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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way
I'm glad the maintenance guys didn't lie about how they were taking off the engine because they were able to quickly find out that 8 other planes had pylons cracked in the exact same manner as Flight 191. And they also realized that having the stickshaker, pilot instrument panel, data recorder, and CVR being powered by only one of the engines instead of being redundant is idiotic. Oh, and the hydraulic system didn't have any stops along the lines so if the system was breached at any point, all the fluid would leak out and render the entire system useless. These safety measures are always written in blood and greedy assholes like Rush will try to kill you to save a buck.
Yeah the DC10 was just designed as a bit of a death trap and despite getting it's issued ironed out (after killing around about 1,000 people due to the issues you mentioned) it became ok, but the reputation for it was down in the toilet. There is a lot of cases of A&P technicians just nigger rigging shit or just being half-assed until it results in people getting killed, like Alaska flight 261 where the jackscrew for the horizontal stabliser was not properly inspected and lubricated. This was already after they had increased the time between inspections as granted by the FAA. Or the JAL and China Airlines crashes where the rear bulkheads were not properly inspected. Both resulting in blowouts that sent the respective 747's down because of improper inspections. There is plenty of cases of this kind of shit happening, where people start circumventing the rules in order to try and get a desired outcome and it almost/does kill people. Another example is how pilots on the 727 used to pull a certain series of circuit breakers so as to get some of the forward slats out at altitude in order to make them fly higher and faster. This resulted in an incident where a TWA 727 was almost lost, and with one of the slats ripping off due to high speed mach buffeting the captain's career had somehow been saved. Here is actually a pretty good video on it if you want to watch, it relates a lot to how circumventing the rules will eventually fuck you over.
A lot of this however does not happen at all anymore due to the aforementioned. All of the rules you see in place both for pilots and maintenance have made it so this kind of stuff is very, very rare to see. Considering how Stockton Rush was, I think he probably saw he could not go around the rules due to all the oversight by the FAA (besides his eyesight issues iirc) and turned to the sea.
It shows how much he believed in the bullshit he was selling that he did all those massively retarded things and still went down there himself instead of only risking his peons. Completely moronic. How do you go down and hear a loud bang on the way back up and not check the thing out to make sure your carbon fiber wasn't deteriorating?
I think he knew this was extremely risky to do and duped himself with his own lies to keep up his own confidence in what he was doing. That is why he didn't really want to throw another hull away after the loud bang on dive 81 (I think?) and insisted on still going down. I think if he went into aerospace he probably would've learned to not go around the rules without losing his life and taking others down with him.
Those guys were kind of vindicated after UPS 2976. There were still cracked/failed bearings even after using the correct procedure. The design is probably right on the edge of acceptable.
No, the clevis design was ok, the issue was the build quality of the alloys and the inspection time being ridiculously long between each inspection. I think it was something like every 11.000 cycles or 9 years of flight time? Way longer than most aircraft, and this was an outstanding issue identified in 2005 with the MD11 (about a decade or so after it came off the production line). The plane has all sorts of issues but this was more a failure by MD/Boeing more than anything.
There's an aviation saying that safety rules are written in blood. Oceangate was like if an airline operated some falling apart shitty homemade planes and said "yeah its safe because the guy who built them only had 3 beers first!"
If you want that, look up Adam Air, or Valuejet. See how long they lasted.
This is not an aviation thread at all, but Stockton should have taken the lessons from aviation of not trying to "break da rules" like he is the Elon Musk of the deep sea. No, you are a mildly rich retard haemorrhaging money with an unprofitable idea and dragged down several other souls with you out of hubris. I hope there is more oversight put in place to stop this kind of shit happening, at the very least it puts up some awareness of people being wary about being paid to do something similar again.
Here's my report: Stockton Rush was sexually attracted to composites which is why he built a pressure vessel out of composite materials despite very few professional manufacturers doing the same and none of them being designed and built for the sort of pressures deep-sea diving requires.
He was an hubristic Elon Musk wannabe who overestimated his own intelligence and seriously thought he could make DA THING OF THE FUTURE by clobbing together random high tech-sounding materials because NASA uses them or something, so that means you can use them for anything.
He was a retard and got what he deserved. The "submarine" I built out of empty cardboard boxes when I was 10 was safer than his deathtrap.
Those guys were kind of vindicated after UPS 2976. There were still cracked/failed bearings even after using the correct procedure. The design is probably right on the edge of acceptable.
No they weren't. 191 was absolutely caused by the maintenance procedure. They recovered the entire pylon assembly and you could see on it where the forklift had lifted the engine too high and jammed the two together and dented the assembly.
Back on topic, the basic ideas of his business was idiotic in the first place. Are there really that many ultra-rich people that are going to want to shell out hundreds of thousands to go out and dive to the Titanic? Rich people are all about comfort and luxury. There aren't going to be a whole lot of them lining up to take an industrial hauler out into the freezing artic circle to go down and view the Titanic in a vessel without even seats or a bathroom.
i feel bad for the kid that apparently didnt want to go, but he wanted to spend time with his father, so he did anyway. thats so sad, and i hope his mom is able to sue the hell out of this company somehow.
that aside, i cant believe anyone would want to do something like this, even if it WAS safe. being trapped in a tiny space like that, with no bathroom except for a curtained off corner in the back....unable to eat or drink because of said lack of facilities...it sounds like a miserable time for all concerned!
You'd want titanium, not steel, to build something for that kind of crush depth, but the kind of metal is kind of immaterial, Rush's chief issue that led him to go with carbon fiber is that you'd need to either pay a specialized tooling facility to manufacture tubes/domes of the Titan's size, which is a) mega expensive, and b) it's not a guarantee you could even get time at the facility since shops capable of fabbing stuff like that basically operate 24/7, there's a lot of demand for their work. Which means the OTHER alternative is building a facility of your own, which was never viable just because of the scale that OceanGate worked at. Like, their 10 year, best-use-case-ever plan was maybe a fleet of 10 vessels, and that's if billionaires everywhere get super into deep sea tourism.
Much easier to just lay successive strips of carbon fiber over a tube in a warehouse in Everett yourself. No need to spend multiple decades building up the capital doing shallower tourist expeditions with their Antipodes model and then building Titan properly, Rush can get his ass to the Titanic and become the deep sea Elon Musk before he's too old to appreciate it.
Not even that. They cheaped out and used a wireless Logitech. Didn't even spring for an actual Xbox controller.
After this shit happened I got the wired version of the Logitech for shits n gigs. It's...serviceable.
Edit: Oh man I just remembered all the dipshits defending using a controller because "zomg they use Xbox controllers on military submarines!" Two things for those: they're not bargain basement logitechs. And they're used for non-critical tertiary systems, not piloting the damn sub.
The Navy subs use XBOX Elite controllers for controlling the periscope cameras. Apparently the controllers they originally had from the contractors were cheap pieces of shit and then they realized they were just regular USB controllers and the XBOX controllers worked and were far more robust and precise.
OceanGate is what happens when a coddled scion of a family that has been so rich for so long that they have absolutely no clue how reality works decides to make a name for himself in history books by defying the laws of physics and the reality of ocean pressure to sell trips to the Titanic for cheap bc he cut every possible corner on making the submarine used for dives. But yeah, it's possible that real actual non-retarded scientists might be able to adapt carbon fiber hulls to ROVs or "remote operated vehicles" which are those robots that go places humans can't to photograph shipwrecks and weird shit like that whale boneyard using what they've learned from this shitstorm.
Im not an engineer so here comes a retarded question: Why use carbon fiber at all for this application? I thought carbon fiber is typically for use cases where weight shedding is paramount. You’re not really worried about total weight in this scenario, right? You’re being carried by a ship and then dropped in the ocean. You could weigh basically as much as you want. I suppose your thrusters would need more juice if you weigh more but if I was going to the bottom of the ocean over and over, why not mill the whole fucking thing out of a solid steel ingot?
Because he was able to buy a bunch of surplus carbon fiber from Boeing on the cheap rather than having to splurge on Titanium which is very expensive. He didn't even customize the carbon fiber he got. He just bought a bunch of leftovers from plane production and glued it together. He didn't do any sort of research on what kind of different fiber or production methods would be best for this application. Nope, if it was good enough for the airplanes, it was good enough for him. If you ever have seen his interviews, he brags about he bought this extra space-sge material with Boeing. Boeing of course was not happy with this because at points he insinuated that he was working with Boeing on developing the material rather than just buying it from their surplus stock.
Yes, the U.S. Coast Guard's investigation concluded that Stockton Rush exhibited negligence, so it's likely a federal grand jury would have indicted him for seaman's manslaughter under 18 U.S. Code § 1115, with a max possible penalty of 10 years in prison.
Why not murder? Specific elements of that crime weren't involved in the TItan deaths. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. No evidence has emerged that anyone involved with Titan intended to kill those aboard.
You might get to gross negligence - and therefore to involuntary manslaughter - but winning that kind of case requires meeting a higher burden of proof than the simple negligence that has to be proven for seaman's manslaughter AND the defendant would face a max penalty of 8 years in prison if convicted.
So if you're the prosecutor, you're going to seek a seaman's manslaughter charge from the grand jury, right? Easier to prove, longer possible sentence. And you're probably going to seek a seaman's manslaughter charge for each of the dead.
Why not charge others involved? I'd guess prosecutors sifting the Coast Guard's evidence didn't find a way to make clear cases against specific individuals.
