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[dappouROCK]

TERF, I think, is a catch-all for anyone who is not compliant with troon ideology. I've been called it and even if I am sympathetic to many feminist ideas and ideals, I am by no means one myself. And I think the primary reason TEHM isn't catching on is that it's primarily used by fujos against gay men, so it's a much smaller group that no-one really cares about.

It’s funny the amount of times I’ve been called a TERF but have had to explain that I’m male. Only to continue to be called a TERF, like they don’t know what the acronym even means.

 

[KingCoelacanth]

I've seen people unironically call Putin a TERF.

Insults are insults, the more they get used the broader their usage becomes. For these people there is nothing worse than a TERF so a long as someone is bad and (possibly) transphobic, TERF works.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

The line about puberty blocking intrigued me so I did some internet research (I know, I know). Looks like puberty blockers are only supposed to be a first step, lasting 2 years tops, so if the person taking them starts at 14, they should be off by 16. It’s basically a way to “buy time”

"Let's try it and find out" is generally not a good thing in medicine, but seems normal in the troonosphere.

The original indication for GnRH agonists was for precocious puberty, and patients would be pulled off of them as soon as they were the right age to undergo puberty. Despite only being on them for a short time, most of them wound up with osteopenia. GnRH agonists are also sometimes used for endometriosis, though this is rare in the US. I think it's more common in Europe. The reason why it's rare is because of the horrible side effects. Low libido, fatigue, depression, etc.

They're not exactly benign medications.

 

[Whoever]

TERF, I think, is a catch-all for anyone who is not compliant with troon ideology. I've been called it and even if I am sympathetic to many feminist ideas and ideals, I am by no means one myself. And I think the primary reason TEHM isn't catching on is that it's primarily used by fujos against gay men, so it's a much smaller group that no-one really cares about.

TEHM just looks like someone was angry-typing with caps lock on and misspelled "them", which to be fair is probably what the fujos are doing. At least TERF is catchy.

 

[DoTheDrew]

Insults are insults, the more they get used the broader their usage becomes. For these people there is nothing worse than a TERF so a long as someone is bad and (possibly) transphobic, TERF works.

...whereas for the rest of us, the word has become as meaningless as "transphobic".

"Let's try it and find out" is generally not a good thing in medicine, but seems normal in the troonosphere.

The original indication for GnRH agonists was for precocious puberty, and patients would be pulled off of them as soon as they were the right age to undergo puberty. Despite only being on them for a short time, most of them wound up with osteopenia. GnRH agonists are also sometimes used for endometriosis, though this is rare in the US. I think it's more common in Europe. The reason why it's rare is because of the horrible side effects. Low libido, fatigue, depression, etc.

They're not exactly benign medications.

Truthbomb - I have a female friend who was treated with GnRH or something similar, and she is still feeling the effects of it all this time after.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

"Let's try it and find out" is generally not a good thing in medicine, but seems normal in the troonosphere.

The original indication for GnRH agonists was for precocious puberty, and patients would be pulled off of them as soon as they were the right age to undergo puberty. Despite only being on them for a short time, most of them wound up with osteopenia. GnRH agonists are also sometimes used for endometriosis, though this is rare in the US. I think it's more common in Europe. The reason why it's rare is because of the horrible side effects. Low libido, fatigue, depression, etc.

They're not exactly benign medications.

Every troon drug in the US is used off label.
Normally the way it works with drugs is researchers have to do lots of studies, and then the FDA will sign off on it, and say yep, this is approved to treat x.
But sometimes doctors who are desperate will use random drugs for stuff they weren’t designed for, like when they started using AZT, a 60s cancer drug, off label (meaning not for its approved use) for AIDS.

However, drug companies are not allowed to promote drugs for off label uses. Companies that make atypical antipsychotics have gotten in trouble for that. But why is this good for the companies that make troon drugs? Because they can’t get in trouble for all the awful side effects.

AstraZeneca promoted AndroGel to middle aged men — an approved, on label use. Some of them had heart attacks and sued. Same with E for middle aged women, and the horrors of Lupron have been well documented here. Troons can’t do that! FTMs aren’t supposed to be taking AndroGel because it’s not an approved use, so it’s not the company’s problem. You could sue the individual doctor, maybe, but that’s not the same as a large class action suit against a wealthy drug company.

 

[Hongourable Madisha]

You'd think if they were concerned about trans people they'd want proper oversight and transparency with these medicines and surgeries. Katelyn Burns, for all his faults, did an exposé on the lack of regulation on "gender affirming" surgery and the culture of malpractice victims being pressured not to talk about it because if they say it's not all sunshine and rainbows and exactly like the opposite sex's genitals then they're traitors to the cause or giving ammunition to transphobes or whatever. It's a weird situation where the "transphobes" seem to have their interests at heart more than half of the people on their side.

 

[Garbage.Theory]

No, straight women too. JK Rowling isn’t a lesbian and neither are most women on mumsnet. And I’ve seen guys get called TERFs before — not to the same degree, sure, but men do get cancelled in certain circles for this.

Though I do wonder about the specific nomenclature for gay men. I’ve seen plenty of “men can’t be feminist” nonsense out there and, while I agree, most TERFs would be straight just by numbers alone, I wonder if this nomenclature isn’t, for some, a way to label people who don’t want to sleep with them.

 

[NerdShamer]

Amy Petrelli really is a gift. Here he is calling Buck Angel a mong, which is surely worse than the ablelist language he and his fiance are constantly screeching about.
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Nice to see that Buck Angel is based.

 

[Garbage.Theory]

"Let's try it and find out" is generally not a good thing in medicine, but seems normal in the troonosphere.

The original indication for GnRH agonists was for precocious puberty, and patients would be pulled off of them as soon as they were the right age to undergo puberty. Despite only being on them for a short time, most of them wound up with osteopenia. GnRH agonists are also sometimes used for endometriosis, though this is rare in the US. I think it's more common in Europe. The reason why it's rare is because of the horrible side effects. Low libido, fatigue, depression, etc.

They're not exactly benign medications.

I work in the field and things like the Tuskegee experiments and the opioid crisis are forcibly kept fresh in our minds so we remember the price of breaking the ethics code.

Personally, I get the same damn vibe from this stuff. It’s not the same obviously, these medications received approval and so we’re tested through animal and human trials, but it still gives me the same damn vibe, prescribing things for people who don’t need them.

 

[kosher bath salts]

It’s funny the amount of times I’ve been called a TERF but have had to explain that I’m male. Only to continue to be called a TERF, like they don’t know what the acronym even means.

I don't buy into this "ally" game of labels, technically women are the ones that can't be feminists, feminist was an insult against men, a synonym of "faggot" or "cuck" used against those men that supported female suffrage.

 

[Garbage.Theory]

You'd think if they were concerned about trans people they'd want proper oversight and transparency with these medicines and surgeries. Katelyn Burns, for all his faults, did an exposé on the lack of regulation on "gender affirming" surgery and the culture of malpractice victims being pressured not to talk about it because if they say it's not all sunshine and rainbows and exactly like the opposite sex's genitals then they're traitors to the cause or giving ammunition to transphobes or whatever. It's a weird situation where the "transphobes" seem to have their interests at heart more than half of the people on their side.

I think it’s because most of the people they label “transphobic” aren’t really scared of trans people. Personally, I misspent my youth wandering around the lower east side of NYC during the 90s. Sharing the bathroom with a gigantic man in a dress just doesn’t faze me.

What does faze me (and what I never experienced back in the day) is the blatant misogyny, the lack of self care and the insistence on not conforming to some basic realities (see above where Buck Angel gets bitched at for insisting that medical records reflect your biology).

So yeah, Im a TERF in their eyes, but in the eyes of people who know me I probably seem very pro-trans, if not a rad maternal about the younger ones’ health.

I mean hell, look at this thread. It’s like 30% laughing at troons and 70% medical and psychological concerns. We’re not exactly Westboro here.

 

[DoTheDrew]

Though I do wonder about the specific nomenclature for gay men. I’ve seen plenty of “men can’t be feminist” nonsense out there and, while I agree, most TERFs would be straight just by numbers alone, I wonder if this nomenclature isn’t, for some, a way to label people who don’t want to sleep with them.

Personally, I am on the team that says men can't be feminists, as it's a women's liberation movement. That doesn't mean I'm not supportive of lots of feminist causes. At any rate, male feminists almost always come off as creepy.

Nice to see that Buck Angel is based.

Buck's alright, but still kind of an asshole about these things. She wants to have her cake and eat it, too.

I work in the field and things like the Tuskegee experiments and the opioid crisis are forcibly kept fresh in our minds so we remember the price of breaking the ethics code.

Personally, I get the same damn vibe from this stuff. It’s not the same obviously, these medications received approval and so we’re tested through animal and human trials, but it still gives me the same damn vibe, prescribing things for people who don’t need them.

Very much so and as recently adjudicated by the courts in the UK, I also see this as a medical experiment. The readiness of the medical establishment to throw caution to the wind for this cause was one of many many red flags for me.

I mean hell, look at this thread. It’s like 30% laughing at troons and 70% medical and psychological concerns. We’re not exactly Westboro here.

For what it's worth, I also think that transitioning might be the right choice for some people. The implications of that are up for debate, though. And I also think "informed consent"-models are terrible - we've treated gender dysphoria in most Western countries for the past 50 years and only recently have the established protocols come under attack for being too strict.

 

[Peaches Demure]

Whatcha think? Troll or a genuine case of an autistic man who tumbled down the sissyfication rabbit hole?



The lack of comments cracks me up tho.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/comments/kg6uiv/howmydoon/

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

You'd think if they were concerned about trans people they'd want proper oversight and transparency with these medicines and surgeries. Katelyn Burns, for all his faults, did an exposé on the lack of regulation on "gender affirming" surgery and the culture of malpractice victims being pressured not to talk about it because if they say it's not all sunshine and rainbows and exactly like the opposite sex's genitals then they're traitors to the cause or giving ammunition to transphobes or whatever. It's a weird situation where the "transphobes" seem to have their interests at heart more than half of the people on their side.

It’s so the medical establishment can maintain plausible deniability. If it’s all on the informed consent model, well hey, you said you knew what the risks are, not our problem.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

You'd think if they were concerned about trans people they'd want proper oversight and transparency with these medicines and surgeries. Katelyn Burns, for all his faults, did an exposé on the lack of regulation on "gender affirming" surgery and the culture of malpractice victims being pressured not to talk about it because if they say it's not all sunshine and rainbows and exactly like the opposite sex's genitals then they're traitors to the cause or giving ammunition to transphobes or whatever. It's a weird situation where the "transphobes" seem to have their interests at heart more than half of the people on their side.

Yeah, it's actually quite bizarre.

I'm of the mindset that adults can do whatever the fuck they want with their bodies, but there's rah-rah fuck the consequences social contagion going on in the trooniverse. I don't think kids have the capacity to understand the effects of GnRH agonists, certainly, but also I'm not exactly sure the adults do either.

The biggest lie ever told is that GnRH agonists are reversible. It's funny that the actual medically "safest" way to transition as a prepubsecent MtF would be an orchiectomy followed by IM estradiol valerate, but that's obviously considered unconscionable. Yeah let's just get kids on puberty blockers for like seven years with no HRT and see what happens to their bones. It'll be a fun adventure for everyone.

 

[Garbage.Theory]

Personally, I am on the team that says men can't be feminists, as it's a women's liberation movement. That doesn't mean I'm not supportive of lots of feminist causes. At any rate, male feminists almost always come off as creepy.


Buck's alright, but still kind of an asshole about these things. She wants to have her cake and eat it, too.


Very much so and as recently adjudicated by the courts in the UK, I also see this as a medical experiment. The readiness of the medical establishment to throw caution to the wind for this cause was one of many many red flags for me.


For what it's worth, I also think that transitioning might be the right choice for some people. The implications of that are up for debate, though. And I also think "informed consent"-models are terrible - we've treated gender dysphoria in most Western countries for the past 50 years and only recently have the established protocols come under attack for being too strict.

Yes. Red flags abound. And mind you, 90% of the time I don’t think there’s malice on the part of the doctors, or the scientists making the medicine. Doctors generally want their patients to be healthy and they do what they think they have to to get their patients to come in.

The concept of dysphoria always seemed a bit flimsy to me. Talk to many women after having a kid or three and they experience some sort of dysmorphia based on how their bodies changed. Same with anorexics and people who obsess over looks. In this thread we’ve discussed the idea that an early or very quick puberty could bring about dysphoria because the body changes faster than brain can catch up. But the mind should be allowed to catch up.

I have no doubt that there are a select few to whom transition will always be the answer, but I think for many you have parents trying to protect their children from feeling discomfort, and stunting their growth in the process.

Whatcha think? Troll or a genuine case of an autistic man who tumbled down the sissyfication rabbit hole?

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The lack of comments cracks me up tho.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transpassing/comments/kg6uiv/howmydoon/

He looks like an 80s wrestler. Bet he cleans up nice.

 

[dappouROCK]

technically women are the ones that can't be feminists,

I would like you to realize how stupid this sounds.

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights based on equality of sex. Even if it was used as an insult against men, saying that women can't be feminists is the pinnacle of retardation.

 

[Old Fart]

It's funny that the actual medically "safest" way to transition as a prepubsecent MtF would be an orchiectomy followed by IM estradiol valerate, but that's obviously considered unconscionable.

And yet, some countries were or are dangerously close to allowing that. England seems to have backed away just in time from allowing puberty blockers to kids under 16, but if Tavistock had won, I could have predicted the next step.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

And yet, some countries were or are dangerously close to allowing that. England seems to have backed away just in time from allowing puberty blockers to kids under 16, but if Tavistock had won, I could have predicted the next step.

It'd probably dissuade most kids from transitioning. An orchiectomy or hysterectomy + bilateral salpingo-oopherectomy as first line is a bit more visceral and obviously permanent than taking GnRH agonists, especially when you're convinced GnRH agonists are reversible.

If you wanna be in you gotta be in for real