Debate the Ethics of Vic Mignogna - TARD FIGHT

[Eyeshield]

Have you folks seen the depositions and all that such stuff?

Most people have, yes. Often live.

 

[The Phantom on the Hill]

Most people have, yes. Often live.

Haven't seem them live, but after watching them and reading excerpts, there's no question in my mind about Vic's character.

 

[GethN7]

At the end of the day, despite any personal biases I might hold, I'm like John Adams when he decided to defend the soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre: EVERYONE deserves a chance to defend their names before a court of law, the court of public opinion can not and should not suffice.

Vic has admitted to infidelity, problems with boundaries, and diva-like behavior, under oath. Do I like that? Aside from the honesty to admit such, no, but his honesty is appreciated, especially concerning the first item.

Do I believe Vic is otherwise guilty of anything he is accused of? No, I don't. However, should he be, then the court of public opinion can rightfully pillory him AFTER a court of law has sustained or denied the merits of the accusations.

Ultimately, I want both sides to present their defenses, as best they can, and I want the matter settled by an unbiased court of law since the court of public opinion is polarized and grotesquely skewed to extreme ends.

Whatever is decided by the court of law is the decision I will consider to be fair to both sides.

Until then, I am more than happy await that, and regardless of his guilt or innocence, Vic deserves the chance to defend his name as best he can. If he can't, so be it. If he can, also so be it.

 

[The Phantom on the Hill]

At the end of the day, despite any personal biases I might hold, I'm like John Adams when he decided to defend the soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre: EVERYONE deserves a chance to defend their names before a court of law, the court of public opinion can not and should not suffice.

Vic has admitted to infidelity, problems with boundaries, and diva-like behavior, under oath. Do I like that? Aside from the honesty to admit such, no, but his honesty is appreciated, especially concerning the first item.

Do I believe Vic is otherwise guilty of anything he is accused of? No, I don't. However, should he be, then the court of public opinion can rightfully pillory him AFTER a court of law has sustained or denied the merits of the accusations.

Ultimately, I want both sides to present their defenses, as best they can, and I want the matter settled by an unbiased court of law since the court of public opinion is polarized and grotesquely skewed to extreme ends.

Whatever is decided by the court of law is the decision I will consider to be fair to both sides.

Until then, I am more than happy await that, and regardless of his guilt or innocence, Vic deserves the chance to defend his name as best he can. If he can't, so be it. If he can, also so be it.

It's a good attitude to have, and I wish more people would be neutral instead of assuming all the accusers are lying.

Personally, there's too many stories and testimonies for all of them to be lying. Vic even admitted under oath that he grabbed Marchi's hair (he only objected to the term "pull").

At the end of the day, I'm not sure he did any of these things maliciously, but he does need to face consequences for his actions.

 

[Immaculate Ape]

Haven't seem them live, but after watching them and reading excerpts, there's no question in my mind about Vic's character.

It's a good attitude to have, and I wish more people would be neutral instead of assuming all the accusers are lying.

Personally, there's too many stories and testimonies for all of them to be lying. Vic even admitted under oath that he grabbed Marchi's hair (he only objected to the term "pull").

At the end of the day, I'm not sure he did any of these things maliciously, but he does need to face consequences for his actions.

You should probably watch the videos before jumping to any conclusions based on your text-based ingesting of the deposition.

The "too many stories" argument is for smooth-brains. If you can't wrap your head around civil conspiracy, and the fact that 3 separate parties of witnesses are now linked together by the Tuttle Group, and you can't see how that could point to any possible collusion, then you need to re-evaluate your bias on the subject, because you're not neutral.

One of the Yost twins worked with Toye at the Tuttle Group, the twins LIVED with Monica and Toye. Jamie Marchi's SO is a Jr. Partner of the Tuttle Group. Rumors are that everyone in Funimation have very friendly relationships.

So don't for a second think that this is as simple as "white man bad". The volume of allegations without any reports or evidence, or even people to come forward with valid or relevant testimony, should raise a flag as to their authenticity. More stories does not make more truth, this isn't Invader Zim.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Personally, there's too many stories and testimonies for all of them to be lying.

How many testimonies did it take for them to have credibility?

 

[WarJams]

Well, the thing about lying or truthin' -love ya Nancy- is that in a court setting, you are under very specific instructions and sworn under penalty of perjury to " tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God."

Anything but the WHOLE TRUTH, is not THE TRUTH. A half truth is not the truth. Taking things out of context is likewise not the truth. Misrepresenting facts is not the truth. In these people's stories I believe there are small nuggets of truths at the core of these otherwise tall tales, but then they begin to wildly spin things out of context from there. It is no longer the whole truth.

 

[The Phantom on the Hill]

You should probably watch the videos before jumping to any conclusions based on your text-based ingesting of the deposition.

The "too many stories" argument is for smooth-brains. If you can't wrap your head around civil conspiracy, and the fact that 3 separate parties of witnesses are now linked together by the Tuttle Group, and you can't see how that could point to any possible collusion, then you need to re-evaluate your bias on the subject, because you're not neutral.

One of the Yost twins worked with Toye at the Tuttle Group, the twins LIVED with Monica and Toye. Jamie Marchi's SO is a Jr. Partner of the Tuttle Group. Rumors are that everyone in Funimation have very friendly relationships.

So don't for a second think that this is as simple as "white man bad". The volume of allegations without any reports or evidence, or even people to come forward with valid or relevant testimony, should raise a flag as to their authenticity. More stories does not make more truth, this isn't Invader Zim.

Firstly, I never claimed to be neutral. Secondly, testimony can be considered evidence, especially when these accusations have been going on for years. They didn't simply appear out thin air after the Broly movie. I've tried watching the #IStandWithVic videos, and they're filled with so many moments of missing the point entirely that I couldn't go through them

(Plus, several of them are way too long Six hours? Really?)

There are several photos and videos of Vic Mignogna being inappropriate with fans, with other voice actors, and other people in general. Most recently, this started making the rounds

Spoiler

In it, a woman (a voice actress if I recall correctly) is sitting on Vic's lap. Her face says it all: She's very uncomfortable.

In situations where various testimonies paint the same picture, receipts aren't needed, and even when photographic evidence of Vic being a creep is shown, it is dismissed as being out of context or misconstrued.

It's fine to be skeptical, but what's not okay is dismissing evidence just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Immaculate Ape]

Firstly, I never claimed to be neutral. Secondly, testimony can be considered evidence, especially when these accusations have been going on for years. They didn't simply appear out thin air after the Broly movie. I've tried watching the #IStandWithVic videos, and they're filled with so many moments of missing the point entirely that I couldn't go through them

(Plus, several of them are way too long Six hours? Really?)

There are several photos and videos of Vic Mignogna being inappropriate with fans, with other voice actors, and other people in general. Most recently, this started making the rounds

Spoiler

Wyświetl załącznik 874135

In it, a woman (a voice actress if I recall correctly) is sitting on Vic's lap. Her face says it all: She's very uncomfortable.

In situations where various testimonies paint the same picture, receipts aren't needed

Are you trying to be serious or are you trolling? Because you can't seriously claim that someone sitting down on an already seated person is any evidence of assault/uncomfortability.

You sure you belong here and not in Monica's echochamber? Cause you are wading into cow territory with this hot take. You openly admit several times in this post alone that you don't watch both sides of the story, that you BLATANTLY only watch things that reinforce your narrative.

Gonna call bullshit on you here, bub.

 

[ShinyStar]

It's a good attitude to have, and I wish more people would be neutral instead of assuming all the accusers are lying.

Personally, there's too many stories and testimonies for all of them to be lying. Vic even admitted under oath that he grabbed Marchi's hair (he only objected to the term "pull").

At the end of the day, I'm not sure he did any of these things maliciously, but he does need to face consequences for his actions.

What are the proper consequences for going up to a friend, and after she hugs you, touching her hair and complimenting what she's done with it?

As for the idea that there's mountains of accusations out there... The tumblr blog that the defendants cited in their response had 7 accusations for things that could possible deserve some sort of consequence for Vic, and half of those were immediately disprovable with basic internet searches for facts. None of the seven provided any sort of evidence, absolutely nothing on which it would be fair to give someone consequences.

The idea that the girl in that picture is uncomfortable is ridiculous. She's laughing. She looks like she's having a great time. Unless Vic went out to the audience, picked her up, and deposited her on his lap, what's the matter? Do you honestly misunderstand women so completely that you don't realize that the overwhelming majority of women enjoy male attention? I seriously hope that people like you who are so ignorant of how the sexes interact lose their influence over culture before my children grow up.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

The idea that the girl in that picture is uncomfortable is ridiculous. She's laughing. She looks like she's having a great time. Unless Vic went out to the audience, picked her up, and deposited her on his lap, what's the matter? Do you honestly misunderstand women so completely that you don't realize that the overwhelming majority of women enjoy male attention? I seriously hope that people like you who are so ignorant of how the sexes interact lose their influence over culture before my children grow up.

That "girl" is fellow voice actor and ADR writer, Colleen Clinkenbeard, a fully adult woman. And, yes, she clearly is laughing in that photo.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

Secondly, testimony can be considered evidence,

Only when they're holding your ass to the fire in court under penalty of perjury is you saying something testimony.

To be clear: an affidavit is testimony. A statement you post on Twitter or just say here or there is not testimony. Even if you don't want to be that precise with wording, the point is that words don't matter unless you submit to punishment should you be found to have been lying. And given that we have a trio of contradicting affidavits from the defendants, with one of them coming from someone who wasn't even in the country of the event she implicitly claims firsthand knowledge to, you should have an idea of how much these people value their own word.

especially when these accusations have been going on for years.

You mean since 2010 at best, from deranged fujos trying to petition to only have him lose a voice acting role instead of being thrown in prison? Deranged fujos who, in a list of 13 reasons to not retain Vic for the VA role of their bishie of the season, put sexual assault allegations at the absolute bottom of the list?

The accusations haven't been going on for years-- @Allanon's looked into that. The accusations allege events that go years back.

In it, a woman (a voice actress if I recall correctly) is sitting on Vic's lap. Her face says it all: She's very uncomfortable.

You're trolling if you seriously think that anybody's not going to consider the fact that she's clearly, willingly, sitting on his lap with her hands together and not in any way trying to extricate herself.

It's fine to be skeptical, but what's not okay is dismissing evidence just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You haven't been in the discussion and research nearly as long as any of your present interlocutors have been in order to suggest that anybody's dismissing evidence.

 

[The Phantom on the Hill]

Are you trying to be serious or are you trolling? Because you can't seriously claim that someone sitting down on an already seated person is any evidence of assault/uncomfortability.

You sure you belong here and not in Monica's echochamber? Cause you are wading into cow territory with this hot take. You openly admit several times in this post alone that you don't watch both sides of the story, that you BLATANTLY only watch things that reinforce your narrative.

Gonna call bullshit on you here, bub.

Oh, and you're one to talk, hiding in this echo chamber. I have attempted to see information from both sides of the argument, it just so happens that the #KickVic side is better at making their arguments more concise and straight to the point than those on #IStandWithVic. Maybe once I have an afternoon free, I'll finally watch one of Nick Reikata's six hour long exposés. Perhaps I am delving into "cow" territory by making these posts, but I personally don't care. There seems to be no discourse from the other side on this forum (and for good reason it seems, as most of you have already made up your minds that #KickVic is full of liars and "snakes"), so I felt someone needed to break into this echo chamber.

In regards to the photo, this was the tweet that accompanied it.

Nick Wright on Twitter

“@MarzGurl "Everybody has a Vic story" is sure as hell true. I've been hearing that since the early 2010s. My own Vic story is just him being kind of a dick, though I think I was wearing this ??? face the entire time he was around”

twitter.com

The person who tweeted it was next to Vic in the photo, so one of the "witnesses" thought it was creepy. If I am wrong, then so be it, but everyone except Vic seems uncomfortable in that picture.

I am prepared for my viewpoint to be challenged and potentially changed, but so far, my view is that Vic Mignogna has been unintentionally and maybe even intentionally creepy towards fans and voice actresses.

 

[HarblMcDavid]

Firstly, I never claimed to be neutral. Secondly, testimony can be considered evidence, especially when these accusations have been going on for years. They didn't simply appear out thin air after the Broly movie. I've tried watching the #IStandWithVic videos, and they're filled with so many moments of missing the point entirely that I couldn't go through them

(Plus, several of them are way too long Six hours? Really?)

There are several photos and videos of Vic Mignogna being inappropriate with fans, with other voice actors, and other people in general. Most recently, this started making the rounds

Spoiler

Wyświetl załącznik 874135

In it, a woman (a voice actress if I recall correctly) is sitting on Vic's lap. Her face says it all: She's very uncomfortable.

In situations where various testimonies paint the same picture, receipts aren't needed, and even when photographic evidence of Vic being a creep is shown, it is dismissed as being out of context or misconstrued.

It's fine to be skeptical, but what's not okay is dismissing evidence just because it doesn't fit your narrative.

If you're going to use a picture to illustrate someone around Vic being uncomfortable, you might want to use one that actually has someone that looks uncomfortable in it? I'm pretty sure you can find a picture of a fan with Vic that better fits your narrative.

If that's the face of an uncomfortable woman, she's either hiding it exceptionally well, or I am being asked to accept that women have facial expressions that mean the exact opposite of what they look like they should mean 100% of the time.

Edit for clarity: I will grant that the entities claiming to be men on either side of Vic/Colleen do look uncomfortable. I would counter that they appear to be the type of person who looks uncomfortable in the presence of women in general so that's a poor indicator of whether Colleen was, in fact, uncomfortable.

I will also grant that the sitting position itself does not look particularly comfortable, but that's not the way you meant "uncomfortable" and we both know it.

 

[Immaculate Ape]

I'm an idiot and can't help but backpeddle after I was called out, so need to result to a "no you" and move the goal posts, I'm here to martyr cause I'm so brave

Got it.

Just a quick spoiler for you, everyone on this forum is going to give you exactly as much consideration as you deserve.

 

[WarJams]

I have attempted-

Bullshit.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

Oh, and you're one to talk, hiding in this echo chamber. I have attempted to see information from both sides of the argument, it just so happens that the #KickVic side is better at making their arguments more concise and straight to the point than those on #IStandWithVic.

Have you not read the affidavits of Faisal Jamaluddin Ahmed, Jennifer Lynn Hunt, and John Prager? They are the most scatter-brained affidavits that are ALLEGEDLY talking about the same course of events. There is nothing "concise and straight to the point" in regards to the stories KickVic spreads because they keeping changing the details.

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I have attempted to see information from both sides of the argument, it just so happens that the #KickVic side is better at making their arguments more concise and straight to the point than those on #IStandWithVic.

No the hell you haven't. You haven't been commenting on this, nor have you been contributing info nearly as much as anyone else here. You haven't been discussing the court documents at all, and so far, you've only made anencephalic appeals you can't even justify (again, I ask: how many accusations does it take for the accusations, by themselves, to become credible?).

It's not February anymore, and we're in the middle of a lawsuit. Catch up.

 

[ShinyStar]

Oh, and you're one to talk, hiding in this echo chamber. I have attempted to see information from both sides of the argument, it just so happens that the #KickVic side is better at making their arguments more concise and straight to the point than those on #IStandWithVic. Maybe once I have an afternoon free, I'll finally watch one of Nick Reikata's six hour long exposés. Perhaps I am delving into "cow" territory by making these posts, but I personally don't care. There seems to be no discourse from the other side on this forum (and for good reason it seems, as most of you have already made up your minds that #KickVic is full of liars and "snakes"), so I felt someone needed to break into this echo chamber.

In regards to the photo, this was the tweet that accompanied it.

Nick Wright on Twitter

“@MarzGurl "Everybody has a Vic story" is sure as hell true. I've been hearing that since the early 2010s. My own Vic story is just him being kind of a dick, though I think I was wearing this ??? face the entire time he was around”

twitter.com

The person who tweeted it was next to Vic in the photo, so one of the "witnesses" thought it was creepy. If I am wrong, then so be it, but everyone except Vic seems uncomfortable in that picture.

I am prepared for my viewpoint to be challenged and potentially changed, but so far, my view is that Vic Mignogna has been unintentionally and maybe even intentionally creepy towards fans and voice actresses.

Quit dodging - if you're such a forthright and reasonable person, answer the questions being put to you.

What are the proper consequences for going up to a friend, and after she hugs you, touching her hair and complimenting what she's done with it?

And from everything I've seen from the KickVic side - from looking at original sources like the Tumblr blog & the supposed witness testimony, if you think that we're the echo chamber, you haven't been paying attention. The reason their arguments are more concise and to the point is that they don't actually try to analyze facts and evidence. What is more concise, saying 'Vic has assaulted 100s of women' or 'There is no actual evidence of that claim. If you look back through Vic's history, if you look at the videotapes and pictures of him at cons, if you actually read the stupid anti-fan-fic blogs, we can't find any convincing evidence.'? The first statement is more concise, because it's 100% bull and not even trying to put forth a provable narrative. Real life isn't concise, and if you don't have the time and intestinal fortitude to actually interact with evidence and reason, then you should expect your opinion to count for jack shit.

 

[The Phantom on the Hill]

Bullshit.

Do I need to show my watch history?

Also, might I remind you of this tidbit.

Don't get baited.

This site is not pro- or anti- anything. Don't chimp out over people disagreeing with the majority.

I think the responses I'm getting prove why the two sides of this "war" can't talk without vitriol. Already, I see people assuming things about me and my intentions. Let me be clear, I am not trying to be a "martyr."

What are the proper consequences for going up to a friend, and after she hugs you, touching her hair and complimenting what she's done with it?

Not doing it again if the other party isn't comfortable with it. March I clearly wasn't.

if you think that we're the echo chamber, you haven't been paying attention.

The fact that no one has ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe Vic isn't the victim in this and not to mention there's a thread "worshiping" his lawyer tends to lead one to think that this is a #IStandWithVic echo Chamber.

These stories and rumors have been going on since at least 2006. What's more credible, that there's some grand conspiracy to take Vic down or that he was just a bit too handsy?

Also, I'm not intentionally dodging any questions. They come up so fast that I literally don't see them until I post my reply.