#Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[Uranus Pink]

Crossgen, Antarctic, and Aspen. All were outsold by superheroes.
???

No. Just no. Crossgen never hitched itself to the speculator bubble nor did Aspen. They're Indieshit titles just weren't what the actual market that actually bought books wanted.

Ever heard of Triumphant, or Lightning Comics as they among other even smaller Indie publishers rode the capeshit speculator train to oblivion.

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

Oh hey, its more Ethan never dun nuffin'. Joy....

Mike doesn't like Ethan. Ethan doesn't like Mike. Mike took a ton of shit from gay oppers in WC, your buddies, for over a year. Ethan cheered as they harangued him and he took multiple opportunities to assert that Miller hates the gays.

Mike, in turn, fucked everything up. He took his moral high ground and thoroughly conceded it.

Ethan and Mike are both petty fucks. But you seem obsessed with caping for Frog. Protecting Caesar?

You mean my good friend EVS?

Mike still can't accept, he is the one who did this to himself.

 

[jspit2.0]

Ever heard of Triumphant, or Lightning Comics as they among other even Indie publishers rode the capeshit speculator train to oblivion.

I have. But even post speculator boom the industry was pretty robust and healthy. It's a shadow of where it was in the 00s.

Lost in all of this, the correlation between niche genre and increasing sales.

You mean my good friend EVS?

Mike still can't accept, he is the one who did this to himself.

He chose to have Ethan attack him for expressing his politics on twitter? He chose to be slandered and libeled as a homophobe or to have Ethan allege he steals money?

Mike chose how to respond to all of that. He is an asshole, who made his own bed.

All I saw from Mike in those DMs was a petty man who wanted no part of any of this. Acting as if that pettiness has been entirely one sided for the last four years or just sprang out of nothing does you no favor. It makes me wonder why you'd omit things.

 

[YesNoMaybe]

Yeah. Not sure what the issue with Mike is in those posts on his server. Tells them to take it to DMs and says gossip is evil. Reasonable mod behavior and reasonable opinion. The guy did get a raw deal by a bunch of crazy people. Just because PocketsPussyPreston is a cunt doesn't make WC somehow good guys.

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

I have. But even post speculator boom the industry was pretty robust and healthy. It's a shadow of where it was in the 00s.

Lost in all of this, the correlation between niche genre and increasing sales.



He chose to have Ethan attack him for expressing his politics on twitter? He chose to be slandered and libeled as a homophobe or to have Ethan allege he steals money?

Mike chose how to respond to all of that. He is an asshole, who made his own bed.

All I saw from Mike in those DMs was a petty man who wanted no part of any of this. Acting as if that pettiness has been entirely one sided for the last four years or just sprang out of nothing does you no favor. It makes me wonder why you'd omit things.

Mike doesn't like money. SIMPLE AS THAT

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

Yeah. Not sure what the issue with Mike is in those posts on his server. Tells them to take it to DMs and says gossip is evil. Reasonable mod behavior and reasonable opinion. The guy did get a raw deal by a bunch of crazy people. Just because PocketsPussyPreston is a cunt doesn't make WC somehow good guys.

#WASCAMPAIGN are not good guys. There are only a few of them PAN aka MATT HANSEN, RO, GAT HANZO, and MOS aka ManofSex.

*sorry for double post.

 

[jspit2.0]

Mike doesn't like money. SIMPLE AS THAT

#WASCAMPAIGN are not good guys. There are only a few of them PAN aka MATT HANSEN, RO, GAT HANZO, and MOS aka ManofSex.

*sorry for double post.

So neither you or any of the etseys aloged Miller? You weren't in Warcampaign then? Wiggle? How about George?

You've called Boyette Methwyn. WC came up with that nickname to tie him to drug addiction. Which is a major problem in his chosen work field of construction.

 

[Pilule Noire]

Ellis has some interesting ideas here, but the bottom line is without the earlier "capeshit" there wouldn't be room for whatever Ellis wants to write. He's got a lot of anger directed at something thats a personal preference and not exactly a problem, without offering much a solution in that snippet.

I think most people want to read good comics of whatever variety. Looking at Manga it's not all super shit, Aside from the obvious My Hero Academia there's variety in a sense and just enough. Even with Steven Spielberg talking about Superhero movies going the way of the western, Marvel is still on track to dominate the box office, even if the reaction to the Eternals is mixed. People like SuperShit. There's nothing wrong with that. You're not an elite for hating on them.

I'd argue it's gone beyond just enjoying superpowers and bad guys, but the characters that embody that. Look at the fury at any casting announcement or speculation for Wolverine, and there will be pages of discussion, go back to Ben Affleck being announced for Batman, and you will see more than anything, a love for the established characters, and their lore. Not just a love for anyone who can fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes. Henry Cavil's casting remains in doubt and widely speculated on after the black Superman news or whatever is going on with that. It's important to get a character people have been reading since 1938 right. They still buy his comics after all.

Wanting to read 300 good comics even if they wear capes isn't something you need to seek help for. It's that kind of disillusionment that's lead to all the deconstruction we're seeing get popular now, The Boys, Invincible, and Jupiter Rising all successful TV series airing at the same time for example. Those are all pretty good entertainment in one way or the other, and kind of refreshing after a decade of good but unsurprising marvel movies. There's a place for deconstruction and thankfully its turned into a good product in its own right.

The Matrix is Superhero fiction. Even has the dreaded "chosen one" trope everyone should be tired of by now. The Matrix just did it with trench coats and sunglasses, with a little 1337 hacker speak thrown in. It's aged like milk in comparison to Superheroes.

If you don't like Superheroes thats fine, but its not a medical issue, or some kind of fiction faux pau to read or write them. Nor is it a medical emergency. I'd say that level of cynicism is much worse than "Superhero fatigue"

I have a problem with these Spielberg quotes linked by @Mecha:

"We were around when the Western died and there will be a time when the superhero movie goes the way of the Western."

"These cycles have a finite time in popular culture. There will come a day when the mythological stories are supplanted by some other genre that possibly some young filmmaker is just thinking about discovering for all of us."

It's kind of odd how Spielberg compared the western to the superhero genre, kind of stupid in fact. Movie genres are unique because they're made from a changing technology. Silent film is an entire medium of cinema that 'died' due to technological change, and I would argue westerns are the same or similar.

Westerns arguably died out because after Star Wars, dirty sci-fi replaced it. You can even trace it somewhat in Moebius, how he transitioned from gritty western comics (inspired by 60s spaghetti westerns) to the Jodorowsky Dune project and seminal cyberpunk and sci-fi work in the 70s.

Now the thing with superhero movies is that they weren't really possible before this century, and before CGI.

But what, technologically, is going to make them obsolete like westerns, or silent cinema?

There's nothing. The only real dampening effect comes from 'glutting', ie the practice where Hollywood copycats and rips itself off so much that a popular trend kills itself by becoming unbearably cliched from endless hackjob rehashing.

You can see this with horror movies, where one good movie will kick off a mini-boom that then peters out as more crap is produced. You can also see it with creators like Tarantino becoming a pseudogenre which then becomes a cliche, and even with individual movies like The Matrix causing a 'Matrixification' of all the action movies that came out in its wake.

So there might be reactions against aspects of the superhero genre that become cliche. But other than that, I see no reason why superheroes won't dominate cinema henceforth, as they have dominated the imaginative space of comics since the 60s if not earlier.

The only thing holding them back was the technology!

So listen here @Spielberg, there might well be a point where audiences are totally fed up of watching pretty people in tight costumes flying around and fighting and zapping and smashing things. But I'm going to go ahead and say that will NEVER happen, and you Spielberg, are COMPLETELY wrong!

Superheroes will dominate cinema for the entire rest of the twenty first century! I'm calling it now. Look at the facts, the box office facts. Superheroes have won cinema this century, and we're not even a quarter of the way through it.

MUA Ha ha, foolish mortal Spielberg. Do you know nothing at all, silly big shark man?

Face facts - twenty first century cinema is, and will continue to be, a complete and utter CAPESCAPE!

And monsters too, of course - they got to fight something.

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

So neither you or any of the etseys aloged Miller? You weren't in Warcampaign then? Wiggle? How about George?

You've called Boyette Methwyn. WC came up with that nickname to tie him to drug addiction. Which is a major problem in his chosen work field of construction.

Sir, learn to laugh. METHWIN is a hilarious name. He should be honored.

Yes, we were in #WASCAMPAIGN, but what did we do? You don't know.

ANSWER: nothing

 

[Dong-Liquor]

Does it seem to anyone else that Pressed-In might actually be so into humiliation that he does the things he does subconsciously knowing that he will lose and this feeds into that humilation fetish? He puts on a front and probably does feel shame when things go against him, but I really think he self-sabotages.

 

[jspit2.0]

Sir, learn to laugh. METHWIN is a hilarious name. He should be honored.

Honored. When his employer hears you say that about him, what do think happens?

Yes, we were in #WASCAMPAIGN, but what did we do? You don't know.

ANSWER: nothing

Hrm.

Does it seem to anyone else that Pressed-In might actually be so into humiliation that he does the things he does subconsciously knowing that he will lose and this feeds into that humilation fetish? He puts on a front and probably does feel shame when things go against him, but I really think he self-sabotages.

Unconsciously? Maybe. I think he's a spoiled rich kid if this trust fund shit is true. I'm thinking he didn't hear enough no growing up.

 

[TESTEFY-HD]

Honored. When his employer hears you say that about him, what do think happens?



Hrm.



Unconsciously? Maybe. I think he's a spoiled rich kid if this trust fund shit is true. I'm thinking he didn't hear enough no growing up.

Very simple, DON'T BE ON THE INTERNET if you are afraid what your employer hears you say.

We are not babysitters

 

[Captain Manning]

Ethan and Mike are both petty fucks. But you seem obsessed with caping for Frog. Protecting Caesar?

I am documenting drama, as is the way around here. Nothing more.

I am sorry Preston is so fucking ridiculous that anyone (to include Ethan) looks good by comparison. I am also sorry Miller doesn't seem to grasp that. I am further sorry that perhaps you don't either.

Remember. I predicted this.

 

[I Love Beef]

Not to derail, but:

HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER

https://archive.ph/dixMm

https://archive.ph/FLPC0

https://archive.ph/a3FXO

https://archive.ph/ZISDO

https://archive.ph/UlkjC

https://archive.ph/ufm62

This is about as irrelevant as it can get, but I am liking that Anime News Network is the gift that keeps on giving. They've already been involved with That Guy With The Glasses and Change The Channel, Animegate/Weeb Wars, Gamergate, and now, they're getting into Comicsgate.

Woke. Not even once.

 

[jspit2.0]

I am documenting drama, as is the way around here. Nothing more.

Drama between Testify and Preston?

I am sorry Preston is so fucking ridiculous that anyone (to include Ethan) looks good by comparison. I am also sorry Miller doesn't seem to grasp that. I am further sorry that perhaps you don't either.

How? Am I not suitably antagonistic to the ridiculous cuck for your tastes?

I'm not anyone's gay ass illuminati. You come on here and say Cryer is bad because....he told Testefy to take his slap fight off his discord? Forgive me for not immediately embracing your narrative.

 

[verissimus]

I am documenting drama, as is the way around here. Nothing more.

I am sorry Preston is so fucking ridiculous that anyone (to include Ethan) looks good by comparison. I am also sorry Miller doesn't seem to grasp that. I am further sorry that perhaps you don't either.

Remember. I predicted this.

Hek, I'm no fan of EVS at all but Preston has really dialed things up to 11 in no time. I mean. how do you go from portraying yourself as the "anti-CG" underdog champion and complaining about all the dirty, dumb crap Warcampaign stuck it's fingers in to creating your own Warcampaign and suing two of your former "friends" because they criticized a terrible artist you want to work with along with the crap in your Discord? Just why...?

 

[TiredAndInked]

I am not sure why he's got a hate on for Ethan Vikki and Dean over calling the pedo comic exactly what it is.

And this is a stupid fucking hill to die on. I've fixed one computer in my life that had cp. Dropped the computer at the cops and ignored the guy immediately.

(He was the assistant manager of a toy store)

Fuck anyone who backs that shit.

(Sorry I went full MATI)

 

[Rupin]

Mike has got no one to blame for the failure of his Lonestar campaign but, himself. He knows where the majority of CG customers are and he chose to sell to the same 50 people that always attend his streams.
It’s cool that he has his code of ethics to live by, but he can not blame his campaigns failure on EVS, especially when he not only promoted Lonestar 3 for a little bit when the campaign first started but he gave Mike a chance to bury the hatchet and make good with his fan base. Mike chose not to do that and went his own way,

So, pretty much the majority of the blame needs to be on himself. Because, believe it or not EVS doesn’t choose what campaigns will succeed or not. The fans do.

 

[Miniluv]

Not to derail, but:

HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER


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This is about as irrelevant as it can get, but I am liking that Anime News Network is the gift that keeps on giving. They've already been involved with That Guy With The Glasses and Change The Channel, Animegate/Weeb Wars, Gamergate, and now, they're getting into Comicsgate.

Woke. Not even once.

Aside from the ensuing conversation about wokeness in comics that follwed the article, this is the crux of what I was saying earlier. The American comics industry seems to be doing everything ass backwards and manga is devouring the audience American comics used to dominate: kids and teens. Manga is especially appealing to tween and teen girls. There are manga series that are telling the stories this particular segment of the readership wants to read. American comics are not doing that. They aren't even making a half-assed effort at doing that. Tween and teen girls have no goddamn interest in the latest 25 part X-Men crossover (teen boys really don't either) and they aren't buying Ms. Marvel, but they are buying the fuck out of manga.

Another point touched on in that piece I clipped which cannot be overstated is the difference in how manga properties are treated in other media adaptations vs how their American superhero counterparts are handled and the effect that has on sales.
Most popular manga stories get animated adaptations at some point. By and large, these adaptations are not only very faithful to the source material (aside from the dreaded filler episodes that happen when the series has caught up with the manga), but the style of the show is almost always an approximation of how the manga was drawn by the mangaka. That creates an extraordinary "cross-media continuity", as the article puts it. That is attractive to people that watch the show and want to get into the manga. It helps sell books.

Now take the Avengers. That movie made a billion dollars and should have started a comic sales tsunami not seen since Batmania in 1989. It didn't. Why? Because the comics are inaccessible to new readers, especially kids. The Avengers product in comics stores is almost completely different than what was on the screen. Those stories are cobbled together from bits and pieces of many different stories and the characters don't really have the same personalities. An MCU fan looking to read about the Infinity Gauntlet/War would be so fucking confused about nearly everything involved and how different it is to the filmed version. Characters they've never heard of play pivotal roles, Thanos' motivation is entirely different, WHERE IS STAR-LORD? Same goes for the comic version of Age of Ultron.
Don't get me wrong; they work, the movies are enjoyable and they sell a lot of tickets. But they don't sell any comics.

Marvel Comics had no fucking clue what to do to promote themselves either. Their 2012 Free Comic Book Day offering on Avengers' opening weekend featured an Avengers team with Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Wolverine, and the Bucky Barnes version of Captain America. How fucking brain dead do you have to be to not put something together that at the very least features something with the team represented on screen? Not to mention it was a reprint of a story that had Jessica Drew imprisoned naked and ogled by supervillains. They had to edit the FCBD version to make her appear to have on her costume, which is a bait and switch to parents that tacitly admits Marvel Comics are not always suitable for the 9 year olds that loved the movie. Fucking embarrassing.

The American comics industry has had plenty of opportunity to unfuck itself but it chooses to do the exact opposite.

 

[Mecha]

t's kind of odd how Spielberg compared the western to the superhero genre, kind of stupid in fact. Movie genres are unique because they're made from a changing technology.

Now the thing with superhero movies is that they weren't really possible before this century, and before CGI.

But what, technologically, is going to make them obsolete like westerns, or silent cinema?

The only thing holding them back was the technology!

Face facts - twenty first century cinema is, and will continue to be, a complete and utter CAPESCAPE!

And monsters too, of course - they got to fight something.

Funny you should mention the changing technology as the deathknell for trends and genres in movies.

The biggest change the soon to be doomed Superhero movie needs to worry about is the complete eradication of movie theatres in a post covid world. Yes the technology is changing again! This time movie theatres are going away completely and will transition to Streaming services. The total take for Godzilla Vs Kong being an interesting bellweather in this case. GvK is of course a CGI laden miracle of cinematic vision with little else to entice viewers besides the CGI monsters on screen and still managed to pull in $435,902,000 according to The-numbers.com

Absolutely massive considering the effects of the PANdemIC on the industry. The movie was well into production before the widespread response shut down most movie theatres. That's an even bigger number when conisdering the movie got a same day release on HBO Max the same place where another Superflick "WonderWoman: 1984" had much smaller numbers.

While it can be argued that GvK's success is almost abysmal by pre covid standards, it obvious the format for watching these movies has changed and will continue to. The next big release is "A Quiet Place 2" and that is projected to succeed GvK's numbers while being another CGI dependent movie featuring Aliens or something. It's a memorial day release with little else in the theatre to compete with. So whether the trend holds up and signals the return of the blockbuster time will tell.

So yes, @Pilule Noire I agree the Technology is changing around Superhero and CGI dependant movies, but it's going the way of the Same Day streaming service. There's no amount of impressive CGI that can stave that future off for long.

One noticeable affect now is the traditional 90 day exclusivity window going away with Regal cinemas agreeing to a 45 day contract with Warner Bros.

It'll take years for the movie industry to recover, and even then I predict we will see much smaller budgets to account for streaming services, The Supermovie will indeed go the way of the western as a result of changing technology.

Another technology changing around Superheroes is of course the Printed Super Comic. My prediction is these will fail, and it's not because of internet gas, gay captain america, or even Gail Simone. It's because Print media is on the way out. Im not suggesting Digital is the answer. I don't know that there is one for this particular problem. If Print doesn't completely die out, Digital is continuing to grow. Our entire world is being digitized in ways just years ago would almost be seen as unimaginable. You want to collect comics? NFT's (whatever the fuck that is) are now a thing.

There is however one Nerd thing that is still thriving on printed material. Pokemon cards. If you've been to your local target at 8am on a friday you might have seen the lines yourself. If you've been to a walmart recently you may have even witnessed an actual rush from customers desperate to buy print media. Apparently there's a huge resale market for this stuff. Could the comic industry take notes here, or is the speculator and second hand market a one time chance for comics?