Trump Derangement Syndrome - Orange man bad. Read the OP! (ᴛʜɪs ᴛʜʀᴇᴀᴅ ɪs ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴋɪᴡɪ ғᴀʀᴍs ʀᴇᴠɪᴇᴡs ɴᴏᴡ) 🗿🗿🗿🗿

So they don't officially wage war, but they fund the Hezbollah to kill everyone else. That's arguably worse than anyone else as they're all over the place. Not to mention killing protestors of the Iran and Lebanon governments.
Hezbollah is:
A) an official political party representing a plurality of Lebanese voters, and
B) a militia formed in response to Israeli aggression into Lebanon, which mainly operates on the Lebanese border and in contested territory with Israel

You can fault them for internal authoritarianism all you want, but they're not a colonial nation. They're the Shiite Great Power and they fund Shiite interests. And Shiites aren't the ones blowing up buses in England or running people over in NYC.
 
Meanwhile just because the CIA did them dirty in 1953 that will forever make Iran the poor, innocent victims who dindu nuffin forever. It's dumb.
There is also no proof that the Islamic Revolution wouldn't have happened against the socialist regime that came to power in the 50's.

There seems to be a myth that the only successful coups/revolutions/counter-revolutions are ones that happen with Yanqui funding/prompting.

To be fair, Iran has actually been pretty good about not waging war on its neighbors. They engage in proxy warfare, but only to prop up Shiite exclaves against genocide by the Sunni-Jewish axis. See: Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. Before those territories were in danger they really weren't involved and just wanted us and the Brits to GTFO and give them back their oil industry.
Except they are also doing the genociding though. The Houthis have engaged in blatant attacks against Sunni population centers and the tiny token Sunni minority that fights alongside the Houthis does so under the "silver or lead" condition, where they either get Iranian terror bucks to join or get their family slaughtered to refuse. Iraq has been a shitbox with the two groups killing each other since Saddam went down, and now with the recent crack-downs the Shiites have only upped the pressure on their Sunni and Christian countrymen. Syria hardly needs explanation. Lebanon is less physical shooting and more consolidation of political power, but that country is a tinderbox waiting to go up and no doubt Hezbollah would start depopulating Sunnis while holding the Christians and Druze at gunpoint and force them to pick a side in the carnage.

Now don't misqoute me, I'm not some moral-fagging neocon pretending its our duty to go save the dindu nuffin Sunnis (or Christians or Kurds) - fuck'em both. But to act like Iran's proxies in Iraq & Yemen aren't actively involved in a campaign of depopulation is ignorant at best.
 
Hezbollah is:
A) an official political party representing a plurality of Lebanese voters, and
B) a militia formed in response to Israeli aggression into Lebanon, which mainly operates on the Lebanese border and in contested territory with Israel

You can fault them for internal authoritarianism all you want, but they're not a colonial nation. They're the Shiite Great Power and they fund Shiite interests. And Shiites aren't the ones blowing up buses in England or running people over in NYC.

Hi, I'd like to talk to you about a decade called "The 70s". I understand that it doesn't fit your narrative, but I'm not entirely sure that airlines count as traditionally arabic territory, but holy fuck did they like to hijack them and blow them up. Also, the pieces of Shiite only comprise about 10% of muslims, so one should fucking hope that 13% of the muslims aren't committing 50% of the terror attacks.

Additionally, I while I can appreciate that yes, all Jews do need to die, your point about Hezbollah needing to liberate the traditionally Muslim homeland of Venezeula is perhaps granting them a bit too much latitude, and maybe the fact they operate out of that country signifies something other austere religious interests.

Didn't Iran hated the Russian when they were invading Iraq? I mean, I know that Iraq wanted our help in repelling the Russian invaders, only to kick us to the curb when it was over. Then Iraq invaded Kuwait and started the Gulf War, so they became our enemies then, only we left without them surrendering. My point is, the Middle East hates America, but when some other "big bad country" tries to take over, they want our help.

Saddam wanted to be Arab Jesus. He was shaping up to be a "sure you have no civil rights, but now we have trains AND they run on time" authoritarian leader just like daddy. Then around the late 70's he got it in his head that he could create and lead a pan-Arab axis. And this where everything went wrong.

Now, this will seem funny and ironic to non-arab and non-iranians, but the Iranians are a different ethnic group, the Persians. And the Arabs and Persians don't like each other. So Saddam started a war with Iran, the idea being to show how awesome he was, because Iran had pissed off the US and the USSR (and china, at the time, was global non-entity except for things related to china)

In proof that Arabs are just a different flavor of Jew, Saudi Arabia - who had a long dislike of Iran. Long, long dislike. The House of Saud has issues with the Persians predating the crusades, but we'll stay on topic. - loans Iraq the money to fund the war. So does Kuwait, Oman and the UAE, though not at much.

The US, while not liking Iran, doesn't want the power balance in the region to shift that rapidly. There is also concerns that Iraq will do genocide games if they take over large areas, which would prompt direct US involvement. So the US sells weapons to both sides, and allows the Russians to do the same. This goes on for a while until its pretty clear to everyone involved that both sides are evenly matched and will keep slaughtering each other over the same 3 miles of terrain forever if they aren't stopped.

Saudi Arabia, again showing just how much they've learned from their jewish cousins, then pretty much reveals their plan the whole time was to fuck over both Iran and Iraq, because Iraq was threatening Saudi Arabia's dominance in the Arab World. Saudi Arabia stops givng new loans, and calls in their existing ones, along with all the other Arab countries; Iraq is now turbo fucked financially, the repayment ammounts, and the inability to get new loans, cripple the Iraqi economy - just as planned.

This eventually leads us to the 1st Gulf War, where Iraq realizes that you don't have to pay back loans if you just take over the country you owe money too.

tl;dr Glass the middle east, kill everyone or it will never stop.
 
Ostatnio edytowane przez moderatora:
Saddam wanted to be Arab Jesus. He was shaping up to be a "sure you have no civil rights, but now we have trains AND they run on time" authoritarian leader just like daddy. Then around the late 70's he got it in his head that he could create and lead a pan-Arab axis. And this where everything went wrong.

Now, this will seem funny and ironic to non-arab and non-iranians, but the Iranians are a different ethnic group, the Persians. And the Arabs and Persians don't like each other. So Saddam started a war with Iran, the idea being to show how awesome he was, because Iran had pissed off the US and the USSR (and china, at the time, was global non-entity except for things related to china)

In proof that Arabs are just a different flavor of Jew, Saudi Arabia - who had a long dislike of Iran. Long, long dislike. The House of Saud has issues with the Persians predating the crusades, but we'll stay on topic. - loans Iraq the money to fund the war. So does Kuwait, Oman and the UAE, though not at much.

The US, while not liking Iran, doesn't want the power balance in the region to shift that rapidly. There is also concerns that Iraq will do genocide games if they take over large areas, which would prompt direct US involvement. So the US sells weapons to both sides, and allows the Russians to do the same. This goes on for a while until its pretty clear to everyone involved that both sides are evenly matched and will keep slaughtering each other over the same 3 miles of terrain forever if they aren't stopped.

Saudi Arabia, again showing just how much they've learned from their jewish cousins, then pretty much reveals their plan the whole time was to fuck over both Iran and Iraq, because Iraq was threatening Saudi Arabia's dominance in the Arab World. Saudi Arabia stops givng new loans, and calls in their existing ones, along with all the other Arab countries; Iraq is now turbo fucked financially, the repayment learns cripple the Iraqi economy.

This eventually leads us to the 1st Gulf War, where Iraq realizes that you don't have to pay back loans if you just take over the country you owe money too.

tl;dr Glass the middle east, kill everyone or it will never stop.

Wasn't it Saudi Arabia that offered Saddam, (or at least tried to,) to the United States? Or was it Iran itself? Of course, it didn't matter, because the Clinton-Gore Administrations refused saying something along, "We have no case against Saddam, thus no need to have him." Which eventually lead to the Twin Towers being destroyed and the US going to war against Iraq and Afghanistan. Which in reality is just a continuation of the Gulf War, since that never "officially" ended.
 
Wasn't it Saudi Arabia that offered Saddam, (or at least tried to,) to the United States? Or was it Iran itself? Of course, it didn't matter, because the Clinton-Gore Administrations refused saying something along, "We have no case against Saddam, thus no need to have him." Which eventually lead to the Twin Towers being destroyed and the US going to war against Iraq and Afghanistan. Which in reality is just a continuation of the Gulf War, since that never "officially" ended.

It was probably both at one time or another.

Saddam wasn't to blame for the twin towers. From a "cranking out terrorists" stand point, Saddam's overthrow was terrible. Saddam was a minority Sunni in a country with a large Shia majority. The last thing that nigga wanted was his population learning how to wage asymmetric war. He was too focused on internal issues (with a little bit of trying to figure out how to murder all the jews to get Arab-senpai to like him again) to state sponsor terrorism. And he still had dreams of getting back on top.

Like imagine if the Allies had deployed against Hitler when he invaded Poland (this also requires you pretend the USSR didn't also invade, but stay with me). After kicking him out of Poland, the US basically decided they didn't want to overthrow him and unbalance Central Europ, so they just isolated him economically and ignored him until he tried to use helicopters to gas the Jews, then declared no-fly zones, and then pretty much just ignored him completely after that.

He'd know, KNOW! that if he could get the international community to just look the other way for 2 seconds, he could take over continental Europe. So best to bide your time, keep your iron grip on power, and keep trying to get your crushing sanctions lifted.

Removing Saddam was a mistake for everyone except for Iraq's Shias & Kurds.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
Wasn't it Saudi Arabia that offered Saddam, (or at least tried to,) to the United States? Or was it Iran itself? Of course, it didn't matter, because the Clinton-Gore Administrations refused saying something along, "We have no case against Saddam, thus no need to have him." Which eventually lead to the Twin Towers being destroyed and the US going to war against Iraq and Afghanistan. Which in reality is just a continuation of the Gulf War, since that never "officially" ended.
No. The twin towers had to do with rich boy Osama Bin Laden LARP'ing as an Islamic Revolutionary and thinking he could start a big holy war between the West and the Islamic (Sunni) World by getting the US to invade. His plans fell through the roof when most of all the actual Arab states with actual statehood just lol'ed and kept supplying the West with oil in exchange for those sweet, sweet infidel bucks.

I might be way off the mark with this one, but I think Iraq II had to do with GlowBoi culpability about Saddam's spicy gas rockets he used on Persians and Kurds, wanted use on the Jews and would have used on the Turkmen and Assyrians if they stepped out of line which he got from US, Russian and French Glowbois during the Iran-Iraq War. Thats where the "international intelligence consensus" that Saddam had WMD's came from.
Somehow thanks to shitty US politics WMD's got translated to "Nukalur" (when nukes are only one branch of the CBRN "WMD" tree), so NeoCons and pre-2004 pro-War Libs used to rile up the population I guess. Why we invaded? IDK really... Politicians are exception individuals I guess.

Even dumber was the fact that much of Saddam's old spicy gas rockets were left in bunkers so in like 2013 it caused a freak-out when the Syrian Moderate good bois who dindu nuffin invaded Iraq and might have captured some of the WMD's Iraq didn't have.
 
Somehow thanks to shitty US politics WMD's got translated to "Nukalur" (when nukes are only one branch of the CBRN "WMD" tree), so NeoCons and pre-2004 pro-War Libs used to rile up the population I guess. Why we invaded? IDK really... Politicians are exception individuals I guess.

Even dumber was the fact that much of Saddam's old spicy gas rockets were left in bunkers so in like 2013 it caused a freak-out when the Syrian Moderate good bois who dindu nuffin invaded Iraq and might have captured some of the WMD's Iraq didn't have.

Iraq II:The Quickening was more about creating an Islamic distraction. "Why go through all the trouble to attack the US when instead you can blow up infidels closer to home?". In longer term strategic sense, it freed up Iraq's oil, which added a 3rd player to the Saudi/Iran oil duopoly, which was important since the hijackers were nearly all Saudi Wahhabists.

To tl;dr this, the House of Saud has been beholden to Wahhabism ever since they rose to power. Wahhabi got protection, Saud got fanantical zealot soldiers to murder all their enemies. They've been doing this for almost 1000 years, and for almost the entirety of those 1000 years who ever has been the Saudi King has really wished the Wahhibis would stop being such fucking assholes, but they can't break alliance with them.

Ever since Saudi Arabia's founding, the Wahhabists and the Saudis have existed in this weird antagonistic symbiotic mutualism relationship, and there was a real fear it was about to break down, or possibly Iran might cause it break down, which would disrupt the oi supply and leave Iran and Russia as worlds major oil suppliers, with Arab Hitler being the the only alternative to funding enemies.

Of course about 15 years later they discover the oil fields under North Dakota rendering the whole thing pointless, except for giving the jihadis a non-US place to go Jihad.
 
Saddam wanted to be Arab Jesus. He was shaping up to be a "sure you have no civil rights, but now we have trains AND they run on time" authoritarian leader just like daddy. Then around the late 70's he got it in his head that he could create and lead a pan-Arab axis. And this where everything went wrong.

Now, this will seem funny and ironic to non-arab and non-iranians, but the Iranians are a different ethnic group, the Persians. And the Arabs and Persians don't like each other. So Saddam started a war with Iran, the idea being to show how awesome he was, because Iran had pissed off the US and the USSR (and china, at the time, was global non-entity except for things related to china)

In proof that Arabs are just a different flavor of Jew, Saudi Arabia - who had a long dislike of Iran. Long, long dislike. The House of Saud has issues with the Persians predating the crusades, but we'll stay on topic. - loans Iraq the money to fund the war. So does Kuwait, Oman and the UAE, though not at much.

The US, while not liking Iran, doesn't want the power balance in the region to shift that rapidly. There is also concerns that Iraq will do genocide games if they take over large areas, which would prompt direct US involvement. So the US sells weapons to both sides, and allows the Russians to do the same. This goes on for a while until its pretty clear to everyone involved that both sides are evenly matched and will keep slaughtering each other over the same 3 miles of terrain forever if they aren't stopped.

Saudi Arabia, again showing just how much they've learned from their jewish cousins, then pretty much reveals their plan the whole time was to fuck over both Iran and Iraq, because Iraq was threatening Saudi Arabia's dominance in the Arab World. Saudi Arabia stops givng new loans, and calls in their existing ones, along with all the other Arab countries; Iraq is now turbo fucked financially, the repayment learns cripple the Iraqi economy.

This eventually leads us to the 1st Gulf War, where Iraq realizes that you don't have to pay back loans if you just take over the country you owe money too.

tl;dr Glass the middle east, kill everyone or it will never stop.
The biggest flaw with all mid-east policy from every nation is that they work on the false assumption that there do exist factions in the mid-east that don't want to see everyone but themselves destroyed imo.
 
The biggest flaw with all mid-east policy from every nation is that they work on the false assumption that there do exist factions in the mid-east that don't want to see everyone but themselves destroyed imo.

Hey whoa, that's wrong, backward, bigoted and racist.

There are PLENTY of factions in the middle east that simply want everyone but themselves enslaved as chattel with zero rights, and only those who resist enslavement destroyed.
 
New favorite hot take: The Middle East was doing just fine until Trump came along. (AKA Sunk Cost Fallacy, the article)

Orange Man Bad.png

Press X to doubt. Amusingly, the allusion to "at least" tacitly admits that the deal was a disaster for the US, but "at least" it did something.
Orange Man Worse.png

Orange Man Literally Hitler.png

So now the "US-backed" Iraqi army is equivalent to the actual Armed Forces of the USA. I'd be insulted if I wasn't laughing too hard to feel any other emotion.
 
Didn't Iran hated the Russian when they were invading Iraq? I mean, I know that Iraq wanted our help in repelling the Russian invaders, only to kick us to the curb when it was over. Then Iraq invaded Kuwait and started the Gulf War, so they became our enemies then, only we left without them surrendering. My point is, the Middle East hates America, but when some other "big bad country" tries to take over, they want our help.
They used to call the USSR the "Lesser Satan."
 
Solidarity? They realize that those two countries hate each other's guts, right? I know they're both brown but that doesn't mean they're on the same team.

Traditionally that's true, but at the moment what's happened is that Iran has abused Iraq's attempts at democracy to buy the politicians. Iraq is currently only its own country in technicality and because the actual citizens aren't on board with being part of Iran, but Iranians effectively control the place via said bought politicians and the gangs of operatives they've sent that likely make up 99% of the "pro-Iranian activist groups" or whatever the news is calling them. See @SBG 's post about the Iraqi MPs being informed they were going to vote to condemn Salami's killing/eject US troops and threatened if they didn't... Iran currently owns Iraq roughly to the same extent that the cartels own Mexico.
 
Sounds like ‪the non binding resolution the Iraqi parliament did didn’t even have enough ministers present to do an official vote.
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Oh no, Br'er Iraq, please don't throw me into the briar patch complete troop withdraw. It would be absolutely horrible for us if you guys were left to prop yourselves up and manage your own security. It fo' sure won't result in some fucking hilarious groveling when you get your shit pushed in again by ISIS, the kurds, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria....
 
No. The twin towers had to do with rich boy Osama Bin Laden LARP'ing as an Islamic Revolutionary and thinking he could start a big holy war between the West and the Islamic (Sunni) World by getting the US to invade. His plans fell through the roof when most of all the actual Arab states with actual statehood just lol'ed and kept supplying the West with oil in exchange for those sweet, sweet infidel bucks.

I might be way off the mark with this one, but I think Iraq II had to do with GlowBoi culpability about Saddam's spicy gas rockets he used on Persians and Kurds, wanted use on the Jews and would have used on the Turkmen and Assyrians if they stepped out of line which he got from US, Russian and French Glowbois during the Iran-Iraq War. Thats where the "international intelligence consensus" that Saddam had WMD's came from.
Somehow thanks to shitty US politics WMD's got translated to "Nukalur" (when nukes are only one branch of the CBRN "WMD" tree), so NeoCons and pre-2004 pro-War Libs used to rile up the population I guess. Why we invaded? IDK really... Politicians are exception individuals I guess.

Even dumber was the fact that much of Saddam's old spicy gas rockets were left in bunkers so in like 2013 it caused a freak-out when the Syrian Moderate good bois who dindu nuffin invaded Iraq and might have captured some of the WMD's Iraq didn't have.

But wasn't Osama Bin Laden working under Saddam? At least that's what I remember. But if he wasn't then why was Saddam killed? Cause I thought he was killed due to being linked to the 9/11 Terrorist Attack? If not, then my knowledge from when I was 12 really sucks.
 
But wasn't Osama Bin Laden working under Saddam? At least that's what I remember. But if he wasn't then why was Saddam killed? Cause I thought he was killed due to being linked to the 9/11 Terrorist Attack? If not, then my knowledge from when I was 12 really sucks.

Saddam badly misplayed his hand. IIRC there was some evidence Iraq allowed a couple of the hijackers to transit through Iraq. Post 9/11 Saddam voiced support for the attack against America and did some threat-posturing about his chemical weapons, trying to talk tough about arming more terrorists and his chemical weapon stores, and not appreciating how incredibly poorly that was going to go for him. There was some attempts at switching tack, but i don't think he believed it was going to happen until there were boots on the ground.

Additionally, Saddam at the time had not aged particularly gracefully. He'd lost a lot of his cunning edge and had just because a hedonistic, sadistic warlord but liked to pretend and present like he still had it.
 
It's actually kinda stunning.

Trump's Iranian assassination and escalation should be a disaster but the Dems are fucking it up by trying to be Pro-Iran. People want domestic issues addressed... and yet they can't see that.
 
But wasn't Osama Bin Laden working under Saddam? At least that's what I remember. But if he wasn't then why was Saddam killed? Cause I thought he was killed due to being linked to the 9/11 Terrorist Attack? If not, then my knowledge from when I was 12 really sucks.
There’s lots of theories, speculation and rumors that have come to light over the years. Unfortunately you can’t trust them because they originate with journalists and politicians who simply lie as their way of life. They range from W was hell bent on getting Saddam to it was a matter of faulty intelligence.

This is my favorite one, Saddam once tried to kill senior Bush in a failed assassination attempt, prompting Clinton to unleash a few missiles. A few years later 9-11 happens and junior Bush sees this as his opportunity to get revenge and starts the wheels in motion. He purportedly said something like “I want that fuckers head” during a cabinet meeting once.

Pretty unbelievable but hardly impossible.
 
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