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Ahsoka as a character is an enigma to me. Anakin was barely knighted in the Clone Wars era so to give him his own padawan right after knighthood is head-scratching - even if Yoda's reasoning that it might teach him responsibility to be paired up with someone as headstrong as he was. However, she somehow matures a bit and ends up skilled thanks to (or maybe in spite of) Anakin's training, and it's hinted that she even knew about or suspected his relationship with Padme when she left the order.
Post Clone Wars, I think her appearance in Star Wars Rebels was nothing more than a way to prop up the shows mediocre ratings, similar to all the Clone Wars-era characters that appeared in the show's second season.
I was initially enthusiastic about the novel, Stars Wars: Ahsoka. As much as I felt the author did a good job, it seemed to suffer from cramming too much action into too short of a time period - as if to imply Ahsoka did a lot for a year or two after Order 66 and supposedly spent the next 13 years before Rebels working unknown behind the scenes and doing little of significance since then which would be hard for her character to do given her younger self's desire to always be part of the action.
That and it drives home the point Filoni is unwilling to have Ahsoka die, even if it would make sense in the overall story, because she is his perfect little waifu who can never die and must be shoehorned into pre-existing canon.
As an example of how her death could have furthered the SW saga, Dooku killing her during the Clone Wars could have better explained Anakin's own desire for revenge when they meet for the final time in Revenge of the Sith. Similarly, allowing Ahsoka to stay dead in Rebels could have served as a foreshadowing of Vader's striking down Obi-Wan on the death star to reinforce the idea that he didn't want any reminders of his past as Anakin. Instead, we get Filoni teasing us with numerous close calls where she always comes out largely unscathed a la Rey.
Any of your ideas is better that her fate on the original material. I think I know where they're going: Ashoka is going to appear on the period of time of the Sequels somehow. Just wait untill Resistance get to that point.
Ahsoka as a character is an enigma to me. Anakin was barely knighted in the Clone Wars era so to give him his own padawan right after knighthood is head-scratching - even if Yoda's reasoning that it might teach him responsibility to be paired up with someone as headstrong as he was. However, she somehow matures a bit and ends up skilled thanks to (or maybe in spite of) Anakin's training, and it's hinted that she even knew about or suspected his relationship with Padme when she left the order.
Post Clone Wars, I think her appearance in Star Wars Rebels was nothing more than a way to prop up the shows mediocre ratings, similar to all the Clone Wars-era characters that appeared in the show's second season.
I was initially enthusiastic about the novel, Stars Wars: Ahsoka. As much as I felt the author did a good job, it seemed to suffer from cramming too much action into too short of a time period - as if to imply Ahsoka did a lot for a year or two after Order 66 and supposedly spent the next 13 years before Rebels working unknown behind the scenes and doing little of significance since then which would be hard for her character to do given her younger self's desire to always be part of the action.
That and it drives home the point Filoni is unwilling to have Ahsoka die, even if it would make sense in the overall story, because she is his perfect little waifu who can never die and must be shoehorned into pre-existing canon.
As an example of how her death could have furthered the SW saga, Dooku killing her during the Clone Wars could have better explained Anakin's own desire for revenge when they meet for the final time in Revenge of the Sith. Similarly, allowing Ahsoka to stay dead in Rebels could have served as a foreshadowing of Vader's striking down Obi-Wan on the death star to reinforce the idea that he didn't want any reminders of his past as Anakin. Instead, we get Filoni teasing us with numerous close calls where she always comes out largely unscathed a la Rey.
Yeah I basically assumed when I first heard of her that she was going to die horribly and help push Anakin towards the clingy puss section of the Dark Side.
Ahsoka as a character is an enigma to me. Anakin was barely knighted in the Clone Wars era so to give him his own padawan right after knighthood is head-scratching - even if Yoda's reasoning that it might teach him responsibility to be paired up with someone as headstrong as he was. However, she somehow matures a bit and ends up skilled thanks to (or maybe in spite of) Anakin's training, and it's hinted that she even knew about or suspected his relationship with Padme when she left the order.
Post Clone Wars, I think her appearance in Star Wars Rebels was nothing more than a way to prop up the shows mediocre ratings, similar to all the Clone Wars-era characters that appeared in the show's second season.
I was initially enthusiastic about the novel, Stars Wars: Ahsoka. As much as I felt the author did a good job, it seemed to suffer from cramming too much action into too short of a time period - as if to imply Ahsoka did a lot for a year or two after Order 66 and supposedly spent the next 13 years before Rebels working unknown behind the scenes and doing little of significance since then which would be hard for her character to do given her younger self's desire to always be part of the action.
That and it drives home the point Filoni is unwilling to have Ahsoka die, even if it would make sense in the overall story, because she is his perfect little waifu who can never die and must be shoehorned into pre-existing canon.
As an example of how her death could have furthered the SW saga, Dooku killing her during the Clone Wars could have better explained Anakin's own desire for revenge when they meet for the final time in Revenge of the Sith. Similarly, allowing Ahsoka to stay dead in Rebels could have served as a foreshadowing of Vader's striking down Obi-Wan on the death star to reinforce the idea that he didn't want any reminders of his past as Anakin. Instead, we get Filoni teasing us with numerous close calls where she always comes out largely unscathed a la Rey.
I think you summed up the issues perfectly, especially in regards to Rebels. And yeah, Ahsoka dying at the end of the Clone Wars at Dooku's hands would've been the most appropriate conclusion to her character and would've only helped to make Anakin's fall make more sense, but Filoni just can't seem to get his waifu boner under control. It only gets weirder when you stumble across some Ahsoka-loving subreddit and find out that Filoni even gave Ahsoka's first 3D model panties over her white leggings. I mean, they could've given her an emotional sendoff that would even make her detractors love her, but instead they just banish her conveniently before she can be killed. I guess I never had much of a connection with her character because I remember Filoni from the get-go admitting that Ahsoka and Rex would survive the Clone Wars and Jedi Purge, which quickly eliminated any real sense of suspense and genuine emotion you could've had when seeing these characters in danger.
SuperSheep powiedział(a):
Then Disney took one look at that, and promptly doubled down.
That's an understatement. Feels more like they quadrupled down on the worst of it and then quadrupled down again when they had more original shit. They didn't even adopt any of its good cues or concepts and instead only adopted the worst parts from the old lore but then multiplied them by a thousand while adding some politics sprinkles over the mess and turning all the old heroes and villains into equally moronic teenagers. Its all only made worse by how Disney-Lucasfilm just keeps pumping out new material every week and giving none of these nu-fans a chance to breath, yet they still find time to empty their trustefarian wallets and gobble it all up because it has the Canon label on it, despite that the old canon-tier system made it so nothing felt mandatory and could all be enjoyed separately and distinctly from one another (hell even the films), which resulted in the fanbase having very distinct groups for everyone, with Bucketheads, the 501st, Lucenofans, OT purists, Genndy purists, Talifans, Fandalorians and even TORTanicfags, but now everything is just one big merged mess with fans of different properties that can barely co-exist trying being forced to live together, which results in them being constantly miserable and arguing unless inside of Reddit or ResetEra echo chambers stabilized only by banning differing opinions.
To be fair though, gray jedis usually ended up getting fucked too and proved that trying to balance both sides was unstable, with the best choice always being the light side in the end.
you wonder if they scrubbed the records every month or so.
Seems possible considering many real world secular, religious and almost any other important organizations would do the same to preserve their image. But yeah, there were better ways to write the jedi to be sure and there were stories that did manage to do them justice, but its kinda hard to do them right when the prequels came along (especially AOTC and Filoni Wars) and showed what the jedi were actually like, being rather emotionless and bureaucratic in contrast to the noble image that was portrayed in previous media like the old comics which made them sound like some awesome secretive holy knighthood that weren't just another branch of the fucking government. Even the first set of comics prequel comics and Genndy Wars tried to make them look endearing but AOTC kinda just made it harder to make them be that, which is why in my opinion AOTC was easily the worst SW movie before the Disney films came along.
Any of your ideas is better that her fate on the original material. I think I know what they're going: Ashoka is going to appear on the period of time of the Sequels somehow. Just wait untill Resistance get to that point.
Would they let her exist in the sequel period? Would kinda make the title "The Last Jedi" redundant, although it would be hilarious to see how they would handle that. Personally, I imagine they would give some sort of clusterfuck explanation stating that Ahsoka is traveling through time and that Luke was the last jedi because she traveled forward in time to a period after his death to help Rey after foreseeing the future. They could go full retard and just have her travel back to the dawn of the galactic civilization and make her the founder of the jedi order and the writer of the jedi books in TLJ at the end.
The EU after the prequels was so flip floppy on Order 66.
Movies: "Vader hunted down and killed everyone but Obi-Wan and Yoda".
EU: except for everyone that wasn't explicitly killed onscreen in Revenge of the Sith and even a few that probably were.
I'm not going to pretend the old EU didn't have problems. But they weren't as glaring until about 25 years in. Disney decided to make it suck right off the starting line.
Well, this has to do with the whole decanonization thing I brought up earlier. The pre-PT EU was lousy with leftover Jedi, Sith, and other Force users of various descriptions, to the point where the EU's internal continuity would be gutted if they actually went with "Vader hunted down and killed everyone but Yoda and Obi-Wan." So writers had to basically split the difference and say that "Vader hunted down and killed everyone who wasn't plot-relevant." (And when we're six trillion books in, there's a LOT of plot-relevant people.)
Well, this has to do with the whole decanonization thing I brought up earlier. The pre-PT EU was lousy with leftover Jedi, Sith, and other Force users of various descriptions, to the point where the EU's internal continuity would be gutted if they actually went with "Vader hunted down and killed everyone but Yoda and Obi-Wan." So writers had to basically split the difference and say that "Vader hunted down and killed everyone who wasn't plot-relevant." (And when we're six trillion books in, there's a LOT of plot-relevant people.)
You're totally right on this. The point where the EU started getting really bad about this seemed to start somewhere around Attack of the Clones, at which point I started getting absolutely lost by all the Jedi/Sith minutiae that started clogging up the franchise. I never got into the CGI Clone Wars stuff because I already thought the Clone Wars were dumb from the prequels and it looked, visually, like ass. I don't think Lucas quite got that the Force was better when it was mysterious. As much as people want to know more about it, it's better for them to keep wanting and never getting because it's never going to be as interesting as you think it is.
Trying to define the Jedi and Sith and the Clone Wars themselves seems like kind of a mistake. Making Boba Fett a clone and explaining anything about him was dumb. His story in Tales from The Bounty Hunters was just as dumb where he's a space puritan. It's a lot more interesting to me where he's this random loner who know one knows anything about.
They could go full exceptional individual and just have her travel back to the dawn of the galactic civilization and make her the founder of the jedi order and the writer of the jedi books in TLJ at the end.
I imagine a thousand ways that shit could fuck up the whole franchise. Imagine that they found some Jedi's bullshit manuscripts (maybe the same ones from TLJ) that predict every single event of the franchise and it turns out that it was Ashoka who wrote that because she traveled back in time. Not only that, she has a son with Rex (i'm going for most bullshit scenario possible and with an assumption that she is not canonized LGBT) that turns out to be the first Jedi. . But I can make this scenario even more bullshit and convoluted. How about Snoke somehow being originated for Ashoka Tano's time travel shenanigans a la Cell of DBZ? We can make this shit even worse. Darth Maul is alive again in Resistance because he fucking survived being impaled for Obi-Wan and he hooks up with a Rebel Mary Sue generic character with the shitty "He is not that bad" Trope. They also travel back in time and the son they have is Snoke that was secretly trained by Darth Plagueis. You see? Everything can be worse with a little bit of shit writting
And that's why the only good animated material from Star Wars is Tarkatovsky's Clone Wars. Simple, effective and goes to the point. The battle of Asaji Ventress with Anakin is 100 times better than that bullshit novel where she falls in love with a Jedi. Also, Darth Maul should have been killed in Clone Wars in a final battle against Anakin instead of dragging his corpse across the OT.
iirc a million years ago when we had hope for the Disney Wars movies the plan for the Boba movie was to kick things off like James Bond, but it's some rando killing the oompa loompa kid and taking the armor and becoming the cool Boba from Empire
iirc a million years ago when we had hope for the Disney Wars movies the plan for the Boba movie was to kick things off like James Bond, but it's some rando killing the oompa loompa kid and taking the armor and becoming the cool Boba from Empire
I don't think Lucas quite got that the Force was better when it was mysterious. As much as people want to know more about it, it's better for them to keep wanting and never getting because it's never going to be as interesting as you think it is.
I don't agree with this, not because it's not fine in theory (it is) but because of the way the Force kept getting more and more important to the story. It started out as some Daoist-type crap that helps Our Hero make an impossible shot, and by the time the PT rolled around there's an entire organization that uses it, their hidden archenemies who ALSO use it, and the Chosen One conceived by it somehow. When it's that central to the plot you have to pull back the curtain somewhat (not that midichlorians were how you do that well, but w/e) Imagine if 40K were exactly the same, but absolutely refused to explain the Warp- it wouldn't be mysterious, it would just be frustrating. If they'd kept the Force on the level it occuped in ANH (or Rogue One) then it could have been left mysterious, but as it is, they needed to explain something just to provide some context on what the hell was going on.
Definately feeling you on the Clone Wars, considering how misleading the name is- there was just the one war, and the clones were only on one side of it (as the mamluk cannon fodder of the Republic... why are we supposed to be rooting for these guys again?) All told, Zahn's explanation for the Clone Wars makes more sense just in the context of what they (it?) are actually called.
Making Boba Fett a clone and explaining anything about him was dumb. His story in Tales from The Bounty Hunters was just as dumb where he's a space puritan. It's a lot more interesting to me where he's this random loner who know one knows anything about.
See, here I'm with you, because Boba Fett wasn't central to the story. He was a small character with a big impact (both in the plot and on the audience) and leaving his identity mysterious is a good way to titillate the fans without actually changing anything.
Trying to define the Jedi and Sith and the Clone Wars themselves seems like kind of a mistake. Making Boba Fett a clone and explaining anything about him was dumb. His story in Tales from The Bounty Hunters was just as dumb where he's a space puritan. It's a lot more interesting to me where he's this random loner who know one knows anything about.
A hypocritical space puritan. Got a problem with Han running drugs? Maybe you shouldn't be taking a bounty from the guy Han was running drugs for, especially since the bounty was about Han failing to deliver the drugs.
You're totally right on this. The point where the EU started getting really bad about this seemed to start somewhere around Attack of the Clones, at which point I started getting absolutely lost by all the Jedi/Sith minutiae that started clogging up the franchise. I never got into the CGI Clone Wars stuff because I already thought the Clone Wars were dumb from the prequels and it looked, visually, like ass.
Hence why AOTC was very deserving of being considered the worst film in the franchise before the Disney films came along. Parts of SW and its lore got screwed to varying degrees by the Clone Wars, most especially the jedi. Originally the Clone Wars were obscurely defined but treated as an event that lasted far more than just a measly 3-4 years, and what was known implied that the change going in the Republic was far more well-paced and realistic as well as the production of the clones, and the implication of how the jedi's fall came about because of it, and having the Clone Masters as the villains behind the war made more sense than having the seemingly noble jedi approve of a human slave army, but I digress. Even with TPM about, the EU wasn't as fucked outside of LOTF and some Vong nukes here and there and even the portrayal of the jedi in pre-AOTC media made sense and had them be more human-like and they did their best to try and fix TPM's mistakes like the midichlorians just being a channeling thing rather than the Force itself. But then AOTC comes along and its nothing but endless clone media which just shits on pre-existing lore, with the only saving grace being stories that actually tried to mend the two continuities. Only reason it didn't completely alienate people was because of unusually amazing content like Genndy Wars, games and the comics that did it right which actually managed to make the AOTC concepts likeable despite shitting on what came before them and being off themselves, but inconsistencies were never an issue with me as long as they remain entertaining.
I don't think Lucas quite got that the Force was better when it was mysterious. As much as people want to know more about it, it's better for them to keep wanting and never getting because it's never going to be as interesting as you think it is..
As for the jedi/sith, I have to disagree, as defining them isn't impossible and it was proven to have worked very well as seen in the 90s Tales of the Jedi comics which really delivers on the mystical "east meets west" space monk/knight merger that people craved. It can work, you just need good people behind it. But then comes AOTC and makes them this emotionless scientology super cult in shaggy robes. But I really don't want to keep on with this, because I've learned to make peace with the issues then and grown to like the attempts to fix it by other content creators, and at worst I was never angry about AOTC, just indifferent with mild disappointment staved off by the fact that good games and EU media not based around clones was still coming out. Unlike with Disney which has nothing redeemable to stave off the incredible disappointment their films bring and no continuations of old stories to keep old fans interested, and then they take the worst of the old and amplify it by a million.
How am I supposed to forget the bitter taste of Disney's films when literally every corner of Disney is nothing but bitter-tasting shit?
And for those of you who might not know, Chuck Wendig knows about us now.
What I want to know is who the fuck Sifo Dyas or whatever it's spelled, and how he knew to order the clones, how he paid for it, and how none of the Council knew about it.
Ah, Chuck is quite an exceptional specimen. Let's just take a look at this gem on his Polygon's interview where he answers about people complaining for putting gay people on his shitty novel:
Ah, Chuck is quite an exceptional specimen. Let's just take a look at this gem on his Polygon's interview where he answers about people complaining for putting gay people on his shitty novel:
Truly, this man has a way with words that others can't parallel.
No really, this guy writes like a tard and I've never seen anyone vomitting this much poorly worded nonsense into the world.
This is a description of a drag queen. I'm thinking Wendig had someone in mind (possibly himself, when he's alone and wants to feel less cis-hetero-patriarchal.)
What I want to know is who the fuck Sifo Dyas or whatever it's spelled, and how he knew to order the clones, how he paid for it, and how none of the Council knew about it.
The original script for AOTC had Sifo Dyas being an alias used by Darth Sidious, but George liked the name so much he decided to make him a real jedi who was assassinated by Dooku and on Palpatine's behalf. Dooku continued to pretend to be Dyas so as to manipulate the Kaminoans into creating Order 66 and giving the Republic full control of the army so Palpatine could declare the order when needed and finally annihilate the jedi.
In the lore based on unused concepts expanding Dyas's character, Syfo Dyas and his best buddy Dooku grew disillusioned with both the Republic and the Jedi Order, seeing both as being unwilling to take the dangers posed by internal senatorial conflict, political corruption and the Order's own end times prophecies seriously, with their worries made worse by rumors of the sith returning and the jedi and republic refusing to form a proper plan against possible oncoming threats. Their distrust made them susceptible to the dark side which drew the attention of Darth Plagueis who, under his wealthy civilian guise, convinced both Dyas and Dooku that corruption was inevitable and that something had to be done before the Republic and Jedi were destroyed by the coming darkness of war. Years later, Dooku's own concerns and distrust became more apparent, leaving Dyas's faith shaken, and when he was at his most susceptible, Plagueis confronted Dyas again and told him about the Kaminoans and convinced him that he could create an army for the Jedi and the Republic in secrecy that could be held in reserve should the sith and CIS make their move against the galaxy, to which Dyas agreed. Now that he had an ally within the jedi, Plagueis became Dyas's "primary benefactor". Dyas being a jedi master and the only one of his seat vulnerable enough to manipulation made him the perfect patsy for Plagueis, and Plagueis would provide the funding necessary for the creation of the clone army so long as Dyas was the one putting his name on everything and making all the transactions without the Jedi Order's consent, but in truth Plagueis handled all of the decision making, eventually planning to betray Dyas and use the army to plot the Jedi's destruction from within. However Plagueis would never live to see his plot unfold due to being assassinated by his own apprentice, Palpatine who would continue to carry out his master's plan, but since Dyas did not trust Palpatine like he did Plagueis, Palpatine manipulated Dooku instead, turning him into his apprentice and having him kill his old friend Dyas as proof of his loyalty. Dooku would then take on Dyas's identity and carry out the clone project on Palpatine's behalf until it was ready.
The original script for AOTC had Sifo Dyas being an alias used by Darth Sidious, but George liked the name so much he decided to make him a real jedi who was assassinated by Dooku and on Palpatine's behalf Dooku continued to pretend to be Dyas so as to manipulate the Kaminoans into creating Order 66 and giving the Republic full control of the army so Palpatine could declare the order when needed and finally annihilate the jedi.
In the lore based on unused concepts expanding Dyas's character, Syfo Dyas and his best buddy Dooku grew disillusioned with both the Republic and the Jedi Order, seeing both as being unwilling to take the dangers posed by internal senatorial conflict and political corruption seriously, with their worries made worse by rumors of the sith returning and the jedi and republic refusing to form a proper plan against the oncoming threats. Their distrust made them susceptible to the dark side which drew the attention of Darth Plagueis who, under his wealthy civilian guise, convinced both Dyas and Dooku that corruption was inevitable and that something had to be done before the Republic and Jedi were destroyed by the coming darkness of war. Years later, Dooku's own concerns and distrust became more apparent, leaving Dyas's faith shaken, and when he was at his most susceptible, Plagueis confronted Dyas again and told him about the Kaminoans and convinced him that he could create an army for the Jedi and the Republic in secrecy that could be held in reserve should the sith and CIS make their move against the galaxy, to which Dyas agree, and now that he had an ally within the jedi, Plagueis became Dyas's "primary benefactor". Dyas being a jedi master and the only one of his seat vulnerable enough to manipulation made him the perfect patsy for Plagueis, and Plagueis would provide the funding necessary for the creation of the clone army so long as Dyas was the one putting his name on everything and making all the transactions without the Jedi Order's consent, but in truth Plagueis handled all of the decision making, eventually planning to betray Dyas and use the army to plot the Jedi's destruction from within. However Plagueis would never live to see his plot unfold due to being assassinated by his own apprentice, Palpatine who would continue to carry out his master's plan, but since Dyas did not trust Palpatine like he did Plagueis, Palpatine manipulated Dooku instead, turning him into his apprentice and having him kill his old friend Dyas as proof of his loyalty. Dooku would then take on Dyas's identity and carry out the clone project until it was ready.
No bullshit, it was kind of a letdown to read the script where Yoda stabbed Dooku in the fucking head with some badass overhead thrustjab Link Zelda 2 shit or whatever it was and then go the theaters and see AotC.
Truly, this man has a way with words that others can't parallel.
No really, this guy writes like a tard and I've never seen anyone vomitting this much poorly worded nonsense into the world.
No bullshit, it was kind of a letdown to read the script where Yoda stabbed Dooku in the fucking head with some badass overhead thrustjab Link Zelda 2 shit or whatever it was and then go the theaters and see AotC.
That would've been pretty neat. Its the same feeling I had when seeing how they treated Grievous in ROTS and Filoni Wars (at least he had a decent fight in ROTS I guess...). I also think they should've bothered to incorporate Dooku's background into the films so as to make his introduction feel less "out of nowhere" and feel more worthwhile by giving him some much needed depth that was only ever seen outside the films/Filoni Wars. And having Dooku die then and there probably would've been for the best and a better end than the one he got in ROTS, and I say this as someone who dearly loved Christopher Lee.
