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Fujo hates that people remind her that she's not and never will be male:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/k35ecj/ohhh_my_god_how_hard_is_it_to_educate_the/ (Archive)

Why would anyone deadname him and think that he's male:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/k35jve/are_people_really_too_dense_to_put_together_what/ (Archive)
https://www.reddit.com/r/trans/comments/ixwkzg/feeling_dumb_cute_at_work_today/ (Archive)
 
Ruin powiedział(a):
You really don't see how troons are the logical endpoint of rhetoric like "there are no differences between men and woman?"
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I used to subscribe to that brand of feminism and we never took phrases like that to encompass physical differences between men/women but mental ones. I don’t subscribe to it any longer and I don’t really do much social media though, so who knows how it might have evolved?
 
Well Kiwis, after reading through that bathhouse story on the last page and 1719 pages of this mess, I've feel like I've gone through the stages most of us go through reading these troon threads.

Stage one is where you are just a normie feeling actual gender euphoria for being a real woman or real man that God made and not some Cronenburgian nightmare.

Stage two is where you start googling things like where the nearest SSPX parish is and contemplating the merits of going full sedevacantist Tradcath vs moving to Arizona to attend Faithful Word Baptist with Pastor Steven Anderson and getting saved as an independent Fundamental King James Only Baptist.

Stage three is just losing all hope and praying for a meteor or the yellowstone volcano to sort this all out.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
So, basically, it's that they think that obviously there are physical differences between men and women, but not so much mental difference? Like meaning that they don't think women are more nurturing for example because of being women, but because they are brought up that way, and if boys in general were brought up to be more nurturing then they would be also that way? Or that boys liking ice hockey isn't a biological thing but a cultural thing and so on. Like our bodies are different, our minds too in some things, but we could be mentally so much closer to each other if we didn't build so many mental dividers between each other.,
 
Chamaelirium powiedział(a):
Well Kiwis, after reading through that bathhouse story on the last page and 1719 pages of this mess, I've feel like I've gone through the stages most of us go through reading these troon threads.

Stage one is where you are just a normie feeling actual gender euphoria for being a real woman or real man that God made and not some Cronenburgian nightmare.

Stage two is where you start googling things like where the nearest SSPX parish is and contemplating the merits of going full sedevacantist Tradcath vs moving to Arizona to attend Faithful Word Baptist with Pastor Steven Anderson and getting saved as an independent Fundamental King James Only Baptist.

Stage three is just losing all hope and praying for a meteor or the yellowstone volcano to sort this all out.
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There’s an ex SSPX priest on here, he could probably tell you where the least weird churches are. (Just kidding, they’re all weird! Also technically not ‘parishes’ because they’re a religious order separate from the diocese or whatever).

I don’t think conservative Christianity is a solution to this, because it also breeds repression and weird sexual behavior.
 
Zodomy powiedział(a):
It's mindboggling how radfems can't see how they're to blame for their own predicament.
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Ruin powiedział(a):
You really don't see how troons are the logical endpoint of rhetoric like "there are no differences between men and woman?"
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I understand where you're coming from, but feminism has as much responsibility for the trans menace as a women's bathroom does for being a girl club that trannies want to invade.

Tradfeminist concepts like "there are no inherent mental differences between men and women" and "gender is a construct" are actually completely opposed to transgenderism. Because if there's no innate brain difference, you can't have a sparkly pink girl-brain trapped in a man's body. And if gender is a construct, then there's no soul-like "gender identity" imbued in all of us at birth. That's why they need to supplant feminism with transgenderism. It's also why they supplanted the gay pride movement and tacked the T on, because if gender is on a spectrum and sex is mutable like trans activists insist, then homosexuality doesn't exist. Transgenderism is completely inconsistent with gay pride and feminism, so they had to undermine both.

If you still want to blame feminism, it'd be more accurate to blame the separatist offshoot of Black feminism which metastasized into "Womanism", because they were the ones who created the concept of "Intersectionality" and deriding "white feminism" as not representing people of different races and genders. Though to be fair to them, they never originally intended "insectionality" to mean what it does today. It was meant to analyze how there's a special kind of sexism for black women - often within their own community - that's tinged by their race. It was not meant to mean "everything intersects so whatever is the cause du jour, I'll keep screaming about trans rights!"
 
horsegirl666 powiedział(a):
So, basically, it's that they think that obviously there are physical differences between men and women, but not so much mental difference? Like meaning that they don't think women are more nurturing for example because of being women, but because they are brought up that way, and if boys in general were brought up to be more nurturing then they would be also that way? Or that boys liking ice hockey isn't a biological thing but a cultural thing and so on. Like our bodies are different, our minds too in some things, but we could be mentally so much closer to each other if we didn't build so many mental dividers between each other.,
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When I used to go for that brand yes, that’s pretty close to what I believed.

That said, I think I goodly part of that thinking had to do with going to work in what used to be a masculine field.

When you’ve got old men outright telling you that you don’t belong here and younger ones just keeping their heads down so they don’t get yelled at it teaches you to suppress any traditionally feminine aspects of yourself in favor of more masculine ones, becoming “just one of the guys”
I no longer subscribe to this, because I think we are different, but those differences can both bring so much to life/a workplace that denying one access is just plain stupid. I also hated those years of dressing like a slob and “acting tough” and I see no reason to make anyone else, male or female, go through that. It’s a huge reason why I support trans ppl, but have grown very skeptical of the “trans movement”
 
OttoWest powiedział(a):
That’s not a rad fem stance. If anything rad fems are arguably more for the separation of the sexes because they acknowledge the inherent differences.
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Based?
Rotter powiedział(a):
There is this thing in the UK called LGB Alliance. They see the troon menace for what it is and had some online seminar. A gay rag called Boyz Magazine gave them some publicity. Then Twitter found out and the gays got scared.

Wyświetl załącznik 1754992

Not an expert on this shit since I'm straight, but I thought gay men were somewhat immune to this trans shit.
Reading the responses on Twitter is kinda interesting.

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*some conservative who works with technology every day and not just to use twitter*: lol

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YOU WILL NEVER BE AN ANIME GIRL
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Ctrl+Alt+Rt powiedział(a):
I understand where you're coming from, but feminism has as much responsibility for the trans menace as a women's bathroom does for being a girl club that trannies want to invade.

Tradfeminist concepts like "there are no inherent mental differences between men and women" and "gender is a construct" are actually completely opposed to transgenderism. Because if there's no innate brain difference, you can't have a sparkly pink girl-brain trapped in a man's body. And if gender is a construct, then there's no soul-like "gender identity" imbued in all of us at birth. That's why they need to supplant feminism with transgenderism. It's also why they supplanted the gay pride movement and tacked the T on, because if gender is on a spectrum and sex is mutable like trans activists insist, then homosexuality doesn't exist. Transgenderism is completely inconsistent with gay pride and feminism, so they had to undermine both.

If you still want to blame feminism, it'd be more accurate to blame the separatist offshoot of Black feminism which metastasized into "Womanism", because they were the ones who created the concept of "Intersectionality" and deriding "white feminism" as not representing people of different races and genders. Though to be fair to them, they never originally intended "insectionality" to mean what it does today. It was meant to analyze how there's a special kind of sexism for black women - often within their own community - that's tinged by their race. It was not meant to mean "everything intersects so whatever is the cause du jour, I'll keep screaming about trans rights!"
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As someone who is fairly unambiguously lefty, the TRAs on the left drive me fucking nuts. How do you possibly reconcile troonism with progressivism? I don't always agree with the leftist movement, I'm somewhat hawkish on foreign policy, but I don't mind when a leftist argues with me there because it's a difference of opinion. When it comes to trans shit though it seems to be difference of reality.
 
Neko GF powiedział(a):
Fujo hates that people remind her that she's not and never will be male:
Wyświetl załącznik 1755665
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Everyone knows the difference between sex and gender, we just know that sex is real, and gender (the way you* mean it) is a feeling in your head you'd like us all to validate.
TRAs treat the words "man" and "woman" as gender identities, when they are THE terms for human males and females.
If you are female, you indeed will NEVER be man, but might claim the gender identity of "trans man".
People that want to date men only (gay men and straight women) will not see you as a man.
We know sex is different than gender. You just think your gender (feeling in your own head) is more important than the obvious unchanging sex (physical reality) we all see.

*you refers to this delusional young lady
 
Garbage.Theory powiedział(a):
When you’ve got old men outright telling you that you don’t belong here and younger ones just keeping their heads down so they don’t get yelled at it teaches you to suppress any traditionally feminine aspects of yourself in favor of more masculine ones, becoming “just one of the guys”
I no longer subscribe to this, because I think we are different, but those differences can both bring so much to life/a workplace that denying one access is just plain stupid. I also hated those years of dressing like a slob and “acting tough” and I see no reason to make anyone else, male or female, go through that.
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It's an interesting tension: when you acknowledge that gender differences are the result of culture and upbringing, do you throw the proverbial baby out with bathwater, declaring it to all be bad, all created to keep people restricted and oppressed? Or do you acknowledge the utility of some gendered cultural values even if you disagree with the strict assignment of it to one gender or the other?

It seems to me a lot of feminists are caught in this tension. You have the ones who reject femininity as inherently repressive, then you have others who are embracing Wicca and tarot cards to 'celebrate their femininity'. Maybe a middle path is best, and that's by relaxing the gender roles and norms to allow people freer expression while keeping critiques focused solely on the ones that are harmful to people instead of painting a broad brush on all of them. I never really understood why "there are no innate gender differences" has to mean women must act like men, rather than both meeting each other halfway. Like, for your example, men actually putting some care into their dressing and grooming.

Surfin Terf powiedział(a):
As someone who is fairly unambiguously lefty, the TRAs on the left drive me fucking nuts. How do you possibly reconcile troonism with progressivism? I don't always agree with the leftist movement, I'm somewhat hawkish on foreign policy, but I don't mind when a leftist argues with me there because it's a difference of opinion. When it comes to trans shit though it seems to be difference of reality.
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With transgenderism, I think people accept it in theory - 'sure why not, I guess that's possible, poor things' - and become more skeptical when they actually meet a transgender person. The left wants to be so welcome and open to everyone despite their differences that it can blind them to reality. Including the reality that many of the other identity-based groups they've welcomed into the fold aren't down with the transgender agenda.
 
Talking about being accepting, it's so fucking ironic to me that they let trannies in but whenever someone even jokes about adding pedos to the LGBTQ list they scream like banshees. Trans people and pedos have more in common than gays and gaydens. Some of them suffer from what they are and a minority even gets chemically castrated, the rest enjoys being perverts and want the age of consent to be lowered to 5. Kinda reminds me of some demographic.
 
murdercats powiedział(a):
Talking about being accepting, it's so fucking ironic to me that they let trannies in but whenever someone even jokes about adding pedos to the LGBTQ list they scream like banshees. Trans people and pedos have more in common than gays and gaydens. Some of them suffer from what they are and a minority even gets chemically castrated, the rest enjoys being perverts and want the age of consent to be lowered to 5. Kinda reminds me of some demographic.
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I think you've struck on exactly why the trannies don't want open pedos added to the ever-growing roster of alphabet people. Their presence only highlights the fact that they're essentially identical. Trannies are the Trojan Horse intended to achieve what NAMBLA failed to in the 70s and 80s vis-a-vis getting gays to shelter kiddy fiddlers.
 
Ctrl+Alt+Rt powiedział(a):
It's an interesting tension: when you acknowledge that gender differences are the result of culture and upbringing, do you throw the proverbial baby out with bathwater, declaring it to all be bad, all created to keep people restricted and oppressed? Or do you acknowledge the utility of some gendered cultural values even if you disagree with the strict assignment of it to one gender or the
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Ah the old “is it Nature, Nurture or a Delicate intertwining of both that’s nearly impossible to tease out due to the fact that human culture can be construed as a part of nature regardless”

Fun times had by all!

personally I’m in the “if it brings you happiness, go for it” camp. If you’re the sort of woman that wants to do a red tent party, fine, go for it. Harms no one and makes you feel good.
If you’re the kind of guy who wants to go hunting, rad, that’s you're thing. And that goes for women who want to weld and men who want to embroider too. Stuff like that is almost solely social

I’m even sure that there are trans ppl for reals. They have been around longer than the current fad, and there’s enough futziness around genetics and genitals that I can see it working.

The dislike is where I feel like men are just play acting at being women (and I don’t mean in a silly drag sorta way). Like, if you’re a dude who wants to wear a dress, fine. But don’t go calling yourself a woman when you’ve never even lived as one for more than a half a day. Have some respect for the fact that you were raised differently than your average woman, that you were never called a bitch when you spoke up or had to help a co worker get through sexual harassment when you know she’ll just lose her job if she complains.

sorry. New to this thread and I’m getting too crazy. His isn’t about me, but I meant it when I said this is oddly cathartic so I hope any annoyance at me will be fleeting.
 
Garbage.Theory powiedział(a):
Ah the old “is it Nature, Nurture or a Delicate intertwining of both that’s nearly impossible to tease out due to the fact that human culture can be construed as a part of nature regardless”

Fun times had by all!

personally I’m in the “if it brings you happiness, go for it” camp. If you’re the sort of woman that wants to do a red tent party, fine, go for it. Harms no one and makes you feel good.
If you’re the kind of guy who wants to go hunting, rad, that’s you're thing. And that goes for women who want to weld and men who want to embroider too. Stuff like that is almost solely social

I’m even sure that there are trans ppl for reals. They have been around longer than the current fad, and there’s enough futziness around genetics and genitals that I can see it working.

The dislike is where I feel like men are just play acting at being women (and I don’t mean in a silly drag sorta way). Like, if you’re a dude who wants to wear a dress, fine. But don’t go calling yourself a woman when you’ve never even lived as one for more than a half a day. Have some respect for the fact that you were raised differently than your average woman, that you were never called a bitch when you spoke up or had to help a co worker get through sexual harassment when you know she’ll just lose her job if she complains.

sorry. New to this thread and I’m getting too crazy. His isn’t about me, but I meant it when I said this is oddly cathartic so I hope any annoyance at me will be fleeting.
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It's fine, some ladies do feel the same here. Those men just want to get the nice part of being a woman ( and validating their fetish of course ), without knowing what being a woman really means.
And when they can't, they get violent.
 
Ctrl+Alt+Rt powiedział(a):
I never really understood why "there are no innate gender differences" has to mean women must act like men, rather than both meeting each other halfway. Like, for your example, men actually putting some care into their dressing and grooming.
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I hate to be “that feminist” but it is linked to misogyny. A girl wants to dress/act mannish, well that’s just fine. A boy wants to dress/act feminine and suddenly we’re going to psychiatrists . Traditionally masculine endeavors are seen as strong and important while traditionally feminine ones are seen as weak and frivolous. Even things like sports, which tend to be viewed as masculine are based heavily in strength and competition to give them an air of importance where one isn’t really earned.
I often wonder if some men go trans, not because they know they are women inside, but because they are too ashamed to be men with feminine pursuits. Just like women breaking into spaces formerly for men, it’s probably really hard for guys to break into a feminine space as a guy. (I’m talking knitting circles here, not bathrooms) I’ve engaged in many feminine pursuits and I’ve never once seen ladies turn an honest guy away. Hell if anything he maybe gets a 10minute warning before being subjected to cramp talk and aunties trying to marry him off.
 
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