military who's meant to lose more since they're the ones fighting. When you're dealing with planetary populations, billions and trillions of people can easily be reached. Unless it's something like Catachan where everything kills you and you're best off fleeing.

 

[Burned Man]

They have a really good healthcare plan...

I guess they could round it out by saying huge numbers of civilian casualties, but generally it's the military who's meant to lose more since they're the ones fighting. When you're dealing with planetary populations, billions and trillions of people can easily be reached. Unless it's something like Catachan where everything kills you and you're best off fleeing.

Its probably just GW not thinking about the scale that the Imperium exists in when it comes to some wars but I'd like to think that a low body count could be the result of general Munitorum incompetence and bureaucracy at work. Things like deaths occurring off the battlefield in triage centers or in orbit not counting on technicalities, guardsmen being listed as MIA as there weren't enough pieces to positively ID them, files on units being misplaced causing entire units that died as still being filed as active, various factions under reporting either to over their asses or save morale.

 

[Picnic_Boy]

Anyone notice how GW is bringing a canonical Zoat into Blackstone Fortress?

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Anyone notice how GW is bringing a canonical Zoat into Blackstone Fortress?

I’m looking forward to the new elf release for AoS. Gluing Teclis and the hollow guy is going to be worse than Nagash.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

I don't get the batwing theme they've given the mechanicus (its more davinci than steampunk), but I love those robot horses.

 

[737 MAX Stan Account]

How would a Mass Effect-style rpg work in the 40k universe? Could you get away with a human protagonist having xenos squadmates?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The focus on Space Marines gets even sillier when you realize they are by far the smallest faction in the game. And, when written correctly, they should come across as downright alien. I've often thought it goofy that the loss of the Ultramarine First Company was portrayed as this dramatic thing, but it was only like a hundred guys, right? It ain't exactly D Day.

tbf, a death of a space marine is the drain of decades/centuries of experience, massive amount of technology and combat efficency. A small amount of SM can break standstills that tens of thousands of guardsmen can't. I think the best depiction of it and SM alien world view is the short story Flesh by Chris Wraight (one of the best stories to introduce people to space marines).

 

[Picnic_Boy]

tbf, a death of a space marine is the drain of decades/centuries of experience, massive amount of technology and combat efficency. A small amount of SM can break standstills that tens of thousands of guardsmen can't. I think the best depiction of it and SM alien world view is the short story Flesh by Chris Wraight (one of the best stories to introduce people to space marines).

I get that it's supposed to be a big deal, but even if a single Space Marine is equivalent to 10,000 normal soldiers, that's only a million guys out of a literal trillion. It's not that GW can't sell massive losses, they did a much better job when describing the pyrrhic victory of Iyanden over Hive Fleet Kraken. It could just be that whoever writes about Ultramarines takes hold of the Idiot Ball, because guys like the Lamenters show that Space Marines can be presented as truly decimated and beleaguered without diminishing their bravery or sense of duty. Hell, the Lamenters have a stupid heart as their logo and they're still badass.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

I don't get the batwing theme they've given the mechanicus (its more davinci than steampunk), but I love those robot horses.

That’s the point. Ad Mech is supposed to be a cross between ancient and futuristic technologies.

Also I’m going to preemptively say fuck those robot horses with the flamer heads because I’m pretty sure they’ll be at least AP -1 and the last thing my Khorne Berserkers need is a harasser unit with anti-charge abilities.

 

[That Chris Guy]

How would a Mass Effect-style rpg work in the 40k universe? Could you get away with a human protagonist having xenos squadmates?

It wouldn't, and no. Unlike Mass Effect there's no spirit of cooperation, no galactic xenos community or any real foundation s for peace. Almost all the races actively loathe each other or seek their destruction; it's the only way perpetual war can be conceived in the hobby without eventually reaching reconciliation. The Eldar only help towards their own benefit, offering one hand while arming the other. The Tau are Space Marxists, and the Imperium hates everyone. The best you could expect is several variations of humans, maybe one sensible xenos mercenary, and stuff out of Necromunda.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Commander Shephard, there is Xenos filth on that planet. What should we do?
Paragon: Order Exterminatus, let us purge this filth!
Renegade: Prime the Thunderhawks, let us purge this filth!

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

How would a Mass Effect-style rpg work in the 40k universe? Could you get away with a human protagonist having xenos squadmates?

I’m pretty sure could just fudge up a story and roll with whatever happens if you’re a good enough DM.

 

[Crabbo]

How would a Mass Effect-style rpg work in the 40k universe? Could you get away with a human protagonist having xenos squadmates?

IF it were to happen, it would require an extreme and overwhelming threat to force people to cooperate. (such as a full hive fleet, or some shit)
And even then only a few races would willingly work together.
Eldar would, but would try to manipulate everyone the whole time.
Dark Eldar MIGHT, but would try their hardest to murder people the moment they thought they could manage it.
Orks… Prolly not, even with the promise of a hard fight to engage in.
Chaos... Naaaah. same problem as dark eldar even if they did.
Tau, would definitely work.
Any human based might, if the cause was dire enough to human territories. (prejudices have been suspended before in extreme cases)

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

How would a Mass Effect-style rpg work in the 40k universe? Could you get away with a human protagonist having xenos squadmates?

You'll need either an Inquisitor or a Rogue Trader, as both are the only individuals who can hire xenos canonically and not get a bolter shell to the head from nearby humans (and even that depends on the good graces of the people around them). Besides that, I don't know how you can do warp spells that reflect their power and danger, simply having cooldown powers doesn't really cut it. Maybe having empowered spells going bad actually affecting all your saved data for your characters (like dying in Pathologic 2).

 

[Burned Man]

You'll need either an Inquisitor or a Rogue Trader, as both are the only individuals who can hire xenos canonically and not get a bolter shell to the head from nearby humans (and even that depends on the good graces of the people around them). Besides that, I don't know how you can do warp spells that reflect their power and danger, simply having cooldown powers doesn't really cut it. Maybe having empowered spells going bad actually affecting all your saved data for your characters (like dying in Pathologic 2).

Yeah I was going to say that, Inquisitors and Rogue Traders have the power to tell anyone snooping around about their business to fuck off but even then other inquisitors especially the puritans would still come after you. I suppose either could probably drum up ways like pysker interference and tech to help disguise the xenos in polite company.

Cooperation would only really happen in terms subtle manipulation and at the individual or small group levels and would be very fleeting.