War US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish allies - White House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan

US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, dumping Kurdish allies White House reveals policy shift, which follows conversation between Trump and Erdoğan www.theguardian.com Julian Borger - October 7, 2019 The White House has given the green light to a Turkish offensive into northern Syria, moving US forces out of the area in an abrupt foreign policy change that will in effect abandon Washington’s longtime allies, the Kurds. Kurdish forces have spearheaded the campaign against Islamic State in the region, but the policy swerve, after a phone conversation between Donald Trump and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Sunday, means Turkey would take custody of captured Isis fighters, the White House said. It has also raised fears of fresh fighting between Turkey and Kurdish forces in Syria’s complex war now the US no longer acts as a buffer between the two sides. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said on Monday morning that their US partners had already begun withdrawing troops from areas along Turkey’s border. Footage aired on Kurdish news agency Hawar purportedly showed US armoured vehicles leaving positions near the towns of Ras al-Ayn and Tal Abyad in the border region. The SDF spokesman, Mustafa Bali, accused the US of leaving the area to “turn into a war zone”, adding that the SDF would “defend north-east Syria at all costs”. A statement from the Turkish foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, also early on Monday said that Ankara had “supported the territorial integrity of Syria since the beginning of the crisis and will continue to do so … [We are] determined to ensure survivability and security of Turkey by clearing the region from terrorists. We will contribute to bringing safety, peace and stability to Syria.” The decision represents the latest in a series of erratic moves by Trump, fighting impeachment at home, apparently taken without consultation with, or knowledge of, US diplomats dealing with Syria. Ruben Gallego, an Iraq war veteran and Democratic congressman from Arizona, tweeted: “Allowing Turkey to move into northern Syria is one of the most destabilising moves we can do in the Middle East. The Kurds will never trust America again. They will look for new alliances or independence to protect themselves.” In August, the US and Turkey came to an agreement to create a “safe zone” in northern Syria, by which the US-backed Kurdish-led SDF would pull back from the border. Ankara sees the SDF as indistinguishable from Kurdish insurgents inside Turkey and views it as a serious security threat. The safe zone deal was due to forestall a Turkish military offensive. In the White House statement issued just before 11 pm on Sunday, however, that agreement was not mentioned. “Today, President Donald J Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan of Turkey by telephone,” the surprise statement said. “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the Isis territorial ‘caliphate’, will no longer be in the immediate area.” The statement suggested that in return for US acquiescence in a Turkish offensive, Erdoğan had assured Trump that Turkey would take over the detention of Isis militants captured by the SDF, on the battlefield. The custody of Europeans and other foreign fighters has long been one of Trump’s preoccupations, and he has lambasted European governments for not taking responsibility for their own nationals in Isis ranks. “The US government has pressed France, Germany, and other European nations, from which many captured Isis fighters came, to take them back, but they did not want them and refused,” the White House statement continued. “The US will not hold them for what could be many years and great cost to the United States taxpayer. Turkey will now be responsible for all Isis fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial caliphate by the United States.” Syria experts warned that the US abandonment of the SDF would lead to another, new front in the eight-year Syrian conflict, and could push the Kurds into seeking an arrangement with the Assad regime in Damascus. Two weeks ago, at the UN general assembly, the US special envoy for the global coalition to defeat Isis, James Jeffrey, stressed that the US had an agreement with Turkey on a safe zone, in recognition of Ankara’s security concerns, that obviated the need for an Turkish incursion. “We listen to the Turks’ concerns. We try to respond to them when we can,” Jeffrey said. “And we have made it clear to Turkey at every level that any unilateral operation is not going to lead to an improvement in anyone’s security – not Turkey’s, not the people in the north-east, not the people around the world who feel threatened by Daesh [Isis], which is the basic purpose for our US military being in the north-east in the first place.” Another outcome of the Trump-Erdoğan call is that the Turkish leader is expected to visit the White House next month.

 

[Trash Eater]

Whereas fighting and dying to give the Kurds a landlocked homeland carved out of 4 sovereign nations that do not wish to be carved up.

Oy vey, when you put it that way it almost sounds like a certain Greatest Ally of ours.

 

[Shining Nova]

Ah! Here is the important piece of the equation you miss. It doesn't matter if the Saudi's are totally corrupt assholes. Protecting the flow of energy resources through the Persian Gulf is in the US National Interests. As is restraining Iran's expansionist Hegemonic Goals.

Whereas fighting and dying to give the Kurds a landlocked homeland carved out of 4 sovereign nations that do not wish to be carved up. At least 2 of which are our allies on paper at least, Is not something that is in the US National Interests and quite frankly never will be.

Trump just said he is doing it for money. Saudia Arabia and Iran also have very bad blood between them too.

Trump said he has 'no financial interests in Saudi Arabia.' But his businesses have made millions from the Saudi government, and the crown prince gave his New York City hotel a huge boost.

President Trump claimed to have "no financial interests in Saudi Arabia," but the Trump Organization has made millions from the Saudi government.

www.businessinsider.com

Trump has an incentive to help the Saudis.

Trump did it all for money.

 

[Kane Lives]

Trump just said he is doing it for money. Saudia Arabia and Iran also have very bad blood between them too.

Trump said he has 'no financial interests in Saudi Arabia.' But his businesses have made millions from the Saudi government, and the crown prince gave his New York City hotel a huge boost.

President Trump claimed to have "no financial interests in Saudi Arabia," but the Trump Organization has made millions from the Saudi government.

www.businessinsider.com

Trump has an incentive to help the Saudis.

Trump did it all for money.

So Drumpf did it for the pithy millions he might get and not because Saudi Arabia is the largest producer of oil in the world and has spent like billions on lobbying the US and buying US-made arms?

Okay then.

 

[Shining Nova]

So Drumpf did it for the pithy millions he might get and not because Saudi Arabia is the largest producer of oil in the world and has spent like billions on lobbying the US and buying US-made arms?

Okay then.

Trump said when questioned on why he is deploying Troops to Saudi Arabia he said "The Saudis pay well" he is motivated by money. He sold out the Kurds for money.

 

[Stoneheart]

Protecting the flow of energy resources through the Persian Gulf is in the US National Interests. As is restraining Iran's expansionist Hegemonic Goals.

Did you ever Google where that oil is going? Its not to the US.
And Iran taking over iraq is in the interest of the US. all those Sunni Terrorists attacking the West would go to iraq, the only think Muslims hate more than freedom and liberty are other Muslims.

Whereas fighting and dying to give the Kurds a landlocked homeland carved out of 4 sovereign nations that do not wish to be carved up. At least 2 of which are our allies on paper at least, Is not something that is in the US National Interests and quite frankly never will be.

Balkanisation of the Middle East and a dirty 5 way war wouldnt be to bad for anybody.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Balkanisation of the Middle East and a dirty 5 way war wouldnt be to bad for anybody.

Agreed! But it doesn't require our active participation. Better to just get the fuck out, and sell the locals all the weapons they want.

 

[Stoneheart]

Agreed! But it doesn't require our active participation. Better to just get the fuck out, and sell the locals all the weapons they want.

well a blockade of the sea of Marmara would be a good use of assets. Starve out the Turkish forces on Cyprus and make sure Israel and Greece can exploit all those gas fields around Cyprus.

 

[Unog]

Trump said when questioned on why he is deploying Troops to Saudi Arabia he said "The Saudis pay well" he is motivated by money. He sold out the Kurds for money.

I don't give a fuck why he did it. It was the correct call. Sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. (Mind you I'm even conceding that what he meant by "The Saudis pay well" he meant himself not, you know, the oil)

You keep insistently ignoring that the people he "sold them out" to are our allies and have been for longer. You also keep insistently ignoring the point that it's not our war or our problem.

 

[Shining Nova]

I don't give a fuck why he did it. It was the correct call. Sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. (Mind you I'm even conceding that what he meant by "The Saudis pay well" he meant himself not, you know, the oil)

You keep insistently ignoring that the people he "sold them out" to are our allies and have been for longer. You also keep insistently ignoring the point that it's not our war or our problem.

It is our war, the Kurds died on our behalf fighting ISIS in Syria they lost thousands we didn't take any casualties.

You may not care but the rest of the world does. Trump turned our military into a mercenary force. He said he is putting an end to endless wars, yet he deployed twice the number of troops to Saudi Arabia and Iran is constantly threatening war. He took us out of one hot bed and put us into another. He lied about getting out of the Middle East.

 

[Unog]

It is our war, the Kurds died on our behalf fighting ISIS in Syria they lost thousands we didn't take any casualties.

That's nice. You're apparently unaware of just how many times in the past forty years we've pumped and dumped rebels such as the Kurds. Apparently you've bought the bullshit agit prop hook, line, and sinker. They were a means to an end, like every single time the U.S. has done it before.

Spoiler: Rest of response

You may not care but the rest of the world does.

Nobody cares. Nobody should care. The U.S. is enough of an economic and military powerhouse that we effectively don't need allies, and truth be told it's amazing that you're acting like we're some po-dunk shitkicker 2nd world country or some shit. It's exceptional and I can't believe that you or anyone else would believe that anyone is so stupid they'd buy this shit.

---

Also I don't give a fuck how many non-american, non-english speaking people die in a third world shithole across the planet because I'm american. What part of "not mine and America's problem" did you not get?

He said he is putting an end to endless wars, yet he deployed twice the number of troops to Saudi Arabia and Iran is constantly threatening war. He took us out of one hot bed and put us into another. He lied about getting out of the Middle East.

What part of "stable" and "not having the 2010's version of the Balkans crisis within their borders" don't you understand?
I don't like the Saudis at all and would like it if we told them to fuck off too tbh but there is a hell of a difference between deploying troops to sit around looking impressive in a a country without conflict within it's borders and sending troops to prop up an ethnostate of a universally despised minority in a country undergoing the worst war of our century.
Look I'm really sorry reality doesn't line up with your childish notions of Heroic and Honorable America vs. Evil Freedom Haters but it's time to grow up and quit living in a fantasy world.
How about you try educating yourself about the situation in the middle east instead of crying about the poor little Kurds and our "alliances".

Y'know, since you keep repeating yourself I figured I'd do a bit of it myself. Yet again you ignored that the people who we're supposedly "selling them out" to are our ally as well. A NATO ally.

 

[Shining Nova]

That's nice. You're apparently unaware of just how many times in the past forty years we've pumped and dumped rebels such as the Kurds. Apparently you've bought the bullshit agit prop hook, line, and sinker.


Y'know, since you keep repeating yourself I figured I'd do a bit of it myself.

Things have changed throughout those forty years, Are we still going to use that to justify not doing anything. Your reasoning is flawed.

 

[soft kitty]

As someone who knows less than nothing about international politics, my completely uninformed and moronic opinion is this: literally who gives a shit? I care about solving our problems HERE, like our massive cultural issues like over-regulation, detrimental social welfare programs, our failing public education system, and the breakdown of the family unit. America has way way wayyyyyyy too many problems of it's own to worry about what conflicts are going on in the middle east.

 

[Unog]

Things have changed throughout those forty years, Are we still going to use that to justify not doing anything. Your reasoning is flawed.

I think this part stuns me the most.
We are still in Afghanistan almost 20 years after 9/11.
These are the mistakes of the fucking present.
And yet he still weeps about the fate of some nobodies in some sandy hellhole half a world away.
Like what kind of person looks at the trillions of wasted dollars, the tens of thousands of dead or maimed physically or mentally and the utter destruction of our rights and says "lets try this again"?

Again with this shit. You keep insisting that "it'll be different this time guys!". Spoiler alert, it isn't and it won't.

Also if you're so worried about "doing something" how about you enlist? Don't the Kurds accept volunteers?

As someone who knows less than nothing about international politics, my completely uninformed and moronic opinion is this: literally who gives a shit? I care about solving our problems HERE, like our massive cultural issues like over-regulation, detrimental social welfare programs, our failing public education system, and the breakdown of the family unit. America has way way wayyyyyyy too many problems of it's own to worry about what conflicts are going on in the middle east.

B-b-but we need to spend more lives, money, and time over there in the Middle East or else some poor ethnonationalist communist brown people won't get their ethnostate! We already even made them a big-boy pinkie swear on our Scout's honor that we'd help!

 

[Sīn the Moon Daddy]

As someone who knows less than nothing about international politics, my completely uninformed and moronic opinion is this: literally who gives a shit? I care about solving our problems HERE, like our massive cultural issues like over-regulation, detrimental social welfare programs, our failing public education system, and the breakdown of the family unit. America has way way wayyyyyyy too many problems of it's own to worry about what conflicts are going on in the middle east.

I think the Kurds were great allies 10 years ago when we needed them. 5 years ago they were great. I don't know if we really need them anymore and I recommend that they run the fuck away.

 

[Shining Nova]

Again with this shit. You keep insisting that "it'll be different this time guys!". Spoiler alert, it isn't and it won't.

It has been, the US and the Kurds helped weaken ISIS in five years of fighting in Syria without a US solider dying. It has been successful for the US.

 

[Unog]

It has been successful for the US.

Exactly. So it's time to pull out now that they're no longer of use, and have a NATO ally bearing down on them. Mission accomplished.

 

[It's HK-47]

As someone who knows less than nothing about international politics, my completely uninformed and moronic opinion is this: literally who gives a shit? I care about solving our problems HERE, like our massive cultural issues like over-regulation, detrimental social welfare programs, our failing public education system, and the breakdown of the family unit. America has way way wayyyyyyy too many problems of it's own to worry about what conflicts are going on in the middle east.

Because over the last week we've learned that entire swathes of the American public and the media in general are perfectly willing to keep us permanently entrenched in the Middle East because Orange Man Bad. He's literally turned them all into War Hawks in the blink of an eye purely to spite him. Watching all of these people who have been staunchly defending pulling our troops out of Syria immediately whip around and demand that Trump send them all back still has my head spinning.

I can't even fathom how they're going to handle this when it comes to the general election. "Vote for me so I can raise your taxes, take your guns, fling open the borders, and send your sons and daughters back overseas so they can die in the desert!" I'm really not convinced that's going to be a winning message, but okay.

I thought their entire plan was to beat Donald Trump in the election, not advocate for doing literally everything that's unpopular.

 

[BR55]

Again with this shit. You keep insisting that "it'll be different this time guys!". Spoiler alert, it isn't and it won't.

Also if you're so worried about "doing something" how about you enlist? Don't the Kurds accept volunteers?



B-b-but we need to spend more lives, money, and time over there in the Middle East or else some poor ethnonationalist communist brown people won't get their ethnostate!

When I called Nova a gambling addict I was so on the money it's not even funny.
"I know the past half century of interventions has been resulted in fuck up after fuck up but it'll be different this time!" is literally the logic of a gambling addict.
Admitting to consistent failure but insisting that eventually it'll all work out as long we keep trying. Sunk Cost Fallacy is a bitch.
It's almost as annoying as his insistence that we "owe" the Kurd's and that America should stand against the entire middle east and spend lives, money and time, better used to fix our myriad domestic crises, to give their worthless asses their precious ethnostate.
NeoCons and reality/sanity aren't on speaking terms apparently.

 

[Shining Nova]

Exactly. So it's time to pull out now that they're no longer of use, and have a NATO ally bearing down on them. Mission accomplished.

No it hasn't there was a report of an ISIS jail break, ISIS is trying to regroup.

Trump says he doesn't want any ISIS prisoners to escape during Turkey's offensive, but a new video is said to show just that

The Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have shared video claiming to show ISIS prisoners escaping during Turkish attacks.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Unog]

No it hasn't there was a report of an ISIS jail break, ISIS is trying to regroup.

Trump says he doesn't want any ISIS prisoners to escape during Turkey's offensive, but a new video is said to show just that

The Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have shared video claiming to show ISIS prisoners escaping during Turkish attacks.

www.businessinsider.com

Oh wow oh geeze oh man time to start firing on a NATO ally to protect a no-name group of retards who we used as geopolitical pawns.

Oh wait I couldn't give less of a shit. I don't want any more american lives and tax dollars wasted on this stupid as fuck incursion that started because of people like you justifying going into the region decades ago to begin with, that as far as I'm aware we still don't have a declaration of war to even be allowed to have.

Like I said if you're so concerned how about you fly over there and volunteer?