Mega Rad Gun Thread

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193 and M855 are dog shit designed for a war that never happened and compliance with The Hague Convention. Both perform like absolute dogshit on unarmored targets while zipping through too much dry wall.

MK262 and its clones are the way to go.
The fragmentation effect of M193 is well documented, I don't know what the fuck you're smoking.
 
Yeah I'm not going to quote all that. The following is a PSA.

Gentlemen we need to talk about terminal ballistics and ammo, and why "Stopping Power" is silly to talk about in a home defense scenario.

Bullets only kill people one of two ways: 1. Drastic loss of blood pressure (bleed out/heart stopped) 2. Neurological kill (brain)

You do not have the luxury of waiting for them to bleed out in CQB ranges. You should assume that they will fight back until they can't. You need to shoot them until you achieve one of the above, which means either many holes, or one well placed shot. Bleed out matters much more as the range opens up, hitting a guy 500yds away who dies 15mins later is a pretty good deal. Same cannot be said when he can nearly reach you physically.

Rifle bullets typically behave one of or in combination of three ways when hitting a person (by design or otherwise). Fragmentation, deformation, and tumbling.

Fragmentation occurs with the rapid deceleration of the bullet, resulting in an explosion like burst into lots of tiny pieces.
Deformation occurs when the bullet meets resistance that reshapes it, deliberately or not.
Tumble (or lack thereof) occurs when the bullet changes, or technically adds, a new axis to its rotation.

M193 and Green tips are velocity dependent rounds that are designed to fragment well. Their performance diminishes as velocity does. But also of note, their penetrative depth also wildly affects the trajectory of those fragments. These give seemingly devastating wounds at high velocities, but lack predictable and dependable wound channels, which leads to the often touted stories of 5.56/.223 lacking stopping power (https://digitalcommons.pcom.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1004&context=transitional_year_residents) while simultaneously offering no shortage of one shot stops (Rittenhouse). Say you land a round in the thoracic cavity, maybe you explode his lung depending on your and his luck, maybe you put a .22 sized hole through it. Maybe one of those fragments nicks his heart, maybe several do.

You want good defensive ammo built to deform (like the hollow points in your conceal carry). Even with the (rather unpatriotic I might say) fixation on home defense ranges. Modern defensive rounds are built with more weight, imparting more energy and mass and to wound through much more predictable and uniform deformation, which leads to uniform fragmentation, much shallower in the intended target then ye old 55gr fmj. This leads to consistently more lethal rounds across all ranges, this means you hit the important things, statistically, in fewer rounds. It matters. If it didn't matter you wouldn't be holding a gun in that exact moment.

Tumble is a bit self explanatory, it is the least effective and reliable way to incur damage and mostly comes up at long range for 193 or m855 at long ranges or pistol calibers. Won't elaborate here.

Buy high grain modern defensive ammo and zero on it for the gun you keep in the bedroom.

Edit/PS: Please stop telling people to aim for the nuts/pelvis. The logic of this does not apply to you and is hardly even taught any more to the guys it does. Heads and hearts. Not "center mass". Heads, hearts.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
You Americans with your fancy 5.56 rounds and 17 different M4 barrel lengths never ever shut up.

I switched my Mav88 to a Hatsan Prostitute Escort because it feeds 9 pellet 1350fps 00 buckshot reliably and 6 shells of that will decapitate up to 6 niggers. (I'm aiming at the upper chest/neck area so it's a real possibility), a home invasion is by far the most likely scenario for you to defensively use a long arm.

>but I'm a real sheepdawg and I wanna hunt commie trannies
Honestly then distance, a nice bolt action and reading Fry the Brain is what you probably should do in that case, at least in my humble opinion.

Yes I'm fuddmaxxing and I'm having a great time doing it.
 
Please stop telling people to aim for the nuts/pelvis. The logic of this does not apply to you and is hardly even taught any more to the guys it does. Heads and hearts. Not "center mass". Heads, hearts.
I will continue advocating for people to shoot aggressors in the dick in defense situations and there isn't a single thing you can do about it. You know what isn't logical? Telling people to aim for more difficult targets when most people shoot twice a year at a flat range.

If you're gonna mag dump the aggressor because you lack training anyways, the dick is a better target. If you're an autistic high speed retard that shoots a few thousand rounds a month then you can obviously do whatever your 36 layer defensive plan entails.
 
It was designed for 20” barrels. On a 10-11” it’s already on the verge of losing enough velocity to stop fragmenting.

There’s dozens of better options for civilians.
I mean more lethality is always better but for the average home defense encounters (less than 15 yards) you could run a 10.5 carbine and still get reliable fragmentation with m193. Assuming you're going to run a 10.5 at 200-300 yards then yeah you're going to want to run the heavier stuff but at that distance you're either in a SHTF cenario or you're straight murdering someone.

edit-
kek whoops everyone basically said what i just said. But yeah shoot whatever you want just please train and learn hold overs for your gun. When training have a mag loaded with somthing you're not zero'd for just to practice holds. Remember realistically 70% of gun owners only really shoot a handful of times a year.
 
Shoot home invaders in the pelvic girdle and you don't have to worry about how cool your chosen defense round is. Not only will they be out of the fight immediately, they'll bleed out before the sirens even get close so they can't sue you.
Zipper drill.
Start shooting at the crotch, keep shooting as the gun recoils up stopping with the face.
 
Actually, just shoot them in the face.

I'm seeking explanation now why many of you guys aren't shooting people in the face.
I have to agree. Even in a tense situation I'm pretty sure my mediocre shooting skills could put buckshot or a .38+P slug into the center of a melon-sized target like a human head at average home defense/defensive shooting range.
 
Larger target.
Easier to hit under stress.
Consider this: you are not any more likely to hit a large ambiguous target then you are a small clearly defined one.

Surely you've heard the old addage of "aim small miss small".

Go to the range. Shoot center of mass on human form target at 10yds. Note groups. Now cut a slit in it and stick a playing card or index card in your target so that its edge is facing you high center mass. Then head to the 10yd line. It should essentially disapear from your vision being so thin.

Now, shoot it. Examine your groups and note how nice and tight it is even if you failed to cut the card compared to the first group.

Most people's performance drops by like 75% when bullets are going both ways. The remedy to this is quality information applied to higher standards. If you think you are increasing hit probability by giving yourself an easier target in reality you are just widening your misses even more. Good job friendo, your nieghbor really liked that dog.
 
HK P30's can be had for around $700 or less. They are a "USP", sort of.

They use VP9 sights, and fit in VP9 holsters, so you can easily find gear for HK's past mistake as its all compatible with its current one, more or less. HK tax for magazines isn't that bad, either. (again, it uses VP9 magazines, of which there are many).
As someone who has a VP9 and a P30L, I have not had a lot of luck getting VP9 holsters working with the P30. The P30 is slightly wider where the slide meets the frame. This makes fitting it in a well fitting kydex holster harder. That said the P30 has ok support for holsters if you are right handed. Left handed like me is way harder, especially once you get into custom optics cuts and weapon lights.

All I want for Christmas is for HK to release factory optic cut P30's.

That and for USPs to get cloned and become the next 2011.
 
As someone who has a VP9 and a P30L, I have not had a lot of luck getting VP9 holsters working with the P30. The P30 is slightly wider where the slide meets the frame. This makes fitting it in a well fitting kydex holster harder. That said the P30 has ok support for holsters if you are right handed. Left handed like me is way harder, especially once you get into custom optics cuts and weapon lights.

All I want for Christmas is for HK to release factory optic cut P30's.

That and for USPs to get cloned and become the next 2011.

My carry holsters all seem to interchange.

I wish HK would hurry up with a "P30A1" so that I could buy one of those, or even just a slide with an optic cut for my current P30S. Really kicking around sending off to LTT for one of their cuts and plates.
 
My carry holsters all seem to interchange.

I wish HK would hurry up with a "P30A1" so that I could buy one of those, or even just a slide with an optic cut for my current P30S. Really kicking around sending off to LTT for one of their cuts and plates.
For the record, I tried with two Tier 1 concealed holsters that were specifically made for the VP9. They weren't universal holsters. My go to holster for my P30L is my expensive safariland hoslter on my battle belt. I need a normal OWB for a carry belt but am waiting for another sale.

This guy's channel has pushed me over to Wright Armory's system over Langdon tactical: DeFendCo's YouTube channel.

My goal is to buy a USP Expert and get it cut to use as a match pistol and maybe buy a regular P30 to get cut too.
 
I'm seeking explanation now why many of you guys aren't shooting people in the face.
Where I am located a meth head seeking copper is possible but highly unlikely and I'm more worried about getting my 3 if they ever try confiscation hence the shooting where body armor is unlikely. Although at those ranges you probably have a point about head shots.
 
Where I am located a meth head seeking copper is possible but highly unlikely and I'm more worried about getting my 3 if they ever try confiscation hence the shooting where body armor is unlikely. Although at those ranges you probably have a point about head shots.
>holding gun at high ready
>see bad guy
>feel strong compulsion to blow off his penis
>sweep gun down to adjust aim 3 feet lower then where my sights naturally were resting instead of 6 inches higher towards his face
>overshoot because I'm making a large adjustment with high adrenaline
>bullet hits the floor between his legs
>my head gets blown off a millisecond later because he made a smaller finer movement


It could happen to you.
 
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