Warhammer 40k

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

So I'm seeing rumours that some keywords in stat profiles may be missing from the core rules and are being paywalled on the Warhammer app. Has anyone seen this or is it or is it simply the case of waiting two weeks to find out if that's actually happening?

 

[Brubby Two]

So I'm seeing rumours that some keywords in stat profiles may be missing from the core rules and are being paywalled on the Warhammer app. Has anyone seen this or is it or is it simply the case of waiting two weeks to find out if that's actually happening?

There might be some confusion about the early data sheets from the box and the ones we'll have when things kick off officially. The Wartrakk keeps losing and gaining Support warbikers as it gets shown off, I believe the version in the box has support warbikers on it but the pdf version does not. I assume it's just GW being retarded.

 

[Professor Donger]

Xenos are out

 

[p1138]

So I'm seeing rumours that some keywords in stat profiles may be missing from the core rules and are being paywalled on the Warhammer app. Has anyone seen this or is it or is it simply the case of waiting two weeks to find out if that's actually happening?

Need to just wait until the shit's all out. The chaplain is missing weapon options because it's only the datasheet from the armageddon box. The thunderhawk in the new space marine faction pack doesn't even fucking work with the new rules for aircraft(and it didn't lose the aircraft tag) but the grey knights datasheet for it did?), the necron doomsday ark is missing the frame tag, the ork faction pack has multiple formatting choices for the datasheets for some reason(might be the armageddon ones are different but it should be a template), necron players are assuming they can res characters repeatedly because their army rules wording wasn't part of the faction pack, I'm sure there's more issues.

You can't expect the small indie company that GW is to get anything right on initial release, and we still don't have most of the datasheets, points, any re-worked army rules, etc. I'd just wait a couple weeks before bothering to try and do any deep dive on it.

As far as core rules and stuff like the FAQ, and other questions being paywalled in the app, I don't think that'll be the case. It's not the case currently, it's just that GW decided to not print shit and the PDF is a copy of the printed book rather than "digital rules" from the app. It's the faction rules you need to buy the codex for, and army building you need the subscription for.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Most of the Warhammer games that have come out recently have been pretty decent and Battletech is still very much a niche franchise that's split between two owners

I was just talking about this in another thread. Shout out to @Skelter Helter who knows way more about this than me.

I made Razorfist (or his fans or moderators) mad when I mentioned that his assertions that 40k was a rip off of Battletech were false, as both games were super niche at the time, and because 40k came from a zine called Laserburn. Though Skelter Helter says it's more complex than that due to GW publishing Traveller at the time.

While we can argue if one company is woke or better, Battletech is limping along as a tabletop game, and I'd argue is living off the momentum of the popular PC games of the 90s.

Oddly enough, I'm considering getting into BT. I'm more interested in Alpha Strike, but that leads into what I wanted to ask about here and in the minis games thread.

---

What is the health of the hobby community?
Are there any "games in a box" or starter set where you actually get the full experience in the box?
Should I continue with Spearhead magazine, or abandon it?


This ties back into an earlier post about my main hobby friend quitting wargames in favour of airfix, at least for now.

I've been tempted by Deadzone, Battletech Alpha Strike. Or trying to list build an OPR game for him inspired by this series

and the knowledge that he owns the big 40k starter set means I should be able to build a list featuring his units.

 

[Professor Donger]

I made Razorfist (or his fans or moderators) mad when I mentioned that his assertions that 40k was a rip off of Battletech were false, as both games were super niche at the time, and because 40k came from a zine called Laserburn. Though Skelter Helter says it's more complex than that due to GW publishing Traveller at the time.

While we can argue if one company is woke or better, Battletech is limping along as a tabletop game, and I'd argue is living off the momentum of the popular PC games of the 90s.

Oddly enough, I'm considering getting into BT. I'm more interested in Alpha Strike, but that leads into what I wanted to ask about here and in the minis games thread.

---

What is the health of the hobby community?
Are there any "games in a box" or starter set where you actually get the full experience in the box?
Should I continue with Spearhead magazine, or abandon it?


This ties back into an earlier post about my main hobby friend quitting wargames in favour of airfix, at least for now.

I've been tempted by Deadzone, Battletech Alpha Strike. Or trying to list build an OPR game for him inspired by this series
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nkycSo-TpCU

Razorfist has a bad habit of thinking that everything he doesn't like is a rip-off of something he likes. Battletech is a very fun tabletop game. I played it at my local game store a few months ago and had a great time with it. I haven't touched Alpha Strike yet, though I want to. I think what I liked about it is that it felt like what I've heard people describe old 40k as, a casual beer and pretzels tabletop game that you just sit down, play, and shoot the shit the whole time. Hobby community-wise, for 40k, it's a mixed bag. My local community is very active and is doing a city-wide league right now that's running for eight weeks, the two hobby stores near me also constantly host 40k events and one of them just had an in-store tournament that was super casual.

As for "Game in a Box Starters," ehh, Combat Patrol is kind of supposed to be that, but it's not really, though I think you can still play the smaller armies with the full rules if you find someone willing to do so. The closest you'll get to the "full game in a box" experience for Warhammer are like the huge battleforce boxes that come out every so often, and even then, it's not enough for a full army. The Red Corsair one I sent below is like 750 points of units, when a full army is 2k points normally.




Keep in mind I'm still trying to figure out the tabletop aspect of 40k myself, someone else may have better insight than I do.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

What is the health of the hobby community?
Are there any "games in a box" or starter set where you actually get the full experience in the box?
Should I continue with Spearhead magazine, or abandon it?

Maybe Mantic's deadzone or firefight? Battletech also has pretty generous starter sets for two players
OPR should be a pretty easy transition, you can also find the premium rulebooks online pretty easily or if you dont want to be a pirate then its only 5 bucks on their patreon for every system's rulebook, but it would mean funding a furry

 

[Retreaded Tire]

 

[Professor Donger]

‘This changes the mission parameters. The orks control the hive’s defences,’ the Krieg colonel continued as if his counterpart had not spoken. Pre-empting the protest forming in Drakon’s throat, he added, ‘Compromised though they may be. We are now in a siege situation. My regiment are siege specialists. I also command the greater number of men, five thousand to your… What is your current strength?’



‘In the region of eighteen hundred,’ Drakon conceded, reluctantly. ‘The ordinates are still counting casualties. Let me show you to the war room.’

Started Krieg because I am a fast reader and needed to take a break from the Arbites book. I am constantly reminded that 40k authors are dog shit at scale. What do you mean there are only 6,800 soldiers defending a hive city from Orks? Maybe I'm retarded and this is an entire planet being defended and they're just one part of said defense? But that still feels way to small for some reason

 

[Kharash]

Started Krieg because I am a fast reader and needed to take a break from the Arbites book. I am constantly reminded that 40k authors are dog shit at scale. What do you mean there are only 6,800 soldiers defending a hive city from Orks? Maybe I'm retarded and this is an entire planet being defended and they're just one part of said defense? But that still feels way to small for some reason

Couldn't stand that book. Tries really hard to flanderize the DkoK, like you mentioned they can't into numbers and worst of all it keeps diving into the background of Krieg and Jurten to predictably terrible results. God forbid anything remains mysterious.
Stick to Imperial Armour.

 

[Professor Donger]

Couldn't stand that book. Tries really hard to flanderize the DkoK, like you mentioned they can't into numbers and worst of all it keeps diving into the background of Krieg and Jurten to predictably terrible results. God forbid anything remains mysterious.
Stick to Imperial Armour.

Yeah I'm about to drop it honestly. The way everyone is acting in this book just feels off and the DkoK come off terribly, Deadmen Walking was a much better read.

 

[p1138]

In more news of GW slowly trickling out information...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/8dl5ikuv/new40k-world-champions-top-5-changes/

4 – Points Updates​

The way points costs work is being updated in two main ways. First, there will be separate point costs for some wargear on units, allowing different weapon options to become viable choices. This change won't be on every unit with wargear, but units like Adepta Sororitas Retributors or Adeptus Mechanicus Ironstrider Ballistari will have a lower base cost, but pay points for their best wargear.*

Second, a new system of point steppers will typically increase the cost of some datasheets on your third unit. Some extremely powerful datasheets, like the Defiler, may have this additional cost if you take a second and third unit. This change will help with internal diversity for armies and encourage players to consider their other available options.

3 – Secondary Missions​

Secondary mission cards account for half of the total points you can score during a game. In the previous edition, it was possible to draw difficult-to-score cards multiple turns in a row. The new edition solves this issue entirely by allowing you to keep hold of any secondary cards you don't score for future turns when they might be easier to achieve. While you can only score up to 15 secondary points in any given turn**, this change provides players who are falling behind on the scoreboard plenty of opportunities to catch back up by the end of the game and turn their fortunes around.

The secondary change is fine. Means you're not just abandoning cards that you could have potentially scored later. But the points change, that could be so drastic that even sitting trying to build a list with what info we have is basically a waste of time.

 

[Professor Donger]

Someone called Razorfist out on his shit.


Razorfist, being a massive baby, struck out at them. Lmao talks about Warhammer having a fragile fanbase while being fragile about Battletech.

 

[Sunflower Samurai]

Someone called Razorfist out on his shit.
Wyświetl załącznik 9127130

Razorfist, being a massive baby, struck out at them. Lmao talks about Warhammer having a fragile fanbase while being fragile about Battletech.


Wyświetl załącznik 9127129

The monkey's paw will happen and the theorical Battletech CRPG will be the most pozzed CRPG since Baldur's Gate 3, i know Mechwarrior got away with pretty straightforward stories but when it comes to the people that circle around Battletech proper i doubt they would leave it unmolested as far as it comes to the poz

 

[p1138]

The monkey's paw will happen and the theorical Battletech CRPG will be the most pozzed CRPG since Baldur's Gate 3, i know Mechwarrior got away with pretty straightforward stories but when it comes to the people that circle around Battletech proper i doubt they would leave it unmolested as far as it comes to the poz

Don't they already have a bunch of gay tranny fanzines officially endorsed by CGL? Just writing a bunch of gay fanfic is one thing, but having the current publisher putting their stamp of approval on it is a different matter. Regardless, Razorfap is a fucking retard

 

[Professor Donger]

Don't they already have a bunch of gay tranny fanzines officially endorsed by CGL? Just writing a bunch of gay fanfic is one thing, but having the current publisher putting their stamp of approval on it is a different matter. Regardless, Razorfap is a fucking retard

They chased off a bunch of their book writers over their political views too, Specifically Blaine Pardoe who from my understanding was similar to Dan Abnett in that he established a lot of the settings lore. He wrote the original technical readouts and a lot of the past lore about different mechs.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Would the good warhammer games even be considered that good if they weren't warhammer? I know that sounds retarded, but like, is DoW really that special of a game other than being Warhammer? Is there nothing else in the genre from that time period that's just as good?
No one is gonna convince me either Space Marine game is actually good or does anything better than the other horde shooters available. They are the only ones that let you dress up as Space Marines, though.
Is mechanicus really that great a turn based game, or does it have a sick ass soundtrack and cool cog boys and Egyptian robots?
Even Rogue Trader is just Pathfinder with a Warhammer skin and less options for roleplay and build variety.

That's not to say every Warhammer is actually bad or unfun, but the brand is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

 

[God of Nothing]

Even Rogue Trader is just Pathfinder with a Warhammer skin and less options for roleplay and build variety.

painfully true
still like it but true

 

[Professor Donger]

Would the good warhammer games even be considered that good if they weren't warhammer? I know that sounds retarded, but like, is DoW really that special of a game other than being Warhammer? Is there nothing else in the genre from that time period that's just as good?
No one is gonna convince me either Space Marine game is actually good or does anything better than the other horde shooters available. They are the only ones that let you dress up as Space Marines, though.
Is mechanicus really that great a turn based game, or does it have a sick ass soundtrack and cool cog boys and Egyptian robots?
Even Rogue Trader is just Pathfinder with a Warhammer skin and less options for roleplay and build variety.

That's not to say every Warhammer is actually bad or unfun, but the brand is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

For Dawn of War, it was a big deal specifically because it was a Warhammer rts, but even then it was a pretty solid rts for its time, especially since most people were only used to like Age of Empires at that point, and maybe command and conquer but even those games were kind of niche.

Space Marine 1 was okay, but no one ever treated it as revolutionary

Space Marine 2 is a genuinely good game, even if you replaced it with like idk Space King or something. Rogue Trader very much is just Pathfinder in 40k which isn't necessarily bad but yeah.

The issue with razorfists argument though is he's arguing that all of these games that people received well or enjoyed are nothing but slop and bad.

Which isn't true, not every Warhammer game needs to be a 10/10 masterpiece, hell not every video game needs to be. When people point out a game that's good, a solid 6 or 7 out of ten experience he'll just go "Ah yes gears of war clone slop fest" or "age of empire clone slop fest."

But then if they ever make say a Battletech game that plays like xcom he'll shit all over himself, and when you point out that it's an xcom clone he'll say you're wrong and retarded and just hate Battletech.

 

[p1138]

That's not to say every Warhammer is actually bad or unfun, but the brand is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Sure, but even your example about Rogue Trader, the same could be said regarding Owlcat making a generic fantasy RPG instead of using Pathfinder as the setting. Narrative matters, and yes that means that the setting is allowed to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

This is also why bullshit like that ork speed freeks game isn't interesting, nor is boltgun if you've played any other boomer shooter in the past decade. At least boltgun was able to convince people who might not have otherwise bothered with a boomer shooter to try it simply because warhammer.

So yeah, branding/narrative matters. Hell, look at all of the Star Wars games over the years. RTS, RPG, Action, racing, fighter combat, etc. most of those games would have been ass or simply largely ignored without Star Wars bolted onto it. And it worked until Disney drove Star Wars into the ground.

That said, Battletech is not capable of doing that kind of heavy lifting. No one outside of the niche fanbase looks at Battletech and wonders what life as a random guy on a random planet is like. Some people in the niche fanbase don't give a shit what life as a pilot is like when they aren't piloting big stompy robots and shooting at other big stompy robots. There absolutely is lore in universe that can carry this shit along, but it's going to generate a fraction of the interest that Warhammer ever could.

There's no xenos, the main split between the "super-factions"(clan and inner sphere) isn't even that different just looking at it from the outside. Then looking at the sub factions, how do you actually describe the differences between say... Ghost Bear, Jade Falcon, Nova Cat, and Diamond Shark to someone who knows little about battletech in a short amount time(say, 5 minutes) and be able to get any specific details stated that might pique someone's interest? That's not to say there aren't differences, but you're not going to be able to get anyone interested with just a brief summary.