YouTube Historians/HistoryTube/PopHistory

[The greater a'tuin]

Romanian youtuber is getting dragged for their nuclear brimstone take on Joan of Arc.

 

[JJLiautaud]

The Hitler apologia isn't even the worst thing about him, it's what an ill-informed moron he is about everything.

Ive watched some of his stuff and its very mid takes on books that I actually like like Stalin's War and Irving's work which certainly has its problems but isn't as zoom zoom brained as Zoomer Historian.

Romanian youtuber is getting dragged for their nuclear brimstone take on Joan of Arc.
Wyświetl załącznik 8126565

Scott Alexander's blog had a reader's submission on the evidence of Joan d'Arc

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-review-joan-of-arc

its really worth a read.

 

[LovisXVI]

Scott Alexander's blog had a reader's submission on the evidence of Joan d'Arc

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/your-review-joan-of-arc

its really worth a read.

Love that it starts with a recounting of the entire Hundred Years War up to that point. All stuff I already know, but will read anyway because Scott Alexander is a good writer.

 

[JJLiautaud]

Love that it starts with a recounting of the entire Hundred Years War up to that point. All stuff I already know, but will read anyway because Scott Alexander is a good writer.

it ain't scott its a reader submission for his summer essay contest thingy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JdvLqwQAjdc
A nice podcast on Greek coins

Jesus tap dancing christ this is the video I meant:

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

 

[Pat Mustard]

I was a fan of this pop history youtuber Feature History he stopped uploading due to his apparent chronic insomnia, its a shame his vids has really good production value for assumingly just one guy

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

Romanian youtuber is getting dragged for their nuclear brimstone take on Joan of Arc.
Wyświetl załącznik 8126565

Vee as always takes an easy target and misses.
Joan of Arc is a sacred cow and as such easy to slaughter. But if you don't know what you're doing you'll just get cow shit on your hands.
Calling her a crisis actor is pure midwit. And conceding on the burning torpedoes his own point, what kind of crisis actor gets himself killed.

The real way to attack Joan of Arc is to go after the saint hood, given in the 20th century to a woman that failed the standards of the time for visions and would have been burned at the stake anywhere else not just English territory.

 

[JJLiautaud]

Vee as always takes an easy target and misses.
Joan of Arc is a sacred cow and as such easy to slaughter. But if you don't know what you're doing you'll just get cow shit on your hands.
Calling her a crisis actor is pure midwit. And conceding on the burning torpedoes his own point, what kind of crisis actor gets himself killed.

The real way to attack Joan of Arc is to go after the saint hood, given in the 20th century to a woman that failed the standards of the time for visions and would have been burned at the stake anywhere else not just English territory.

Except that her trial was a complete fucking farce even by medieval standards every one acknowledged this after the trial, plus the St Hildegard had visions and no one accused her of witchcraft

 

[Slap47]

This was an odd one...

 

[LovisXVI]

Wyświetl załącznik 8130867

Wyświetl załącznik 8130868

This was an odd one...

I am glad he got canned.

 

[Quarterback Rex Grossman]

Romanian youtuber is getting dragged for their nuclear brimstone take on Joan of Arc.
Wyświetl załącznik 8126565

Vee's a Romanian atheist who thinks America doesn't have an actual left wing party, so he occasionally has retarded takes because he's descended from Dracula or something.

 

[Rimanah]

The real way to attack Joan of Arc is to go after the saint hood, given in the 20th century to a woman that failed the standards of the time for visions and would have been burned at the stake anywhere else not just English territory.

In addition to the reasons @JJLiautaud mentioned for why this is bullshit, her trial was overturned by the Vatican within 24 years of her death, meaning even those at the time recognized her trial was BS. And her cause for sainthood was never formally put forth in a petition to the Vatican until the 19th century. That’s why she wasn’t canonized till the 20th. She’s also hardly the first saint with a lag between their death and their canonization, even if hers may be on the longer side. Even then, she’s far from the longest. The aforementioned St Hildegard holds that title, with almost 400 years over Joan.
Moreover, the requirements for Sainthood are easily more difficult in modern times than they were at the time of her death.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

In addition to the reasons @JJLiautaud mentioned for why this is bullshit, her trial was overturned by the Vatican within 24 years of her death, meaning even those at the time recognized her trial was BS, and her cause for sainthood was never put forth by the Vatican until the 20th century.
Moreover, the requirements for Sainthood are easily more difficult today than they were then

>It's much harder dude
>That's why we did it 6 centuries after she kicked the bucket
>It was just so happening that France was in a really bad spot when we did it and Joan of Arc became this big propaganda Icon
If you think her sainthood was given honestly I have a letter from Constantine to sell to you.

 

[Rimanah]

>It's much harder dude
>That's why we did it 6 centuries after she kicked the bucket
>It was just so happening that France was in a really bad spot when we did it and Joan of Arc became this big propaganda Icon
If you think her sainthood was given honestly I have a letter from Constantine to sell to you.

Yes, the canonization process is indisputably harder in the modern period than it was in the late medieval. The Church requires miracles be proven inexplicable by the standards of science, and that is capable of explaining a lot more now than it was at the time of Joan’s death. I’m not even sure that was a formal requirement when she died.
And as I already pointed out, the great lag between her death and canonization isn’t out of the ordinary, it’s happened for many other saints and she’s not even the longest wait. Absent particular evidence about flaws in her canonization process, it is nothing to raise eyebrows at. Unless we’re to throw out all saints who take a long time to be canonized. Which in turn begs the question of how long after their death is someone not able to be declared a saint?

 

[Computer God Autism]

>It's much harder dude
>That's why we did it 6 centuries after she kicked the bucket
>It was just so happening that France was in a really bad spot when we did it and Joan of Arc became this big propaganda Icon
If you think her sainthood was given honestly I have a letter from Constantine to sell to you.

If sainthood is real, the Catholic church doesn't give the status, it recognizes it - whether or not it recognizes it would have no consequence on whether someone was a true Christian.

You can argue there was political motivation behind Joan's canonization, sure, that certainly was a component - but you're not arguing against her being a saint, you're just being a contrarian bitch about the motivation for the Catholic church saying she was.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

If sainthood is real, the Catholic church doesn't give the status, it recognizes it - whether or not it recognizes it would have no consequence on whether someone was a true Christian.

That's such a massive cop out and you know it. How many virgin saints had to wait for centuries to be recognized. And how many virgin saints are immediately called patron saints.

 

[LovisXVI]

If sainthood is real, the Catholic church doesn't give the status, it recognizes it - whether or not it recognizes it would have no consequence on whether someone was a true Christian.

That makes it all the more convenient that it occurs when most politically expedient.

 

[Computer God Autism]

That's such a massive cop out and you know it.

Not really, no. I'm not Catholic and I'm agnostic on sainthood, but I see no reason why saints only recognized by the Orthodox or Coptic churches would be any less saints than those recognized only by the Catholic church and vice-versa.

How many virgin saints had to wait for centuries to be recognized. And how many virgin saints are immediately called patron saints.

Well Hidlegard of Bingen has been brought up to you twice now, but I can also think of Genevieve and Margaret of Hungary off the top of my head as two others who had longer waiting times between their deaths and canonizations than Joan of Arc. If I start looking I'm certain I could find a dozen more.

Either way, Joan's virginity was not central to her canonization or status as a patron saint of France so I have no idea why you're bringing it up.

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

Joan's virginity was not central to her canonization or status as a patron saint of France so I have no idea why you're bringing it up.

It's the type of saint she is. A virgin saint. Not a martyr, not a miracle worker.

but I can also think of Genevieve

Genevieve was de facto canonized a century later and her older canonization is upheld by even the Orthodox church.

Margaret of Hungary

Which you can also make an argument was tinged by politics.

 

[Computer God Autism]

It's the type of saint she is. A virgin saint. Not a martyr, not a miracle worker.

Fair enough, and the conditions of her canonization as one were hardly unique.

Genevieve was de facto canonized a century later

And you could say the same about Joan of Arc.

Which you can also make an argument was tinged by politics.

Absolutely, but ultimately whether or not the motivation behind Catholic Church's canonization was 100% wholesome chungus is irrelevant to the question of whether or not she and Joan are Saints, and just comes off as pointless complaining. Churches allow politics to influence decision-making, news at 11.