DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

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Isn't Nightwing one of the most popular in-universe heroes? I remember reading about a planned event to kill him because his death would be super impactful to the DC universe, but I forget which one.
Infinite Crisis
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They ended up not going through with it, but the event was clearly building up to his death as part of the emotional climax (I've herad some people say that Connor's death was a replacement). The story constantly reinforces him as the hope of the next generation, his importance as THE first sidekick, they make a lot of little 'Oh god, I hope nothing happens to me/him' sorta death flags. A throughline of the event is the idea of the Earth 2 universe being inherently better than the main universe that's lost all it's optimism, hope and heroism in the lead up to this event. The primary refutation of that idea?
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But yes, Nightwing is very important in-universe. He is the guy most people believe will lead the Justice League (if the DC status quo ever progressed after that), he was the leader of the first teenage team, the first sidekick, a hero who's learned from multiple founding Justice League members and, whilst the pages were cut, when his death was faked his funeral was depicted as having a similar turnout to Superman's. Damian is his Robin. Superman explicitly trusted Nightwing to mentor his son. He is the hero who basically knows everyone, if you fuck with him the list of offended parties coming to kick your ass extends across outer space. Superman even once referred to him as the multiversal constant for how his importance always seems to carry.

Alas, despite all this insistence, he's never allowed to take the place he's clearly being built to take because DC refuse to let him leave Batman's shadow. I'm still pissed about his big mini-series that was entirely about establishing him big time hero against an alien invasion never came to fruition.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
I heard people say that the "Trinity" should be Batman, Nightwing, and Superman.
Pretty much

Diana only really gets added because of her feminism mark in the 40s, but beyond that she lacks much impact on the genre or DC as a whole. Batman and Superman are the foundation of DC, it makes sense that the boy raised under both would be the most important figure as he signifies the passing of the torch. Even speaking in terms of non-comics content, Robin/Nightwing is objectively one of the most popular heroes having three successful, arguably the most successful, cartoons under his belt. He is arguably one of the biggest players in broadening supers as a genre as he really resonates with children, women, and even blacks in a way only Spider-Man challenges.
 
Pretty much

Diana only really gets added because of her feminism mark in the 40s, but beyond that she lacks much impact on the genre or DC as a whole. Batman and Superman are the foundation of DC, it makes sense that the boy raised under both would be the most important figure as he signifies the passing of the torch. Even speaking in terms of non-comics content, Robin/Nightwing is objectively one of the most popular heroes having three successful, arguably the most successful, cartoons under his belt. He is arguably one of the biggest players in broadening supers as a genre as he really resonates with children, women, and even blacks in a way only Spider-Man challenges.

People bring up DCSPHG and Absolute Wonder Woman, but I think the only unequivocal success Wonder Woman has had, not in a niche, but with normies and mainstream audiences was Gal Gadot's first Wonder Woman movie,and her subsequent cameos

She can be a great character. But to be honest for the most part she hasn't been. At least not in decades.
 
Isn't Nightwing one of the most popular in-universe heroes? I remember reading about a planned event to kill him because his death would be super impactful to the DC universe, but I forget which one.
There's that what-if issue where Superboy sticks im into a loop of deaths and somehow that causes everything to go right, kek.

his importance as THE first sidekick, they make a lot of little 'Oh god, I hope nothing happens to me/him' sorta death flags.
Jason is still crying to this day.

Earth 2 universe being inherently better than the main universe that's lost all it's optimism, hope and heroism in the lead up to this even
Ah, so that's where they stole the idea for the Absolute 'x' series, it's not even original besides ripping off Marvel.
 
What is your major malfunction if you want your hypothetical child to look up to a character who's a drunken trainwreck?

 
Where'd you read that?
I'll start this off by asking you if you have seen the movie itself. Superman is a fucking bitch in the James Gunn movie, and he never gets a W. Absolutely no love is shown for the character whatsoever. You can just tell that Gunn was more interested in other characters, as Superman got sidelined constantly by them in his own damn movie. lol.

Also, Gunn stated in many interviews that you can read and watch that he modeled Krypto after his own dog exactly. And plot with the monkeys on social media to defame Superman was an obvious reference to his infamous Twitter cancelation almost 10 years ago.

James Gunn did the "self-insert" thing with a long established and beloved character in order to "understand" the character, lol. The ego is massive.

Also, the middle name thing was during some interview I watched during the press tour. It's been a year, so I don't remember the video exactly ... But it totally happened. It was some trivia interview.
 
People bring up DCSPHG and Absolute Wonder Woman, but I think the only unequivocal success Wonder Woman has had, not in a niche, but with normies and mainstream audiences was Gal Gadot's first Wonder Woman movie,and her subsequent cameos
Lynda Carter in the 70s as well, but yes. WW really struggled to have much of anything to her name, a lot of it due to aversion to female heroes, but also, she lacked much to really build off of from comics. She never had a major story or arc like Batman, Superman or the Titans did. Hell even the Flash and Green Lantern have things like Flashpoint and Geoff John’s runs.

She is a character no one can seem to figure out fully. The clash between Greek Pantheon, and Feminist characters, along with the randos leads to a disjointed rogues that has no real theme or consistency. One minute she is fighting literal Gods, the next its some tard in a blue snowman suit. It often feels like she is trying to ape off of more defined heroes since her own rogues rarely get to amount to anything.

DC seems to basically have had an advantage in the 2000s with the Cartoons (BTAS, STAS, JL/ JLU, Teen Titans, and other stuff). Literally fumbled all of this.
Not entirely their fault.

I have said it between this thread and western animation, but the mechanisms behind American nerd culture, especially comics/cartoons were (and largely still are) heavily outdated and restrictive compared to their Japanese counterparts. Toy companies operate in a 7-10 age range with strict sectioning of girl/boy for most things. DC had the misfortune of being largely ahead of the times amongst this, basically kneecapping themselves in the process.
They continuously got into fights with manufacturers who were unhappy with the older audiences that DC were bringing in through their cartoons. They were even more unhappy that, contradictory to what Nerdrotic and co say, women were large parts of DC’s 90s-10s audience makeup. Numerous concessions had to be made, like Batman Beyond being created as manufactures wanted Batman to be a teen to appeal to the youth for better toy sales, otherwise cancellation was immanent such as the case with Young Justice and its older skewing and nearly perfect 50% gender split. Other big hurdles like race also played a part as manufacturers won’t make merch for a series like Static Shock, despite it being one of the most popular Kids WB series after Pokémon.

DC had tons of bullshit thrusted on them. Wonder Woman projects largely got cancelled due to continuous pushback from toy companies because no female supers, two prominent cases being Star Riders in the early 90s and The Brave & The Bold successor series with a more 70s style WW.

DC with the movies seems like it did the 343 Halo thing where besides Snyder, no one actually likes the properties and actively held contempt for them.
A big problem with the movies, even dating back decades ago is DC consistently getting railroaded by critics and prior performances. Superman had two liked Donner films before the owning company decided to kill it by making things on the cheap. This caused Warner to course correct in the 90s with Superman Lives, a new darker take following the success of Burtonman that never took off. Then in the 2000s, they decided the previous failed, so go back to Donner but darker like Nolan, then that failed and was seen as too boring, not enough action. Snyder came as a result of Nolan and them needing more action, till his was seen as too dark and overly action-packed. Finally, we got Gunn to correct Snyder and make Superman more light-hearted. It is just a long series of pivots to correct things that plagues these films, with Batman arguably being much the same.
 
I'll start this off by asking you if you have seen the movie itself. Superman is a fucking bitch in the James Gunn movie, and he never gets a W. Absolutely no love is shown for the character whatsoever. You can just tell that Gunn was more interested in other characters, as Superman got sidelined constantly by them in his own damn movie. lol.

Also, Gunn stated in many interviews that you can read and watch that he modeled Krypto after his own dog exactly. And plot with the monkeys on social media to defame Superman was an obvious reference to his infamous Twitter cancelation almost 10 years ago.

James Gunn did the "self-insert" thing with a long established and beloved character in order to "understand" the character, lol. The ego is massive.

Also, the middle name thing was during some interview I watched during the press tour. It's been a year, so I don't remember the video exactly ... But it totally happened. It was some trivia interview.

While, Bruce timm, Paul Dini and all their team of writers had an obvious Batman favoritism, and they didn't even try to hide it, they still wrote Superman with more care and respect than both Gunn and Snyder ever could
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
Lynda Carter in the 70s as well, but yes. WW really struggled to have much of anything to her name, a lot of it due to aversion to female heroes, but also, she lacked much to really build off of from comics. She never had a major story or arc like Batman, Superman or the Titans did. Hell even the Flash and Green Lantern have things like Flashpoint and Geoff John’s runs.

She is a character no one can seem to figure out fully. The clash between Greek Pantheon, and Feminist characters, along with the randos leads to a disjointed rogues that has no real theme or consistency. One minute she is fighting literal Gods, the next its some tard in a blue snowman suit. It often feels like she is trying to ape off of more defined heroes since her own rogues rarely get to amount to anything.
Pretty much

Diana only really gets added because of her feminism mark in the 40s, but beyond that she lacks much impact on the genre or DC as a whole. Batman and Superman are the foundation of DC, it makes sense that the boy raised under both would be the most important figure as he signifies the passing of the torch. Even speaking in terms of non-comics content, Robin/Nightwing is objectively one of the most popular heroes having three successful, arguably the most successful, cartoons under his belt. He is arguably one of the biggest players in broadening supers as a genre as he really resonates with children, women, and even blacks in a way only Spider-Man challenges.
yeah the boomer tv trilogy of George Superman, Adam Batman, and Lynda Wonderwoman is hard to undersell
like Carter was doing ads of HEY LOOK IT'S THE WONDER WOMAN CHICK like how West was doing ads, but less self-deprecating than "wish I had one of these back in the old cave" or the AOL ones where he's in a mental home
 
Pretty much

Diana only really gets added because of her feminism mark in the 40s, but beyond that she lacks much impact on the genre or DC as a whole. Batman and Superman are the foundation of DC, it makes sense that the boy raised under both would be the most important figure as he signifies the passing of the torch. Even speaking in terms of non-comics content, Robin/Nightwing is objectively one of the most popular heroes having three successful, arguably the most successful, cartoons under his belt. He is arguably one of the biggest players in broadening supers as a genre as he really resonates with children, women, and even blacks in a way only Spider-Man challenges.
Diana was the codifier for the female superhero archetype. That means her influence on the genre is almost unrivaled.

I'll start this off by asking you if you have seen the movie itself. Superman is a fucking bitch in the James Gunn movie, and he never gets a W. Absolutely no love is shown for the character whatsoever. You can just tell that Gunn was more interested in other characters, as Superman got sidelined constantly by them in his own damn movie. lol.
Yup. It was obvious there was no love for the character. No one there wanted him to look cool.

Also, Gunn stated in many interviews that you can read and watch that he modeled Krypto after his own dog exactly. And plot with the monkeys on social media to defame Superman was an obvious reference to his infamous Twitter cancelation almost 10 years ago.
People moved past it. Why remind every parent that you are a douche that jokes about raping kids at your kid friendly movie?

James Gunn did the "self-insert" thing with a long established and beloved character in order to "understand" the character, lol. The ego is massive.
You would think his self-insert would be a Mary Sue, not completely emasculated. Gunn has this weird combination of massive ego and eternal self-loathing. He seems like a chronic junkie. Loves to indulge himself but also hates that he is an absolute loser.

Lynda Carter in the 70s as well, but yes. WW really struggled to have much of anything to her name, a lot of it due to aversion to female heroes, but also, she lacked much to really build off of from comics. She never had a major story or arc like Batman, Superman or the Titans did. Hell even the Flash and Green Lantern have things like Flashpoint and Geoff John’s runs.

She is a character no one can seem to figure out fully. The clash between Greek Pantheon, and Feminist characters, along with the randos leads to a disjointed rogues that has no real theme or consistency. One minute she is fighting literal Gods, the next its some tard in a blue snowman suit. It often feels like she is trying to ape off of more defined heroes since her own rogues rarely get to amount to anything.
The problem with WW is that they lean too much on feminism. She can have events that aren't shoving "WOMAN" everywhere. Have Circe do something big that can escalate and boom! Instant classic! Instead, we had "Amazons Attack" and it barely featured her (for the best, really but still). She is always treated as if she were a feminist mouthpiece instead o a hero!

Not entirely their fault.

I have said it between this thread and western animation, but the mechanisms behind American nerd culture, especially comics/cartoons were (and largely still are) heavily outdated and restrictive compared to their Japanese counterparts. Toy companies operate in a 7-10 age range with strict sectioning of girl/boy for most things. DC had the misfortune of being largely ahead of the times amongst this, basically kneecapping themselves in the process.
They continuously got into fights with manufacturers who were unhappy with the older audiences that DC were bringing in through their cartoons. They were even more unhappy that, contradictory to what Nerdrotic and co say, women were large parts of DC’s 90s-10s audience makeup. Numerous concessions had to be made, like Batman Beyond being created as manufactures wanted Batman to be a teen to appeal to the youth for better toy sales, otherwise cancellation was immanent such as the case with Young Justice and its older skewing and nearly perfect 50% gender split. Other big hurdles like race also played a part as manufacturers won’t make merch for a series like Static Shock, despite it being one of the most popular Kids WB series after Pokémon.

DC had tons of bullshit thrusted on them. Wonder Woman projects largely got cancelled due to continuous pushback from toy companies because no female supers, two prominent cases being Star Riders in the early 90s and The Brave & The Bold successor series with a more 70s style WW.
They did not have it easy but at the same time, their stuff was attracting kids and building a solid fanbase once they grew up. The Nolan films were made partly because the fanbase was alive due to the DCAU.

A big problem with the movies, even dating back decades ago is DC consistently getting railroaded by critics and prior performances. Superman had two liked Donner films before the owning company decided to kill it by making things on the cheap. This caused Warner to course correct in the 90s with Superman Lives, a new darker take following the success of Burtonman that never took off. Then in the 2000s, they decided the previous failed, so go back to Donner but darker like Nolan, then that failed and was seen as too boring, not enough action. Snyder came as a result of Nolan and them needing more action, till his was seen as too dark and overly action-packed. Finally, we got Gunn to correct Snyder and make Superman more light-hearted. It is just a long series of pivots to correct things that plagues these films, with Batman arguably being much the same.
They should stop trying to copy Batman. That doesn't work for Superman. Keep a light but serious tone. Have him tackle issues but keep the audience believing in a brighter future. They are acting as if we asked them to perform a miracle.

While, Bruce timm, Paul Dini and all their team of writers had an obvious Batman favoritism, and they didn't even try to hide it, they still wrote Superman with more care and respect than both Gunn and Snyder ever could
Yes. Timm and the rest preferred Batman. He was their favorite. Superman was a close second though. They loved him. Snyder did too but he didn't get why anyone else did. Gunn almost refuses to believe anyone could ever love Superman.
 
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