Comicsgate Hangers-On and Drama Whores - A thread about some guy who's mad about Star Wars and the neckbeards obsessively stalking him

[WhimsicalTrolli]

Did Comic Book Hut and Preston Poulter not try to get Jeff Hicks sued by Disney and Harrison Ford, only for them to turn around and say that it was just parody?

I think most of us know that was a dumbass gayop tbh, yeah the delivery was at first trash but trying to get Disney and Harrison suing him when the book was a parody is stupid, hut is basically a anti cg version of the 10 minute video 2 color font with picture anti sjw or cg tube as it can get like tug and flash.

 

[Ivan Shatov]

From what I can see, there are a lot of people that don't have a grasp of economics, advertising or human psychology. Many of the arguments begin and end with personality conflicts and as soon as personality is brought into it, any objective analysis of the product/business goes out the window.

First of all, anyone can go back throughout history and see that some of the most successful businesses/companies/people were not remotely popular/nice/everyone's bestie. Rockefeller, Ford. Edison, insert industrial Revolution baron here. Every one of these guys saw a market, understood where it could be exploited and either did so themselves or hired the people that could. Ford and Edison were two examples of people that had no end of detractors offering up conflicting rationalizations of why the assembly line or AC/the light bulb was going to fail.

And there were no end of people using every underhanded trick and lie in the book to thwart them.

Ford understood that everyone could use a car. Most people wanted a car. So he created the assembly line to make as many as he could sell. That went over like a church farting bee with the horse/buggy industry. EVS/YBZ saw a market for the comics people always loved and no one still made. The industry of Comics today is co-opted by politics and agenda. So EVS/YBZ removed that from their model.

This upset a handful of people who wanted CG to be either their personal battering ram, or their fans. We already know and understand that aspect of all this. But when you keep looking, you find what? People pissed off about MONEY. Just like the SJWs.

So now go back to the beginning of this post. People don't understand that the economic reality of low volume printing and distribution cost dramatically more than a Marvel/DC book through Diamond. Have they TRIED mailing a book lately? It's gonna cost them the same thing it costs EVS/YBZ or any other creator. $10-25 depending on where it's going.

You are already at 5x the cost of a mainstream book before printing costs, colorer/lettering, paying the artist etc. But somehow the accusations of greed and grift fly from economic illiterates, troublemakers or both. Because it's not coming from customers. They just want the cheapest price possible and right now, thats what the price is.

And then there's the personality conflict driven aspect. There's not a lot to be done there other than either fighting the BS that comes from it, or letting a bunch of SJW/Anti types destroy CG business. And these people willfully refuse to see this all as someone's business. They only see 'grift' 'A Ripoff" etc. We are talking 7 figure books now. It's not outside the realm of 'industrial sabotage' when that level of cash is in the offing... And we have ALREADY SEEN Marvel senior management and DC senior management tweet/hire etc, the very SJWs trying to destroy CG with false claims and blacklisting any creator who will work with a CG company/creator.

Do the Antis and SJWs have reason to mock, block and shout down CG or it's supporters? Well, just look to the past. They have been doing exactly that for what? Three years now?

TLDR: Think about the bigger picture before going off with a mad-on about the above points. All this crap happens for a reason. If the product is what you want as a customer, why create the drama to begin with? If it's not what you want as a customer, then why create the drama to begin with?

Although I disagree with everything you said, I appreciate the feedback.

CG appears to have all the elements of a classic business model. What I've considered is customer segments, value propositions, sales / marketing channels, ways of managing relationships with each segment, revenue streams, access to key resources, articulated activities, marketing / production / fulfillment partnerships and a cost structure. While my perspective is limited, activity is evident in each of these areas. I don't need detailed insight to understand the basics of the business model nor do I believe I'm biased from listening to some shows.

Can you help me understand what's missing? Like, if this is not a business, what piece is deficient?

The material things you cited - cost to print, cost to ship, costs for creatives, etc - are all economies of scale. Every CG creator handles these costs individually, which is expensive. Those costs go down per item when volume increases. I suspect CG creators will figure out a way to reduce costs as they continue down this road.

The attitudinal things you cited - people just want to buy a car, personality driven conflict, creators being driven off - don't appear to impact the business model. If people just wanted to buy a comic book, there are many non-mainstream options available at a lower price. They want these comic books and are willing to pay a premium and wait months to get them. If people actually had a problem with the personalities in CG, that would have a market effect and we would be seeing migration away from the brand. Instead, we are seeing it grow. If creators were actually being driven off, we would see a decrease in the number of creators producing CG comics, not an increase.

The fact Doug and Mike no longer call themselves CG doesn't mean anything, they are just positioned differently relative to the brand. CG's competition is mainstream comics and politcally-correct entertainment, the job of CG creators is to find people who hate the competition. The total market for the US entertainment industry is huge, finding more people who are uncomfortable with the radical changes happening should be trivial.

 

[The Wisdom of Bassets]

Although I disagree with everything you said, I appreciate the feedback.

CG appears to have all the elements of a classic business model. What I've considered is customer segments, value propositions, sales / marketing channels, ways of managing relationships with each segment, revenue streams, access to key resources, articulated activities, marketing / production / fulfillment partnerships and a cost structure. While my perspective is limited, activity is evident in each of these areas. I don't need detailed insight to understand the basics of the business model nor do I believe I'm biased from listening to some shows.

Can you help me understand what's missing? Like, if this is not a business, what piece is deficient?

The material things you cited - cost to print, cost to ship, costs for creatives, etc - are all economies of scale. Every CG creator handles these costs individually, which is expensive. Those costs go down per item when volume increases. I suspect CG creators will figure out a way to reduce costs as they continue down this road.

The attitudinal things you cited - people just want to buy a car, personality driven conflict, creators being driven off - don't appear to impact the business model. If people just wanted to buy a comic book, there are many non-mainstream options available at a lower price. They want these comic books and are willing to pay a premium and wait months to get them. If people actually had a problem with the personalities in CG, that would have a market effect and we would be seeing migration away from the brand. Instead, we are seeing it grow. If creators were actually being driven off, we would see a decrease in the number of creators producing CG comics, not an increase.

The fact Doug and Mike no longer call themselves CG doesn't mean anything, they are just positioned differently relative to the brand. CG's competition is mainstream comics and politcally-correct entertainment, the job of CG creators is to find people who hate the competition. The total market for the US entertainment industry is huge, finding more people who are uncomfortable with the radical changes happening should be trivial.

Ok I am completely baffled here. At what point did I say this isn't a business? I'm arguing that it IS a business and people are screwing with it in the same ways SJWs always screw with business.

Attitudinal: Those very much DO impact the business model. Is Vic Mignogna not involved in a lawsuit at present because a bunch of SJWs decided to spread a bunch of falsehoods that have driven people away from conventions and impacted his employment directly?

Is Richard Meyer not involved in a lawsuit after an SJW by the name of Mark Waid spun up a tale of utter bullshit about racism, homophobia and white supremacy that resulted in Antarctic press being deluged by threats from SJWs? Did that not result in Antarctic breaking their contract with Meyer? Has it not cost him the ability to get his books into the traditional market?

All of that happened after special snowflakes with an agenda and made up 'offense' forced @FROG out of a 2 decade career in mainstream comics in a 'quit or be fired scenario, endangering his ability to make a future living and bringing untold stress to his family?

It is the height of absurdity to say "The attitudinal things you cited - people just want to buy a car, personality driven conflict, creators being driven off - don't appear to impact the business model" when they are going to impact ANY business model. Things like Tortuous interference, Blacklisting et all have resulted in everything from Legal action, Congressional hearings and various legislation to deal with unfair/criminal practices across the business spectrum. And especially when the two people mentioned have had their business/model directly impacted.

Now are we to believe people are being driven off by EVS when people line up for his backing, even a mention on his show? Are we to believe that a serious business is going to just say "Fuck it" because a croup of shitposters put dildos on memes? WTF kind of business would do that? But a business wanting to stay in business and prosper is sure as hell going to defend their business from a bunch of snowflakes spreading complete horseshit about them. Some may not like HOW that defense takes form, but thats their choice.

As to "the job of CG creators is to find people who hate the competition. " ... No, the job of CG creators is to make good quality entertainment. EVS and Zak say repeatedly that they dont care who buys the books. The Hotdog/toothpaste analogies are a prime example. And Mike and Doug had massive fits over that exact issue because EVS said he wasnt going intentionally antagonize gays because he wants to sell them books. Likewise for every other group.

We agree on a lot regarding this issue overall so I think somehow you and I are getting our wires crossed.

 

[The Wisdom of Bassets]

Oh and as for Zak Disavowing Comicsgate...Sorry

CG 'N Me

THE EXPENDABLES GO TO HELL Indiegogo Campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-expendables-go-to-hell-graphic-novel IRON SIGHTS: 2 PSYCHOS Indiegogo C...

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[Rupin]

Oh and as for Zak Disavowing Comicsgate...Sorry

CG 'N Me

THE EXPENDABLES GO TO HELL Indiegogo Campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-expendables-go-to-hell-graphic-novel IRON SIGHTS: 2 PSYCHOS Indiegogo C...

www.youtube.com

yeah I saw that too. Fuckin’ A man!

 

[The Wisdom of Bassets]

yeah I saw that too. Fuckin’ A man!

Now the snowflakes are in the comment section trying to...#blamewarcampaign.

SJWs until proven innocent.

 

[Adamska]

Or it could be that you two are massively insecure weirdos who only feel the remote tinge of validation by all agreeing with you given that very sad reaction to Zack going "eh, sure" after Ethan repeatedly demanded a fucking pledge of loyalty.

Like, the fuck was that shit I just read? Embarrassing at the very least that's for sure.

 

[Mister Dongs]

I knew right away just by looking at the image Meyer posted of "CG" and Zack being two separate entities that nothing in it refuted anything I said.

10:55 - "I don't CG as being a group or membership"
11:02 - *Zack dissembles about some taco franchise for forty seconds*
11:45: - "I see it as a concept, not a group"

He does not see Comicsgate as a group, therefore he cannot be a member of it.

11:54: "Other people see it completely differently, that's why I picked this one, there's people who call them CG and they're my friends and I sit on the same bench with them and then I get up and walk other places."

Hmmm, sounds exactly like what Doug TenNapel did before the CG "purists" turned on him and created a schism.

 

[KingofNothing]

Although not disavowing it sounds like Ya Boi is done with the CG label in general and is just gonna be Ya Boi Zack, guy who makes comics for the most part now. That's fine, the constant need for group labels is dumb anyway.

Hmmm, sounds exactly like what Doug TenNapel did before the CG "purists" turned on him and created a schism.

I also have to agree with this. @FROG I know you Doug have issues now, but it really seemed like he didn't sperg out on you until WC and the likes constantly went after him when he took the EWJ deal. Guys like Sketch Therapy are funny, right until they decide to focus on you.

 

[Rupin]

Or it could be that you two are massively insecure weirdos who only feel the remote tinge of validation by all agreeing with you given that very sad reaction to Zack going "eh, sure" after Ethan repeatedly demanded a fucking pledge of loyalty.

Like, the fuck was that shit I just read? Embarrassing at the very least that's for sure.

yet he keeps appearing on CG streams proving you wrong at every turn. He doesn’t have to say that he is CG when his name is synonymous with it. Anyway, he admitted he was CG in a video he did today. How’s that for validation?
Zack just doesn’t like the troll shit that goes on with both CG and Anti CG, and I can agree with him on that point.

 

[jspit]

yet he keeps appearing on CG streams proving you wrong at every turn. He doesn’t have to say that he is CG when his name is synonymous with it. Anyway, he admitted he was CG in a video he did today. How’s that for validation?
Zack just doesn’t like the troll shit that goes on with both CG and Anti CG, and I can agree with him on that point.

Richard's an adult. He knows he has nowhere else to go and he isn't dumb like people who left without a plan. He's found his comfy space as being the guy lending frog cred he wouldn't otherwise have.

Although not disavowing it sounds like Ya Boi is done with the CG label in general and is just gonna be Ya Boi Zack, guy who makes comics for the most part now. That's fine, the constant need for group labels is dumb anyway.


I also have to agree with this. @FROG I know you Doug have issues now, but it really seemed like he didn't sperg out on you until WC and the likes constantly went after him when he took the EWJ deal. Guys like Sketch Therapy are funny, right until they decide to focus on you.

Pretty spot on. They and Cecil hounded him for a long time until he bent the knee for them and made nice. If that was all a ploy good for him. Rule of thumb is, people turn on you at the drop of the hat like that, best to drop out on them first.

 

[FROG]

Although not disavowing it sounds like Ya Boi is done with the CG label in general and is just gonna be Ya Boi Zack, guy who makes comics for the most part now. That's fine, the constant need for group labels is dumb anyway.


I also have to agree with this. @FROG I know you Doug have issues now, but it really seemed like he didn't sperg out on you until WC and the likes constantly went after him when he took the EWJ deal. Guys like Sketch Therapy are funny, right until they decide to focus on you.

Zack has said over and over again that he doesn't like labels or clubs. He wouldn't be thought of as ComicsGate if there hadn't been something called "ComicsGate" that was generated around his social media activity. He wouldn't have ever created a movement, but at the same time, without the energy of the movement that erupted because of him, JAWBREAKERS probably wouldn't have happened either.

This isn't something he ever wanted. He wanted to read and enjoy comics that didn't insult him. And yet, his ideas have empowered him to become a successful independent creator, and frankly, if it wasn't for a single set of ideas crystalized by a word, "ComicsGate", the comic book industry would continue cannibalizing itself without a chance for an external uprising to create something new. Too many independent comics ventures fail. Why are we succeeding?

So it's a complicated thing for him.

I don't have those qualms. As someone who devoted two decades of my life to mainstream comics, I want the people who have been disenfranchised by the comics industry to respond together and create something that works. It's a network of social media users that works together to promote independent comics that align with Zack's ideas about what the comics business should be like. What is that thing called? It's called ComicsGate. It's the label SJWs gave Zack's efforts to make his ideas seem scandalous. It's kinda wonderful that most of us now wear it proudly. I can't really blame Zack for wanting to distance himself from that label. I was there during all of the bullshit and horror he went through. I went through it too. It changed both of our lives.

Zack IS ComicsGate by all means, he simply is. For one moment, it seemed to people who want to see ComicsGate deflated that Zack was denouncing it, and he needed to clarify that to him, "ComicsGate" just means good customer service in comics. He doesn't want picket lines or warring factions or anything like that. In his opinion, this all should just be common sense, that every rational person agrees with. He doesn't want to be a culture warrior, he just hopes from here he'll be permitted to make his comics.

ComicsGate will see to it that he can, and no longer has to worry about it.

 

[Adamska]

yet he keeps appearing on CG streams proving you wrong at every turn. He doesn’t have to say that he is CG when his name is synonymous with it. Anyway, he admitted he was CG in a video he did today. How’s that for validation?
Zack just doesn’t like the troll shit that goes on with both CG and Anti CG, and I can agree with him on that point.

Okay weirdo.

Like, this isn't much of a win given you're still coming off as insecure and embarrassing right now because some goofy dad decided to be mature while still backing a buddy who wouldn't leave him alone on this loyalty shit. Like you're actively cheering and celebrating at a half assed "yeah, sure" video.

It doesn't change my opinion that CG is dying due to gay slap fights between middle aged men too retarded to leave twitter and the insecure speds that back them, and in fact now I'm tanking hard on you as a person if something this simple got you that fucking pumped.

 

[Rupin]

Okay weirdo.

Like, this isn't much of a win given you're still coming off as insecure and embarrassing right now because some goofy dad decided to be mature while still backing a buddy who wouldn't leave him alone on this loyalty shit. Like you're actively cheering and celebrating at a half assed "yeah, sure" video.

It doesn't change my opinion that CG is dying due to gay slap fights between middle aged men too exceptional to leave twitter and the insecure speds that back them, and in fact now I'm tanking hard on you as a person if something this simple got you that fucking pumped.

yeah, CG is totally dying... yet I keep seeing CG creator’s hit 5 figures within a couple hours after their projects launch whereas Anti CG projects like Napalm Bros and Seicho 66 will be lucky if they even hit 5 G’s throughout their whole campaign. Tell me again how CG is dying?

CG is made up of thousands of fans who all support new creators and get them numbers that non CG creators who have been in the game a long time can only dream of.

 

[Adamska]

yeah, CG is totally dying... yet I keep seeing CG creator’s hit 5 figures within a couple hours after their projects launch whereas Anti CG projects like Napalm Bros and Seicho 66 will be lucky if they even hit 5 G’s throughout their whole campaign. Tell me again how CG is dying?

CG is made up of thousands of fans who all support new creators and get them numbers that non CG creators who have been in the game a long time can only dream of.

Yeah, I'm heading to bed.

You should too, since your rambling here reminds me of some of the fever dream ramblings I'd hear from a deluded and dying character on say the Twilight Zone. Mainly because the only guy who's growing really is Zack, who barely fucking mentions this rapidly appearing to be a tribal cult of some sort given the hyperbole here.

 

[FROG]

Yeah, I'm heading to bed.

You should too, since your rambling here reminds me of some of the fever dream ramblings I'd hear from a deluded and dying character on say the Twilight Zone. Mainly because the only guy who's growing really is Zack, who barely fucking mentions this rapidly appearing to be a tribal cult of some sort given the hyperbole here.

Every single ComicsGater's campaign is improving on it's prior campaign. All of them are growing.

 

[jspit]

Every single ComicsGater's campaign is improving on it's prior campaign. All of them are growing.

How and in what way. That's an ambiguous statement. Are these campaigns the same length? Are these projects of the exact same creative teams?

What is improvement? Raw money versus backers. If you squeeze fifty to a hundred thousand out of basically the same group is that growth? I'm not making a statement of fact. What I've heard are the same talking points, but growth of market share versus growth in profit are to different things.

Perfect example, Jawbreakers Lost souls versus Godking. Lost Souls made more money, more backers overall. Iron Sights 1 and 2 have done about the same. Not exactly growth.

Jon Malin's Graveyard Shift did roughly 60 grand better but only picked up 200 and some change backers.

The new crowd, Stoker, VonKlaus, aren't equalling your first inner circles campaigns. I don't see across the board improvement. I see Richard staying the same, Malin growing some, and a pretty firm ceiling. Still better than your other crowdfunders in dollar amount.

 

[The Wisdom of Bassets]

How and in what way. That's an ambiguous statement. Are these campaigns the same length? Are these projects of the exact same creative teams?

What is improvement? Raw money versus backers. If you squeeze fifty to a hundred thousand out of basically the same group is that growth? I'm not making a statement of fact. What I've heard are the same talking points, but growth of market share versus growth in profit are to different things.

Perfect example, Jawbreakers Lost souls versus Godking. Lost Souls made more money, more backers overall. Iron Sights 1 and 2 have done about the same. Not exactly growth.

Jon Malin's Graveyard Shift did roughly 60 grand better but only picked up 200 and some change backers.

The new crowd, Stoker, VonKlaus, aren't equaling your first inner circles campaigns. I don't see across the board improvement. I see Richard staying the same, Malin growing some, and a pretty firm ceiling. Still better than your other crowdfunders in dollar amount.

Stoker and the new guys cannot POSSIBLY be directly compared to a near 3 decade professional with a rack of books that hit the 'all time best' lists, another pro that in addition to his great art, stirred the hornets nest that was worth tens of thousands of dollars in marketing, and the third, who is 'the guy" who lit the mainstream's ass on fire and runs a massively successful channel on YT.

They are first time campaigns from people with no or very little name recognition/track record. So naturally, they are going to begin lower on average.

As for 'Defining growth" there are several ways to judge it. You can grow vertically, with (for example) one franchise/book and do a book a year. The 2nd year outselling the first is growth.

Or you can sell 5 books a year, split between different book/franchises, one shots etc. If your sales and OR customer base expands over your prior outing, thats growth.

You can sell no books at all, but do a youtube channel and every time you increase subs/viewers in a consistent manner and earn profit via superchat/ads in the process, that too is growth.

When you mix a little or a lot of each category together, reaching more people, selling more books, making more sales OR MORE PROFIT in the process, that is growth.

It is impossible to look at the actual facts on the ground, sales/viewership of Comicsgate people/companies today vs. one year ago today and say that Comicsgate is dying/shrinking/stagnant. The numbers just are not there to support that assertion.

 

[Ivan Shatov]

Ok I am completely baffled here. At what point did I say this isn't a business? I'm arguing that it IS a business and people are screwing with it in the same ways SJWs always screw with business.

Attitudinal: Those very much DO impact the business model. Is Vic Mignogna not involved in a lawsuit at present because a bunch of SJWs decided to spread a bunch of falsehoods that have driven people away from conventions and impacted his employment directly?

Is Richard Meyer not involved in a lawsuit after an SJW by the name of Mark Waid spun up a tale of utter bullshit about racism, homophobia and white supremacy that resulted in Antarctic press being deluged by threats from SJWs? Did that not result in Antarctic breaking their contract with Meyer? Has it not cost him the ability to get his books into the traditional market?

All of that happened after special snowflakes with an agenda and made up 'offense' forced @FROG out of a 2 decade career in mainstream comics in a 'quit or be fired scenario, endangering his ability to make a future living and bringing untold stress to his family?

It is the height of absurdity to say "The attitudinal things you cited - people just want to buy a car, personality driven conflict, creators being driven off - don't appear to impact the business model" when they are going to impact ANY business model. Things like Tortuous interference, Blacklisting et all have resulted in everything from Legal action, Congressional hearings and various legislation to deal with unfair/criminal practices across the business spectrum. And especially when the two people mentioned have had their business/model directly impacted.

Now are we to believe people are being driven off by EVS when people line up for his backing, even a mention on his show? Are we to believe that a serious business is going to just say "Fuck it" because a croup of shitposters put dildos on memes? WTF kind of business would do that? But a business wanting to stay in business and prosper is sure as hell going to defend their business from a bunch of snowflakes spreading complete horseshit about them. Some may not like HOW that defense takes form, but thats their choice.

As to "the job of CG creators is to find people who hate the competition. " ... No, the job of CG creators is to make good quality entertainment. EVS and Zak say repeatedly that they dont care who buys the books. The Hotdog/toothpaste analogies are a prime example. And Mike and Doug had massive fits over that exact issue because EVS said he wasnt going intentionally antagonize gays because he wants to sell them books. Likewise for every other group.

We agree on a lot regarding this issue overall so I think somehow you and I are getting our wires crossed.

I may have misread your original post. Sorry if I missed what you were trying to say.

That said - yes, it is CG's job to find everyone who is tired of woke politics in entertainment. That's how to grow the brand and expand the market.

Some of them will want to buy comics, some of them will want to support videos, some will buy t-shirts and go to conventions, some of them will just want to bitch online, but the goal should be to fully expose every one of them to the brand and its partners. Even if someone doesn't want to buy a comic book, they should be able to recall the name Comicsgate and know what it stands for.

The things you mentioned - the lawsuit, the attacks on people's careers, the anti-comicsgaters, etc - in my opinion, they have no impact on the business model. They are realities of the environment in which CG operates, but they are external to the process of delivering value to customers. These things can be used to generate attention as a form of marketing, they can be used as the subject of books, they can be used in other ways. CG creators are not going to sell another way in response, they are not going to find new strategic partners in response, they are not going to find different customer segments in response.

Comicsgate does not depend on more events like this happening in order to grow. At this point, enough people have been exposed to woke bullshit in their daily lives to know they want an alternative. Comicsgate just needs to find more effective ways to make themselves that alternative, which is what this phase of brand growth is all about.

That blathering idiot jspit was going on about how comicsgate is dead or something. Remember moronic perverts like that one don't recognize how growth happens, and the actual number of backers on a crowdsourcing campaign is less important than the awareness that comes with being recognized as the canonical opposition to a trend that's sorely disliked. The total views on Fandom Menace videos is probably the most significant metric for CG growth, that's actual impressions to an audience with a deeply passionate affinity.

AFAIK those metrics climb every day, sometimes by the thousands. CG will eventually figure out how to capture them, with a website, with a newsletter, with a something else that gets people up to speed with the greater brand at a low cost of entry. There still a lot of business fundamentals to work out, and that's what this stage of development is all about.

 

[boofit]

I'm not making a statement of fact.

No shit Sherlock