Is heaven real?

[Hulkster]

Hey Kiwis, I am very interested in discussing this topic. So recently I was reading about theology and read this article about the Seventh-day Adventist Church and their belief in annihilationism, meaning on the judgement day evil souls will be annihilated, but Christian souls will be resurrected. But until the judgement day, according to this belief, we rot in the ground, much like atheists believe. This has fascinated me—learning about the differing views of hell. When growing up I was basically taught sinners go to hell and Christians don't, so my question is simple: is heaven real or a man-made fiction?

P.S. I'm looking for Christian responses, but atheists are free to chime in.

 

[Cat tit bingo]

I hope it's real.

 

[dissociating]

It could be real. It could not be. There's so many arguments you could play out for both sides. But truthfully I do not know myself. But with the concept of the human soul as a whole and the fact we even posess a consciousness in the first place it seems almost cruel for us to be aware of what we are and our conscious reality that we percieve as living souls only for our existence to burn out in the end. Personally I think there is more to life than what we really know. But my personal beliefs are that there is a God. But not a God in a traditional sense. God was always here. It's the universe itself that is a hypothetical God. It created us. It programmed us. It's omnipresent. It chooses what happens to us. It controls us. When you die you return to the universe as one with it. So in my personal beliefs I believe there is a heaven of some sort when we return to being one with the universe but not one we can comprehend in a physical form. It's a schizo take but interpret it however you like.

 

[Elf Supremacist]

I am Christian and believe that Heaven (and Hell) are both very real and everyone goes to one or the other after death.
Seventh Day Adventists are fascinating, however, they don't believe Jesus died for our sins nevessarily. Their belief is more that Jesus died to move the sins to Satan (the scapegoat) (IIRC). If you want to know more a Christian podcast called Cultish did an episode that goes into greater detail, with others after the fact. They're Presbyterians who interview people who were in a cult who left after finding Christ.
The belief that hellbound souls will be destroyed on impact with the Lake of Fire is untrue and unbiblical, there is nothing in Scripture to support it. Soul sleep is a hotly debated topic as well.
OP, I'd be more than happy to discuss this with you, your interests make me feel like we'd have much to talk about.

 

[Divine Power]

Heaven is realer than our whole existence. Do bad stuff and you will not go there; do good stuff and you will probably go there.

"However, as it is written: 'What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived'—the things God has prepared for those who love him—" This verse speaks to the unimaginable and surpassing glory of heaven, suggesting that its beauty and joy are beyond human comprehension.

"'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. '"This verse from the Book of Revelation describes the ultimate state of heaven, where suffering, sorrow, and death are completely eliminated.

There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign forever and ever."

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

Heaven is realer than our whole existence. Do bad stuff and you will not go there; do good stuff and you will probably go there.

"However, as it is written: 'What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived'—the things God has prepared for those who love him—" This verse speaks to the unimaginable and surpassing glory of heaven, suggesting that its beauty and joy are beyond human comprehension.

"'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. '"This verse from the Book of Revelation describes the ultimate state of heaven, where suffering, sorrow, and death are completely eliminated.

There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign forever and ever."

Did you generate this with AI?

 

[MadStan]

Take comfort in knowing it is not real. Life is much richer and rewarding knowing what you do here and now counts and I would worry about you personally if you felt your actions and motivations were driven by a selfish desire for eternity in hell or heaven and that it took bribing you to make you a better person to others.

 

[Nigger Cattle]

sinners go to hell and Christians don't,

That was just an useful way to control people back in the day, make up some type of rule and then try to enforce it at an almost subconscious level so people don't fuck around too much.
I'm an atheist but i'm not against religion when it serves to give people some purpose in life and to help them overcome obstacles in their life, but the church used to do some fucked up shit when there wasn't a division between church and state, so fuck them and their rules.

 

[Divine Power]

Did you generate this with AI?

But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:29

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

I’ll do a more comprehensive explanation later. But I want to leave you all with this: if heaven was made up, then it is awful cruel to imagine a place like Heaven if we can never reach it. I’d rather choose to believe it’s real.

 

[Mike Matei's Penis]

Ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth?
Ooh, Heaven is a place on Earth

 

[Disastrously Dumb]

I have Hope that if an afterlife does exist
it matters not what religion you're a part of but based on your actions in life that deem your entry
A heaven that is restricted solely on religion isnt heaven at all, Imagine going to a Heaven and your mom or dad or wife isnt in it because they were following different religions or none at all. That must suck.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

I hope something exist after this life. Just hope its more pleasant then this life.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

The bible describes heaven a lot more than hell. However, there are some details that defy our limited perception to imagine heaven. The apostle John gives a brief account of what he saw when he wrote Revelations during his exile on the island of Patmos, but do keep in mind this is through the lens of a 1st century A.D. man who could scarcely comprehend what he saw, and merely wrote it down verbatim: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 21;&version=NIV

Now on to the detailed characteristics of heaven,
-the new earth will have no sea (Isaiah 65:17)
-there will be no moon or sun (Revelation 21:23)
-gravity will either be absent or greatly reduced (Revelation 21:2, 16)
-No more pain, suffering or death (Revelation 7:17, 21:4)
-Believers will receive a new body (1 Corinthians 15:42-44)

Heaven is described from Revelation 21 as a 12,000 stadia, or when converted, a 1,500 mile square "cube". Anything this large would become a sphere in our universe, so gravity is either absent or radically different. The lack of ocean implies there is little or no water cycle as well, since water would need gravity to rain. Plus the absence of a sun may imply no laws of thermodynamics either. This lack of photons would normally make it impossible to "see", but this new earth is illuminated by the glory of God instead. Along with there being no pain, there is no need for healing, and no need for food implies no hunger, it is safe to assume the laws of thermodynamics may be completely absent.

 

[Richard_Wetpasta]

If you choose to look at it even from a secular view the values promote wellbeing and high trust communities outside the afterlife. I very much like the rhetoric that heaven and hell are also states of being that can occur now rather than just in the afterlife.

They're not guaranteed but the culmination of your actions will reflect over time on the quality of your life, and the worst part is they can suck people who associate with you into a pit of negativity. But they you can also help people into higher thresholds by at least trying to be the best you can by not being a pit of negative behaviors.

Since I don't know what lies in the afterlife I'd like to shoot for making my life and others as positive as possible in the current life.

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

-gravity will either be absent or greatly reduced (Revelation 21:2, 16)

I am pretty sure that Revelations 21:2, 16 do not state that and it's disingenuous to claim that as a valid interpretation.

Revelation 21:16 specifically states: "And the city lay foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth of it, and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs: and the length, and the breadth, and the height of it are equal." The statement barely changes even in NIV: "The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long." To be clear, Revelation 21:2 (NIV) is as follows: "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband."

-the new earth will have no sea (Isaiah 65:17)

This you also misattribute to Isaiah's when the interpretation fits Revelation 21:1 (NIV) much better: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

What is it with specifically Internet Christians misquoting the scriptures with passages hallucinated by AI? Being generous, I still cannot see how you could infer "gravity will either be absent or greatly reduced" from Revelation 21:2, 16 and you switch up Revelation with Isaiah's. It's shameful and I know you didn't fucking read it yourself.

Edit: If I am somehow misquoting the scripture, feel free to correct me.

 

[finallyfalling]

Belief in heaven is rooted in two things: fear of death and the idea that humans are special.

We want to believe in heaven because it's disconcerting to think about we can in one moment be something, and in the next nothing. It goes against our understanding of the world, but that's simply how it is. We invented heaven as a means of coping with that.

We like to believe we're special, but we aren't. I step on an ant and it dies, that's it. We are those ants, we just followed a different evolutionary path. There's no reason why we'd go to heaven but the trees, the bacteria on door handles, or the cells in our skin, wouldn't. Yet to think that those simpler life forms would go to heaven is absurd. Why would our oversupply of neurons qualify us for the afterlife?

Not that I'm entirely materialistic. We came from nothing, that doesn't make sense. It does lead me to believe there is something. What is that something? I don't know.

 

[Dagoth AMOGUS]

I am pretty sure that Revelations 21:2, 16 do not state that and it's disingenuous to claim that as a valid interpretation.


Edit: If I am somehow misquoting the scripture, feel free to correct me.

It’s because anything 1,500 square miles would collapse into a sphere due to laws of gravity in our world. If an object that size remains a cube-shape, there is no force pulling it inward

 

[Elf Supremacist]

I am pretty sure that Revelations 21:2, 16 do not state that and it's disingenuous to claim that as a valid interpretation.

gravity will either be absent or greatly reduced (Revelation 21:2, 16)

This is the first time I have heard this interpretation of gravity being reduced or nonexistent. I can see why one would draw that conclusion because the math checks out, but I think when dealing with an infinite god who created all things, he can bend or break the rules as he sees fit, especially after making it all new again.

there will be no moon or sun

This is another conclusion that is just an assumption. There is no need for it, as scripture states, but it will not necessarily be absent. I don't think these assumptions are heretical, but I do think they are wild/misguided. Still cool to think about though

Now, the real question is why there will not be a sea and if the antediluvian Earth had a sea or not? Thoughts?

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

It’s because anything 1,500 square miles would collapse into a sphere due to laws of gravity in our world. If an object that size remains a cube-shape, there is no force pulling it inward

Wait, am I misinterpreting Revelation 21:16 or does it not refer to a city rather than a literal cube? Besides, a city can have an area of 1,500 square miles (12,000 stadia). The Tokyo Metropolitan Area is like 5,000 square miles.