🌟 Internet Famous Jared Knabenbauer / ProJared / SinJared, Heidi O'Ferrall / AtelierHeidi & Holly Conrad / CommanderHolly - Divorce Fiasco, trashfire extraordinaire

[TerribleIdeas™]

I'll be damned if this isn't one of the most terrifying crossovers ever imagined,

 

[LiquidKid]

Jared would probably argue for, at the very least, a reduction in any alimony payments because, thanks to the whole fiasco, his income potential is essentially gone. Don't know if that would work.

Well. He would have to supply his earnings for May and whatever months leading up to the divorce. I’m sure he’s still making something off of his old content, especially with a spike in viewership from people figuring out who the fuck he is and/or mining more more exploitable clips. Perhaps that’s why he waited so long to file

 

[KrewlKween]

Alimony is a bitch

Why though? If one partner makes more then the other and then chooses to divorce, why should their expartner now have to live a shithole life while they continue living as they always have? Marriage is a partnership. If you don't want to pay alimony pick a partner that isn't a lazy sack of shit looking for a meal ticket or don't get married. Heidi stated that Jared wanted her to rely on him which is why she continued cosplaying and not earning. She didn't have to and he didn't want her to. It was an arranement that worked for them at the time. Then Jared took his ball and went home. I don't think she should have to live in the poor house because of it. Besides, they were only married 5 years and by Washington law she'll likely only get 1.5 years of alimony. It's not as bad as most dudes make it sound.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

If Heidi really has no actual income, you’d better believe that a judge would slap Jared with alimony payments. And depending on how far this goes, one of them may be forced to take anger management classes(looking at Heidi here as her social media chimpout may concern the judge).
The toys and games have resale value, so they would likely be considered to be a commodity in the same caliber as a couple’s holiday spode. Either way, I see Jared losing a lot of his rare games in this ordeal unless Heidi spares him.
Do we know if a prenup was signed?

Heidi sells dumb crafty items on Etsy that obviously dont make anything beyond pin money. She travels to cons dressing up, but even if she’s getting sponsored for her trips that’s not regular income, just comped vacations to play dress up and post photos. I just don’t see she evidence that she makes any kind of real income that would allow her to support herself.

Her job was to be a sexy gamer girl for Jared, and that’s never a long term career option.

Jared worked in a video game store when they got married and was dumb enough to do everything he's done so far.

No way he signed a prenup.

I doubt there was any reason for a pre-nup when they got together. I mean they were going to pay a few thousands to a lawyer to draw up a pre-nup to preserve assets worth a few hundred? Nah.

I think we may well be overestimating how much money there is to be had too.

I think Jared has been flush with cash for a few years but he’s not wealthy. They were renting a house, probably because a bank would rightly view his income as unstable. So while they could afford to rent nice homes, buying an expensive home was probably not an option. (They could have probably bought a less expensive one) Their behavior does not point to people who would wisely use a big cash influx wisely, but merely spending it to live big.

The reason I said Heidi’s recent behavior was stupid to her own greedy interests was because a divorce will look at Jared’s current income. His YT channel has crashed and I’m assuming he’s lots sponsorships and other income generating gigs. Men sometimes quit high paying jobs and take shitty ones just to prevent exes from getting any alimony or high child support payments since it’s based on current income. So Jared being able to show a big drop in income will benefit him in a divorce settlement.

But times have changed. While alimony is still a thing it tends to be for wives who gave up a career, or potential career, to stay at home and care for children. A perfectly healthy young woman that had no career before a short marriage and had no children during the marriage rarely gets a lavish alimony settlement unless the husband is ridiculously rich.

Jared isn’t ridiculously rich. Child support is what tends to be the expensive part of a divorce nowadays for whoever doesn’t have primary custody. I rarely hear men complaining about alimony payments anymore, but lots of bitching about child support payments.

So unless Jared is a multi-millionaire sitting on piles of money I don’t think Heidi is going to get some lavish alimony settlement. The most she will get is probably will be from the division of assets acquired during the marriage. Lol if they spent most their money on toys, travel, costumes and games but it’s exactly what she deserves if so.

 

[CheezzyMach]

I love how this thread keeps ping ponging over whether Jared or Heidi is the shittier person.

Can't we just agree they're both exceptional scummy dumbfucks?

 

[Tanner Glass]

Why though? If one partner makes more then the other and then chooses to divorce, why should their expartner now have to live a shithole life while they continue living as they always have? Marriage is a partnership. If you don't want to pay alimony pick a partner that isn't a lazy sack of shit looking for a meal ticket or don't get married. Heidi stated that Jared wanted her to rely on him which is why she continued cosplaying and not earning. She didn't have to and he didn't want her to. It was an arranement that worked for them at the time. Then Jared took his ball and went home. I don't think she should have to live in the poor house because of it. Besides, they were only married 5 years and by Washington law she'll likely only get 1.5 years of alimony. It's not as bad as most dudes make it sound.

Because even though they had an arrangement that worked (Jared being the breadwinner) the divorce should meant that arrangement is over because she is no longer his wife. Despite the arrangement ending she is still an adult woman who can likely provide for her self and should do so, instead of being legally coddled. If they were partners in any other situation (business partners, for example) they would actually be treated like equals instead of it turning into "she's a woman what is she supposed to do???".

It bothers a lot of people because it's an example of fourth-wave feminism, where women should be treated like equals except in situations where they have an advantage then never mind.

I think we may well be overestimating how much money there is to be had too.

I think Jared has been flush with cash for a few years but he’s not wealthy. They were renting a house, probably because a bank would rightly view his income as unstable. So while they could afford to rent nice homes, buying an expensive home was probably not an option. (They could have probably bought a less expensive one) Their behavior does not point to people who would wisely use a big cash influx wisely, but merely spending it to live big.

The reason I said Heidi’s recent behavior was stupid to her own greedy interests was because a divorce will look at Jared’s current income. His YT channel has crashed and I’m assuming he’s lots sponsorships and other income generating gigs. Men sometimes quit high paying jobs and take shitty ones just to prevent exes from getting any alimony or high child support payments since it’s based on current income. So Jared being able to show a big drop in income will benefit him in a divorce settlement.

But times have changed. While alimony is still a thing it tends to be for wives who gave up a career, or potential career, to stay at home and care for children. A perfectly healthy young woman that had no career before a short marriage and had no children during the marriage rarely gets a lavish alimony settlement unless the husband is ridiculously rich.

Jared isn’t ridiculously rich. Child support is what tends to be the expensive part of a divorce nowadays for whoever doesn’t have primary custody. I rarely hear men complaining about alimony payments anymore, but lots of bitching about child support payments.

So unless Jared is a multi-millionaire sitting on piles of money I don’t think Heidi is going to get some lavish alimony settlement. The most she will get is probably will be from the division of assets acquired during the marriage. Lol if they spent most their money on toys, travel, costumes and games but it’s exactly what she deserves if so.

Jared probably isn't flush with cash but they probably are doing "OK". Social blade seems to put Jared's channel at ~$120k/year. This isn't concrete but considering his wife wasn't making much money and considering his rent was likely $48k/year we can assume that he was pulling in at least $150,000 (or he lied his balls off on his rental application).

Heidi absolutely damaged Jared's earning potiental, though. His YT channel will still generate revenue but he lost nearly 20% of his subscribers and about three years worth of growth. He is also now toxic to brands/advertisers and his currently existing main one (Wizards of the Coast) seems to have been entirely destroyed. It's unclear how much he was making from WotC but sponsored content tends to pay very well and he was putting D&D stuff frequently in front of his (former) 1,000,000 subscribers. It's unlikely they'll keep that relationship going forward.

I love how this thread keeps ping ponging over whether Jared or Heidi is the shittier person.

Can't we just agree they're both exceptional scummy dumbfucks?

Jared, Heidi, and Holly are all terrible and in a poetic way all deserve each other. It's like lightning in a bottle.

 

[KrewlKween]

Because even though they had an arrangement that worked (Jared being the breadwinner) the divorce should meant that arrangement is over because she is no longer his wife. Despite the arrangement ending she is still an adult woman who can likely provide for her self and should do so, instead of being legally coddled. If they were partners in any other situation (business partners, for example) they would actually be treated like equals instead of it turning into "she's a woman what is she supposed to do???".

It bothers a lot of people because it's an example of fourth-wave feminism, where women should be treated like equals except in situations where they have an advantage then never mind.

But it's not a one way street. The higher earning partner is always responsible for the lower earning partner in cases where there's a wide income disparity. Why the higher earning partner in these large wage gap relationships is usually the man can be debated 7 ways til Sunday, but it is what it is. If a woman earns more then her husband and encourages him to stay home with the kids or pursue his side hobby that makes him happy, then she chooses some new chad dick and dumps his ass that's some shit. He loses years of earning potential because of her, he should be given a bit of parachute to rebuild his life. That's all alimony is. Building a life together is the goal of marriage, and even though the legal "contract" between them is broken in divorce, they should still help someone they used to support so they can hit the ground running.

 

[Tanner Glass]

But it's not a one way street. The higher earning partner is always responsible for the lower earning partner in cases where there's a wide income disparity. Why the higher earning partner in these large wage gap relationships is usually the man can be debated 7 ways til Sunday, but it is what it is. If a woman earns more then her husband and encourages him to stay home with the kids or pursue his side hobby that makes him happy, then she chooses some new chad dick and dumps his ass that's some shit. He loses years of earning potential because of her, he should be given a bit of parachute to rebuild his life. That's all alimony is. Building a life together is the goal of marriage, and even though the legal "contract" between them is broken in divorce, they should still help someone they used to support so they can hit the ground running.

While building a life together is the goal, it's a little unfair that one person is building it (the breadwinner) and one person is actually living it (the cosplay parasite). She could have hit the ground running years ago (and she suggests that the marriage was rocky for a while) but for literally no reason, didn't. Arguably, they didn't build a life together (no house, no kids, no equity outside of SNES/NES collectables) and both had attachments to other people.

I'm not suggesting this is always the case, but in this specific case Heidi could have absolutely started to build her own life and had nothing but ample time to do so. On top of that, it sounds like she was helped out with her new living space and a new car by Jared so outside of job placement I'm not sure what else he can do for her. Not only did she not build her own life she actually hurt it a little bit because this whole public falling out doesn't make her look good/attractive to brands either and considering that's the space she's trying to get into.

 

[Francis Dollarhyde]

But it's not a one way street. The higher earning partner is always responsible for the lower earning partner in cases where there's a wide income disparity. Why the higher earning partner in these large wage gap relationships is usually the man can be debated 7 ways til Sunday, but it is what it is. If a woman earns more then her husband and encourages him to stay home with the kids or pursue his side hobby that makes him happy, then she chooses some new chad dick and dumps his ass that's some shit. He loses years of earning potential because of her, he should be given a bit of parachute to rebuild his life. That's all alimony is. Building a life together is the goal of marriage, and even though the legal "contract" between them is broken in divorce, they should still help someone they used to support so they can hit the ground running.

I would like to see the averages of alimoney paid as % of income, divided by gender for the state he is in, or else US as a whole. If that can be found at all. Somehow I think men come away with alimoney payments not even half as good. (I do know for Belgium it was 15% for the 00's.)

 

[KrewlKween]

While building a life together is the goal, it's a little unfair that one person is building it (the breadwinner) and one person is actually living it (the cosplay parasite). She could have hit the ground running years ago (and she suggests that the marriage was rocky for a while) but for literally no reason, didn't. Arguably, they didn't build a life together (no house, no kids, no equity outside of SNES/NES collectables) and both had attachments to other people.

I'm not suggesting this is always the case, but in this specific case Heidi could have absolutely started to build her own life and had nothing but ample time to do so. On top of that, it sounds like she was helped out with her new living space and a new car by Jared so outside of job placement I'm not sure what else he can do for her. Not only did she not build her own life she actually hurt it a little bit because this whole public falling out doesn't make her look good/attractive to brands either and considering that's the space she's trying to get into.

You're correct that there was nothing stopping Heidi in the traditional sense. Meaning no kids to take care of and Jared wasn't in the military moving all the time or something. We don't really know what their arrangement was besides Heidi saying Jared encouraged her to not go build that separate life. Jared worked from home. Maybe he didn't want Heidi working outside the home because he wanted her there with him all day. Maybe he wanted her free to travel to cons with him at any moment. I know it probably would have been smarter for her to ignore Jared's request and have a "real job", but her husband asked her not to and she was trying to grow her youtube and cosplaying into being her "real job". If Jared didn't want to ultimately pay alimony one day maybe he shouldn't have encouraged her to rely on him and maybe pushed her to find actual employment. Even so, finding a career to match the earning potential of Jared's isn't exactly easy, there would still have been some disparity.

 

[Tanner Glass]

You're correct that there was nothing stopping Heidi in the traditional sense. Meaning no kids to take care of and Jared wasn't in the military moving all the time or something. We don't really know what their arrangement was besides Heidi saying Jared encouraged her to not go build that separate life. Jared worked from home. Maybe he didn't want Heidi working outside the home because he wanted her there with him all day. Maybe he wanted her free to travel to cons with him at any moment. I know it probably would have been smarter for her to ignore Jared's request and have a "real job", but her husband asked her not to and she was trying to grow her youtube and cosplaying into being her "real job". If Jared didn't want to ultimately pay alimony one day maybe he shouldn't have encouraged her to rely on him and maybe pushed her to find actual employment. Even so, finding a career to match the earning potential of Jared's isn't exactly easy, there would still have been some disparity.

We also don't know how true that is, though. Just because Heidi says that Jared didn't want her to get a real income it doesn't mean it's true. It could be as simple as "My dream job doesn't make much money" and him saying "It's fine because we're ok, follow your heart" as opposed to him wanting to dominate her financially. It could also be as simple as her making the entire thing up and that a bunch of their arguments were around money and how she wasn't making any.

It apparently wouldn't even be that hard as Holly is also a "cosplayer" who was able to make a career out of it to a point where she's able to support her self and however many fucking weird birds she has. They run in the same circles and have the same contacts so it's even less defensible.

 

[Staffy]

 

[KrewlKween]

It apparently wouldn't even be that hard as Holly is also a "cosplayer" who was able to make a career out of it to a point where she's able to support her self and however many fucking weird birds she has. They run in the same circles and have the same contacts so it's even less defensible.

Ehhh I doubt Holly was/is living the million dollar house lifestyle like Jared and Heidi were. Holly probably lives in a similar apartment to the one Heidi does now, or she's sharing rent on a house with friends. We've seen Heidi's new living situation and it's a downgrade. Holly I don't think shows much off besides the birds, which outside of the initial aviary cost, are pretty cheap to keep.

 

[Glad I couldn't help]

Regarding finances, I've always though that money have bigger role in the drama than anybody would admit. Yeah, he had the WotC show and Twitch channel, but to me it felt Mr. Knabenbauer's career was on the down slope even before this drama erupted. Others, like the Completionist and Jon "original Aryan" Jarfari have grown, while he has stagnated, but that could be just my perception.

More concretely, while everybody talking about assets, I'm wondering about debts. Living in Seattle ain't cheap and on top of that, there is money he used to buy the wife his cosplay stuff, along with his girlfriend and random social media whores. Now maybe he wisely husbanded his funds in all of these endeavors, but if he made wise life choices, we wouldn't be here, would we? Most likely he abused the plastic and racked thousands of dollars in credit card debt.

The net effect of all this was to futher stress Jared, Heidi and their relationship. While I think the main reasons their marriage failed was because of the poly shit, the cheating and Hurricane Holly, it wouldn't surprise me if Heidi looked at their finances are realize that Jared was financially a sinking ship and she need to get out.

Of course, we're never going to know the full story here (financial details are apparently sealed in divorce records, according to the source I posted in an earlier thread). Probably the best clues to look at Holly's Twitter and see how far they fall materially until she and Jared finally break up.

 

[Mango Unchained]

You boys doing the alimony math up there, very impressive. Crunch dem numbers and make a nice balance sheet, meanwhile I'll wait until Heidi brags about her new alimony income. It'll happen, her mouth is bigger than her cooch.

Meanwhile, I'll toss another S'more on the grill; Anyone else interested in a derivative investigation? Ross "marriage martyr" O'Donovan not included because he fried for their sins, but Jared's former colleague PBG could be the clown's successor. I heard he moved over 7 times and he was quick to defend Jared, albeit regretting it later. Or maybe Nulyu? Wouldn't mind a Loony Troon romp.

I'm not trying to refract from more Jared/Heidi/Holly analysis, but before this spirals into a bore it would be neat to fan the flames one last time with a different pair of bellows. Last time I mention this, I promise.

 

[babaGAReeb]

so it turns out all of them were horrible people?

whats next? will it turn out that ross is a piece of shit too

 

[NoNarcs]

We also don't know how true that is, though. Just because Heidi says that Jared didn't want her to get a real income it doesn't mean it's true. It could be as simple as "My dream job doesn't make much money" and him saying "It's fine because we're ok, follow your heart" as opposed to him wanting to dominate her financially. It could also be as simple as her making the entire thing up and that a bunch of their arguments were around money and how she wasn't making any.

Yeah, this sounds spot on. Cosplay isn't a career choice, it's a hobby where some people with scale, like Holly, can do the "influencer" career path, where they have to hustle to cobble together income from merch, commissions, adsense, Patreon, brand deals, productions, etc.

Before shit hit the fan and Jared dumped Heidi, she never claimed to be a professional cosplayer or to make any money at all. She answered a question about it in one of her YouTube videos: https://youtu.be/xsaZoWz5W1g?t=358

"I don't consider this [cosplay] a career, it's not making me any money.... cosplay in and of itself is not a viable way to make any money unless you are selling a product or selling prints of yourself. Other cosplayers get their revenue from Patreon and having supporters in that way."

She explains how and why she doesn't do any of that. To me, it 100% sounds like it was her choice. At the very least, she presents it as her idea, and something that makes her awesome - I don't charge you anything, fans!

"I don't have a Patreon because primarily, I want to keep all of my tutorials and videos and information and everything I'm putting out 100% free and accessible to everyone. The only thing I do that technically makes money is this YouTube channel, but it's so small that that's actually pretty negligible when it comes to my expenses."

She's super clear about who pays the bills and how #blessed she is: "The only way I am able to keep doing this is because I am married to a professional YouTuber who is able to pay the bills with his channel. I AM VERY LUCKY AND PRIVILEGED TO HAVE THE SUPPORT THAT I HAVE and to be able to keep doing this [e.g. cosplay and not get a job]."

Heidi set up a fully-funded Ko-fi for her "moving expenses" when this shit went down. I'm fully expecting her to continue ebegging for her rent when her share of Jared's money inevitably runs out. Her only other choice, since she's above work, is to find another target for her fiscal vampirism.

 

[Sable13]

Yeah, this sounds spot on. Cosplay isn't a career choice, it's a hobby where some people with scale, like Holly, can do the "influencer" career path, where they have to hustle to cobble together income from merch, commissions, adsense, Patreon, brand deals, productions, etc.

Before shit hit the fan and Jared dumped Heidi, she never claimed to be a professional cosplayer or to make any money at all. She answered a question about it in one of her YouTube videos: https://youtu.be/xsaZoWz5W1g?t=358

"I don't consider this [cosplay] a career, it's not making me any money.... cosplay in and of itself is not a viable way to make any money unless you are selling a product or selling prints of yourself. Other cosplayers get their revenue from Patreon and having supporters in that way."

She explains how and why she doesn't do any of that. To me, it 100% sounds like it was her choice. At the very least, she presents it as her idea, and something that makes her awesome - I don't charge you anything, fans!

"I don't have a Patreon because primarily, I want to keep all of my tutorials and videos and information and everything I'm putting out 100% free and accessible to everyone. The only thing I do that technically makes money is this YouTube channel, but it's so small that that's actually pretty negligible when it comes to my expenses."

She's super clear about who pays the bills and how #blessed she is: "The only way I am able to keep doing this is because I am married to a professional YouTuber who is able to pay the bills with his channel. I AM VERY LUCKY AND PRIVILEGED TO HAVE THE SUPPORT THAT I HAVE and to be able to keep doing this [e.g. cosplay and not get a job]."

Heidi set up a fully-funded Ko-fi for her "moving expenses" when this shit went down. I'm fully expecting her to continue ebegging for her rent when her share of Jared's money inevitably runs out. Her only other choice, since she's above work, is to find another target for her fiscal vampirism.

I absolutely agree with this. I think it's ridiculous she's using the "He had financial control over me *sob*" approach to all of this when it's obvious she didn't want to get an actual job. It would be completely different if she had a job and Jared demanded that she quit and stay home, but she didn't. For fuck's sake, she has a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in Theatrical Technology and Design, which points more towards that she wanted to do something like cosplay for her "career" and likely either told Jared this is what she wanted to do, or was thrilled to have Jared suggest she focus time and energy on it.

 

[NoNarcs]

For fuck's sake, she has a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree in Theatrical Technology and Design

Yeah, and she brought any loans from her Bachelor's into the marriage as well.

 

[DefinitelyNotSane]

Regarding Heidi's cosplay career, as a former fan, this is everything I observed. Jared used to promote the shit out of Heidi. She had a Twitch channel he plugged frequently on his streams; at one point she was trying to become verified and he was begging his fans to go give her a sub. (I believe this was during one of his FF streams he uploaded to YouTube.) But it didn't work because there's little to no cross-over between their target audiences. People who watch him aren't going to want to watch her sew for hours. She'd even show up in his streams bringing the cat and/or a Starbucks drink to him, and he'd ask everyone to promote her when she left. Add to that, you go to anywhere her cosplay pics are, and he's frequently listed as the photographer. Once read a post from her where she bragged how supportive and considerate he was, always making sure she was hydrated or some shit on photo shoots.

This all continued up until late last year. Then he stopped mentioning her at all and started acting depressed to the point there's Reddit threads and comments on his YT Let's Plays constantly asking what was wrong with him. To his credit, he never sperged out about how awful his life was, or muh mental health. Just said he'd had a tough year and was getting therapy. She eventually gave up on YouTube and Twitch to start making shitty clothes for her website and fairy houses.

From everything I've observed, at least outwardly, he was very supportive of her cosplay and tried to help her turn it into a paying career, but it failed miserably. She just gave up when she wasn't getting big overnight. She did come across as trying to piggyback off his fame. I wonder if she didn't blame Jared a bit for not magically turning her successful because very few of his fans supported her.