The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

Nothing strange here.

To be clear, Holocaust death toll by Apr 1943 was around 4 million according to orthodox historiography (1.5 mil killed by SS police, 2 mil in Reinhard camps and Chelmno, plus many from privation) so the crude estimate isn't that far off.

Also the article gives a rationale for how Unger arrived at the number. His methodology is clearly flawed but I don't see anything strange (conspiratorial?) about it.

It should be said that the Nazis referenced the "6 million" as well

 

[Drunk Smurf Lore]

You autists realize you all would have been liquidated by the German regime had you born way back then? That you would have received appointments to Asperger's clinic, and then some months later found yourselves fading from this world with a needle in your arm, or gasping for breath as your lungs fill with Zyklon B? Let me guess, that was all propaganda too?

This breathless appeal to emotion is always so funny to me. "Don't you realize the Nazis hated retards and you are retarded?" Oh dang very convincing.
Our arguments are that the National Socialist Germans didn't do anything immoral. They DIDN'T involve themselves with inefficient torture and execution of retards or browns or jews or whatever. When you come at us with histrionics like "THEY FED RETARDED KIDS INTO WOODCHIPPERS" it's obvious you're not even attempting to see our position. You're just lecturing us like a John Oliver bit. You believe Joseph Mengele was sewing kids together and injecting their eyes with dye like some Saw movie, then you turn around and berate us for being morons who believe in NatSoc wartime propaganda. Have some self-awareness.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

His methodology is clearly flawed but I don't see anything strange (conspiratorial?) about it.

You didn't see anything strange about that fat guy's lack of understanding about basic natural principles either, or about yourself inviting people to discuss their "paranoia" on a podcast, so I'm not sure if you're the best judge of what is and isn't strange.

Lucky that despite his "flawed methodology" that he got the number right 2 years in advance right? The number that is still used on holocaust museum websites and encyclopedia's and such. Very cohencidental.

 

[Gog & Magog]

This breathless appeal to emotion is always so funny to me. "Don't you realize the Nazis hated retards and you are retarded?" Oh dang very convincing.
Our arguments are that the National Socialist Germans didn't do anything immoral. They DIDN'T involve themselves with inefficient torture and execution of retards or browns or jews or whatever. When you come at us with histrionics like "THEY FED RETARDED KIDS INTO WOODCHIPPERS" it's obvious you're not even attempting to see our position. You're just lecturing us like a John Oliver bit. You believe Joseph Mengele was sewing kids together and injecting their eyes with dye like some Saw movie, then you turn around and berate us for being morons who believe in NatSoc wartime propaganda. Have some self-awareness.

I wasn't speaking about Joseph Mengele. I was talking about more common men like Hans Asperger whose expertise aided authorities in more readily identifying autistic children. All the children he saw were later transferred to another clinic to be murdered. Do you believe this too is a lie?
Oh and one more thing; when a man is secure in his beliefs, he comes across as confident, something you do not.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

One could use the same argument to say The German People deserved the mass expulsions and rapes by the Soviet army. However, that'd be depraved wouldn't it? What kinda sick fuck believes in reprisal against whole races?

What kind of sick fuck indeed.

Jewish politician in germany:

Jewish convention:

(They got in hot water in 2010 for embezzling millions)
Jewish professor:

(Only watch the first half of the video)
He talks about how his ideas that whiteness must be eradicated are well received in academia and never have been censored anywhere.

Further, morgenthau believed in it, obviously, the US secretary of treasury, who's 5th in line for the presidency.

The soviets believed in it almost completely, from Stalin to his propagandists to the soldiers.





And then we rely completely on soviet sources for the holocaust numbers, considering that all allied territory death camps are later forensically shown to not have been death camps.

 

[Chugger]

You didn't see anything strange about that fat guy's lack of understanding about basic natural principles either, or about yourself inviting people to discuss their "paranoia" on a podcast, so I'm not sure if you're the best judge of what is and isn't strange.

don't forget the time I ran cover for Google for changing their dictionary to protect the holocaust myth

Lucky that despite his "flawed methodology" that he got the number right 2 years in advance right? The number that is still used on holocaust museum websites and encyclopedia's and such. Very cohencidental.

In 1943, given widespread reports of mass shootings in the east and numerous extermination centers in Poland, you think it's surprising that a histrionic Jew might think the Nazis had killed virtually all the Jews under their control? (which was indeed around 6 million)

Jewish professor:
(Only watch the first half of the video)
He talks about how his ideas that whiteness must be eradicated

I think we talked about Ignatiev earlier, a conversation you sadly bailed on, but it is telling that even in that vid which seems edited to make him look bad, he calls whiteness a "social category". He's talking about eradicating an idea that he sees (perhaps wrongly) as oppressive, not a group of people.

That soldiers of the Red Army raped women and killed civilians is definitely bad, but why do you think Germany invaded Poland and the USSR? This wasn't even a "reprisal against a whole race", but the geopolitical equivalent of robbery + murder. Plans were made to deport half the population, and use the rest for labor, with predictions of 20-30 million civilians dead. Women were raped as well, or forced into field brothels at the disposal of the Wehrmacht.

This is the other side of the story.

we rely completely on soviet sources for the holocaust numbers

Going back, I've posted a lot about numbers in this thread. What's a single "Soviet source" I've used? Do you think the Hoefle telegram, the most definitive document of this kind, is a "Soviet source"?

 

[Bonesjones]

Lmao did Chugger really just go "for no reason at all Hitler started attacking everyone?"

 

[Chugger]

Lmao did Chugger really just go "for no reason at all Hitler started attacking everyone?"

So in the case of Poland, what kind of evidence might convince you that Hitler didn't invade over the Danzig dispute (his stated reason), but rather to acquire lebensraum and resources?

 

[mrolonzo]

So in the case of Poland, what kind of evidence might convince you that Hitler didn't invade over the Danzig dispute (his stated reason), but rather to acquire lebensraum and resources?

Have you read Udo Walendy on the German position ? Or does that not interest you?

Also you assert that germans had six million Jews under their control. We've been over that already. Did you bring something up in response to my clear evidence as a counter argument that I missed?

With all the recent changes it may have slipped by me. Its important that people like you aren't allowed to get at with any more bullshit I'm sure you will agree.

 

[mrolonzo]

don't forget the time I ran cover for Google for changing their dictionary to protect the holocaust myth


In 1943, given widespread reports of mass shootings in the east and numerous extermination centers in Poland, you think it's surprising that a histrionic Jew might think the Nazis had killed virtually all the Jews under their control? (which was indeed around 6 million)

Not only is it surprising. It's completely untenable as accurate reportage but it is possible as taking the dramatic propaganda of the polish delagatura who pumped out deliberate and proven lies regularly at the time, from 1941 in fact.

I think we talked about Ignatiev earlier, a conversation you sadly bailed on, but it is telling that even in that vid which seems edited to make him look bad, he calls whiteness a "social category". He's talking about eradicating an idea that he sees (perhaps wrongly) as oppressive, not a group of people.

He wants to eradicate the sense of identity of an ethnic population that built the country and every country they have majority in. Basically. This is irrefutable.

That soldiers of the Red Army raped women and killed civilians is definitely bad, but why do you think Germany invaded Poland and the USSR? This wasn't even a "reprisal against a whole race", but the geopolitical equivalent of robbery + murder. Plans were made to deport half the population, and use the rest for labor, with predictions of 20-30 million civilians dead. Women were raped as well, or forced into field brothels at the disposal of the Wehrmacht.

This is the other side of the story.

Germans lived in large numbers throughout the eastern areas long before so this was simply about finally rationalizing the ethnic make up of the area to establish a long term peace and the poles were only too happy to rob Germany previously even without defeating them in battle. Women were not raped, I think we've been over this. They were offered the opportunity to provide brothel services. This was common at the time and still goes on today.

Going back, I've posted a lot about numbers in this thread. What's a single "Soviet source" I've used? Do you think the Hoefle telegram, the most definitive document of this kind, is a "Soviet source"?

The telegram is not a Soviet source. It's a source long addressed in revisionism as showing that the ar camps were transit camps.

 

[Chugger]

He wants to eradicate the sense of identity of an ethnic population that built the country and every country they have majority in. Basically. This is irrefutable.

Wrong. He thinks it's a fake identity and one that exists to confer advantages to people who look a certain way. He contrasts this to Irish and Italian culture

But anyway, his views are not remotely genocidal as @Lemmingwise was suggesting, and he's a piss poor example of Jewish racism against white people. Ignatiev calls out Jewish racism just as hard and also doesn't believe that it is a valid identity

 

[Chugger]

Have you read Udo Walendy on the German position ? Or does that not interest you?

Yeah I've read 'Truth for Germany'. I debated this topic with the very knowledgeable Otium on Codoh and this book kept coming up. Walendy thinks the evidence concerning German plans is fabricated and flat out ignores a lot of it.

Germans lived in large numbers throughout the eastern areas long before so this was simply about finally rationalizing the ethnic make up of the area to establish a long term peace and the poles were only too happy to rob Germany previously even without defeating them in battle.

Well we can see that German minority in Poland was fairly small, and primarily around the Danzig area (almost none in the corridor!)

And we can also see that Germany also had a significant Polish minority. This is of the German empire territory but there were areas with lots of Poles that remained in Germany post 1918, such as Opole in the south east.

If Hitler had really been a fair guy, all about "rationalizing ethnic makeup" of an area, he would have offered to give back parts of the Opole region that were 70% + Polish to Poland in exchange for Danzig. But instead Nazis conducted expulsions in this area starting in 1938.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

I have a feeling this thread will head to spergatory soon.

Years on and still not in spergatory.

 

[Alex Hogendorp]

I just found out Canada has passed a law that bans questioning the politically correct holocaust narrative which could mean I can be sent to prison even for this post alone. The bitterly ironic thing about this is that Canada has already installed death camps all around the country the government never told us.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

I just found out Canada has passed a law that bans questioning the politically correct holocaust narrative which could mean I can be sent to prison even for this post alone. The bitterly ironic thing about this is that Canada has already installed death camps all around the country the government never told us.

It is a de jure development, but in practise it was already the case. Just look at Ernst Zundel and how he was deported to Germany so that he could be tried for holocaust denial there.

One of his crimes was coauthoring the pamphlet "did 6 million really die", something which even the defenders of the holocaust in this thread rarely defend anymore, but which was still staunchly defended back then.



I don't take these claims at face value, but it's worth pointing out that even back then such a fairly mild claim would be regarded as "inciting racial hatred". And you can see how it undermines Chugger's begging the question for resettlement docs, as it presumes a larger number of jews sitting unmoving both prior and post and world war.

 

[Chugger]

I don't take these claims at face value, but it's worth pointing out that even back then such a fairly mild claim would be regarded as "inciting racial hatred". And you can see how it undermines Chugger's begging the question for resettlement docs, as it presumes a larger number of jews sitting unmoving both prior and post and world war.

From the article

Actually the guy who wrote that article just didn't read Korherr closely enough

When talking about the numbers of Jews in the USSR, Korherr says "The newly acquired Eastern Territories (except for Danzig) are not included in the statistics. These figures cannot be calculated."

and: "Moreover, it was not possible to count all of the deaths of the Soviet Russian Jews in the occupied Eastern Territories while those in the remaining European part of Russia and on the front have not been included at all."

But this talk of numbers and resettlement I don't find convincing, because even if 3 million Jews weren't "resettled" by Nazis, but 1 million, or even 100,000, there would still be some evidence of their resettlement, just like there is a lot of evidence for resettlement of Jews in Romanian occupied USSR, as Rapechu discovered long ago

PS: We've talked about Katyn and war crime denial laws in this thread so this might be relevant https://polishnews.co.uk/the-czech-...-stand-trial-for-denying-the-crimes-in-katyn/

 

[Lemmingwiser]

PS: We've talked about Katyn and war crime denial laws in this thread so this might be relevant https://polishnews.co.uk/the-czech-...-stand-trial-for-denying-the-crimes-in-katyn/

Legit interesting article, cheers.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

The deaths of millions of Jews in Europe 1933-1945 is far better documented than most supposed genocides. Denying that millions of Jews (and others) died in that period offers a bad explanation of the facts on the ground.

All of these deniers would find more fruitful ground turning their methodology to supposed genocides with far worse documentation with even less evidence like the so-called "Holodomor" under Stalin. There's a far more legitimate case for the actual death toll being far lower. Incidentally, there are many countries where it is illegal to deny the so-called Holodomor and in much of Western academia it is forbidden to question it due to the network of pro-NATO, anti-Russian professors, including CIA-recruited Ukrainians. IMO Pol Pot's so-called "Killing Fields" also make a good case for revisionism.

 

[Matajudios]

The deaths of millions of Jews in Europe 1933-1945 is far better documented than most supposed genocides. Denying that millions of Jews (and others) died in that period offers a bad explanation of the facts on the ground.

All of these deniers would find more fruitful ground turning their methodology to supposed genocides with far worse documentation with even less evidence like the so-called "Holodomor" under Stalin. There's a far more legitimate case for the actual death toll being far lower. Incidentally, there are many countries where it is illegal to deny the so-called Holodomor and in much of Western academia it is forbidden to question it due to the network of pro-NATO, anti-Russian professors, including CIA-recruited Ukrainians. IMO Pol Pot's so-called "Killing Fields" also make a good case for revisionism.

So, the Holobunga has been heckin' fact checked by all the wholesome sources like Hollywood, which of course never lies nor has any conflict of interest. That's why this thread is full of single-issue shills too.

First of all, Stalin was Georgian, Lenin a Churka-Jewish mutt and Trotsky an uberkike. Nothing Russian about the Soviet Union. But nice try, Chaim.
Since the Kulaks and others were mostly illiterate peasants and with Soviet killlers patriotic heroes like Yagoda doing their best to eradicate all traces it's no surprise that there aren't many sources. It's very likely that no one would have known about Katyn, a whole division executed, if the Wehrmacht hadn't discovered it. History is written by the winners.

 

[Neo-Holstien]

The deaths of millions of Jews in Europe 1933-1945 is far better documented than most supposed genocides. Denying that millions of Jews (and others) died in that period offers a bad explanation of the facts on the ground.

All of these deniers would find more fruitful ground turning their methodology to supposed genocides with far worse documentation with even less evidence like the so-called "Holodomor" under Stalin. There's a far more legitimate case for the actual death toll being far lower. Incidentally, there are many countries where it is illegal to deny the so-called Holodomor and in much of Western academia it is forbidden to question it due to the network of pro-NATO, anti-Russian professors, including CIA-recruited Ukrainians. IMO Pol Pot's so-called "Killing Fields" also make a good case for revisionism.

I mean they are all over blown, the Holodomor probably has the most deaths at a few hundred thousands due to miss management and vengeful kikes