2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

So a few updates:

Although all living hostages were returned on Monday, Hamas was also obligated to return all bodies to Israel. Only 4 were released the first day, and it looks like another 4 were delivered today.

The names of the more recent 4 have not been confirmed as of yet. Likely genetic testing being done to confirm their identities.

Seemingly Hamas thought the condition of releasing the bodies wasn't serious. In turn, Israel has cut the amount of aid trucks entering Gaza in half until the bodies are delivered.

Again, it would be shocking if Hamas has all the bodies. Nobody is going too keep a corpse stashed away in a locker for 2 years, especially with limited electricity and under bombardment. Hamas probably didn't take that part of the deal seriously because it's absurd.

Israel would be making a huge mistake turning that into the poison pill. Better too preserve credibility for when Hamas inevitably refuses too disarm.
 
Again, it would be shocking if Hamas has all the bodies. Nobody is going too keep a corpse stashed away in a locker for 2 years, especially with limited electricity and under bombardment. Hamas probably didn't take that part of the deal seriously because it's absurd.

Israel would be making a huge mistake turning that into the poison pill. Better too preserve credibility for when Hamas inevitably refuses too disarm.
I think Israel has intel that Hamas is in possession of more bodies than they let on, probably their locations as well. If that’s the case, the only hope of getting them back would be applying this kind of pressure.
 
Hamas isn't going to be hanging onto bodies. It'll be a case of the bodies will be under rubble somewhere and not recovered. They might not even know where and no one left alive who does. It's thought most of the dead hostages were killed by Israeli' airstrikes, so I can't imagine it'd do them well to bring attention to that right now or ever.
 
Hamas isn't going to be hanging onto bodies. It'll be a case of the bodies will be under rubble somewhere and not recovered. They might not even know where and no one left alive who does. It's thought most of the dead hostages were killed by Israeli' airstrikes, so I can't imagine it'd do them well to bring attention to that right now or ever.
And in the case of swift unmarked burials, the only people who would know where the graves are would be the same Hamas fighters Israel has been very determined too kill for the last 2 years. Considering how successful that effort has been its quite likely nobody is alive today who knows where all the Graves or collapsed tunnels are.

The bodies will not be coming back. The best Israel can hope for is the corrolary clause in agreement that failing too locate the bodies, hamas won't interfere with independent efforts too find them.
 
Again, it would be shocking if Hamas has all the bodies. Nobody is going too keep a corpse stashed away in a locker for 2 years, especially with limited electricity and under bombardment. Hamas probably didn't take that part of the deal seriously because it's absurd.

Israel would be making a huge mistake turning that into the poison pill. Better too preserve credibility for when Hamas inevitably refuses too disarm.
They know Israel wants them so they would try to keep them if possible. Not to say they would necessarily succeed or that Israel should scuttle the deal over some bodies, but it definitely wouldn’t be shocking if Hamas still had the bodies and was trying to come with a trick to keep them
 
Again, it would be shocking if Hamas has all the bodies. Nobody is going too keep a corpse stashed away in a locker for 2 years, especially with limited electricity and under bombardment. Hamas probably didn't take that part of the deal seriously because it's absurd.

Israel would be making a huge mistake turning that into the poison pill. Better too preserve credibility for when Hamas inevitably refuses too disarm.

I don't think it was mentioned in the article, but I was having issues posting that earlier. Another article did suggest that Israeli intelligence believes Hamas is aware of the locations of more bodies than just the 8.

How many total? Who knows. But Hamas playing games with corpses isn't new.

Even if they were killed in airstrikes, I would expect Hamas has some idea where they were held, if nothing else than a starting point to search. The hostages and these bodies are/were leverage, but leverage isn't useful if you can't find them
 
I don't think it was mentioned in the article, but I was having issues posting that earlier. Another article did suggest that Israeli intelligence believes Hamas is aware of the locations of more bodies than just the 8.

How many total? Who knows. But Hamas playing games with corpses isn't new.

Even if they were killed in airstrikes, I would expect Hamas has some idea where they were held, if nothing else than a starting point to search. The hostages and these bodies are/were leverage, but leverage isn't useful if you can't find them
Just take the W. Israel has shattered the Axis of Resistance, humiliated Iran, captured the entirety of the Golan Heights and has demonstrated once again why every Arab army shits itself at the prospect of going toe to toe with the IDF.

At the end of the day Trump is correct that a small country of 10 million cannot fight the world. Let whatever bullshit hamas does reflect on Trump, the Americans and all the other countries signing on too the plan. If hamas decides too fuck around, the finding out doesnt have too come from Israel at this point.
 
Just take the W. Israel has shattered the Axis of Resistance, humiliated Iran, captured the entirety of the Golan Heights and has demonstrated once again why every Arab army shits itself at the prospect of going toe to toe with the IDF.

At the end of the day Trump is correct that a small country of 10 million cannot fight the world. Let whatever bullshit hamas does reflect on Trump, the Americans and all the other countries signing on too the plan. If hamas decides too fuck around, the finding out doesnt have too come from Israel at this point.

Hey, I don't disagree. But I'm not Israeli (or Jewish), so I'll let some of our Jewish posters answer, but from my understanding, Jews are very sensitive about getting their bodies for burial.

At least, from my understanding, the Israelis are trading dead for dead this time around. Giving living terrorists for dead Israelis was always a retarded idea.

I don't think the Israelis will break the ceasefire for the bodies, but closing the aid spigot isn't a bad choice, and I'd make a guess the Israelis consulted with Trump over it, considering Trump is basically telling Hamas "Don't fuck with me" for the last few days.
 
By now we all know Hamas’s strategy. Play games to force Israel’s hand, then twist the narrative to play victim and galvanize students and other gullibles to their cause.

They love to twist the knife when they can, such as when they made that spectacle with the Bibas babies when delivering their bodies. Or how the body in Shiri’s coffin was some random Gazan lady.

I say the onus is on Hamas to prove that they can’t locate the bodies and employed all possible means to try to find them. Hamas knows that the hostages are its only leverage, so I think they know exactly where the bodies are.
 
Given that the conflict is in a relatively cold state.

I want to explore the mistakes that lead to how the conflict played out.

Israel unilateraly withdrawn from gaza in 2005.
Israel used to control gaza up to 2005 , they had settlements with 8,475 Israeli living in these gaza settlements
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In 2005 Israel withdrew completely from gaza, removing all the Israeli settlements from the region

The withdrawal effectively Kickstarted the dinmo that eventually lead to 7th October.

The reason of the withdrawal

Sharon was concerned about the high birth rate of Palestinians in the relatively small area of gaza, (from his point of view) protecting the Israeli settlements will become more and more difficult and expensive year by year , (from his point of view) protecting the settlements now might be feasible against almost 2 million gazans, but if the demographic trends continued how would Israel protect the settlements against 10 million gazans?


hamas reaction to the withdrawal

hamas were extremely happy about that , to the point of some gazans shekhs banning the killing of Israeli soldiers(fearing the killings might delay the withdrawal).


the immediate consequences of the withdrawal

An election was held in "Palestine" and hamas won the the election(the elections were legitimate and democratic btw).

The results (shockingly) shocked Israel and the west, they wondered "why did the Palestinian electe the jehadis who declared war on all jews and loved hitler over fatah , fatah just wanted to kill Israelis not all jews , fatah were (relative to hamas) secular"

The election Kickstarted a civil war that hamas won in gaza.

how did hamas benefit from the Israeli withdrawal

hamas used gaza as a base of operation.

They started to openly recruit soldier.

They started digging up the tunnels

The rocket attacks has increased in quantity and quality(beforethe withdrawalthe rockets attack were useless).


October 7th beta version or 2006 Hamas cross-border raid

Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades(the dudes who later did October 7th) did something unprecedented, through a tunnel they crossed into Israeli territory and attacked IDF border positions ,
in the process they captured Gilad Shalit
Hamas used only 7 to 8 soldiers to do that entire operation.

this event was so unprecedented that shalit didn't shoot at the hamas members when he saw them and surrendered when they drew their guns at him without a thought.

In response

Israel launched an operation to rescue shalit, failed miserably.


After said failure
Israel and hamas agreed on a prisoner exchange deal.

Gilad Shalit in exchange of 1027 PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS , among them sinwar(the guy who practically was hamas leader in October 7th)

this event taught hamas a couple of things.
1-Israel is extremely vulnerable to tunnel attacks
2- capturing Israelis is extremely valuable.
3- Israel has failed to rescue shalit , so that proved the tunnels effectiveness for hiding hostages
4- Israeli bombing won't be severe, in fear of accidentally killing shalit.

This inspired hamas and their primary supporters (iran) to draw plans to repeat the success of the crossing, but this time it won't be just 7 hamas members, but this time they won't just kill tow soldiers and take one hostage, but this time they won't retreat after the initial attacks.

This plan eventually became "طوفان الأقصى" October 7th.

in conclusion.

Israel's mistakes were as such

1 - withdrawal from gaza

2 - docile and weak reaction to hamas rocket attacks

3 - giving the Palestinians an incentive to terrorize the Israelis(the attacks in the west bank increased in hopes of forcing Israel into another withdrawal) after all terrorism is why they withdrew from gaza in the first place.

4 - not derailing the tunnel building process that hamas was engaged in, and failings to secure the border with gaza.

5 - giving the Palestinians an incentive to capture as many hostages as possible (after all hamas gained tremendously from capturing just one random dude)

6 - failing to rescue Gilad Shalit (basically proving the tunnels effectiveness)

7 - not bombing gaza due to the fear of accidently killing shalit(giving even more incentive to capture hostages)

8 - not punishing hamas for the capture of shalit, after exchanging shalit for the thousand terrorists Israel did nothing to deterre hamas from trying that again.

9 - using Israeli corpses to exchange terrorists , by exchanging terrorist for dead bodys Israel gave hamas no good reason not to kill the hostages (after all they are still valuable without their soul)

10 - not showing the atrocities of 7th October, similar mistake to what America did after 9/11 (most people have no idea of how brutal the attacks were , the images in thier mind is just "tow planes hitting tow buildings" not the thousands of dead people dying from them(footage of people dying was never released).
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
Ostatnio edytowane:
Israel unilateraly withdrawn from gaza in 2005.
It is important to mention that Israel back then had a pretty big pro peace movements, the idea of "let's give terrorists what they want and they'll stop" doesn't sound weird to those people. The right also hoped that doing this will get rid of Palestinian terrorism by just sealing them in, which didn't happen once they switched to rockets and tunnels.

All the lives supposedly saved by this move were lost in the October 7th.

There was absolutely insane civilian movement to release him at every price, which ended up with at least 20 dead Israelis by the killers that were released, even before the war. At least the released terrorist ratio is lower this time, but Israel has to start a death penalty for terrorism to stop this insanity.
 
It is important to mention that Israel back then had a pretty big pro peace movements, the idea of "let's give terrorists what they want and they'll stop" doesn't sound weird to those people. The right also hoped that doing this will get rid of Palestinian terrorism by just sealing them in, which didn't happen once they switched to rockets and tunnels.
Sharon did it for demographic reasons, he took the settlers from gaza and put them in the west Bank.

Most "pro peace activist" saw that as just a move to "colonize" the west bank.
All the lives supposedly saved by this move were lost in the October 7th.
sharon was thinking in an extremely long term, it might be actually dangerous for 40,000 Israeli settlers to be surrounded by more then 10 million gazans.

Israel was busy fighting hezbollah , so hamas built the tunnels without any harassment from Israel.

If Israel destroyed the tunnels at their infancy we could've seen a different story
There was absolutely insane civilian movement to release him at every price, which ended up with at least 20 dead Israelis by the killers that were released, even before the war. At least the released terrorist ratio is lower this time, but Israel has to start a death penalty for terrorism to stop this insanity.
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Sharons should've known better , you can't just do what the people want.

but Israel has to start a death penalty for terrorism to stop this insanity.
My nigga Itamar Ben-Gvir is from basrah, he got that basrah mentality of "just kill em"
Vote ben gvir
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
I think Israel has intel that Hamas is in possession of more bodies than they let on, probably their locations as well.
Agree. I suspect they knew where all the alive hostages were and some of the dead ones. We are in 2025 where we have high resolution satellites covering every millimeter of Gaza at all times.
 
I think other than celebrating an end to the current war and the return of the living hostages, some of the celebrations are premature. This is not the beginning of an eternity of peace throughout the entire Middle East because Muslims are still greedy savages living in the 7th century. But I do think the deal is an indication that many Arab countries have Palestine fatigue and are interested in doing what they can to make their billionaire oil princes even richer.

These countries didn’t just come to the negotiation table out of the goodness of their hearts. These guys are greedy af. Like even the president of Indonesia smelled some shekels all the way in Oceania and meandered over for his ration. Everything has a price, and in a couple of these cases the price might be some f16s.
 
For the families of the hostages,getting their family member back have been prio 1.
It says something that Palestinians gives zero fuck about their civilians while Israel will go through hell to get them back, dead or alive.
 
Sharon did it for demographic reasons, he took the settlers from gaza and put them in the west Bank.

Most "pro peace activist" saw that as just a move to "colonize" the west bank.
Demographics was a tool Israeli leftists liked to use in the past but it turned out to be incorrect as Arab Israelis, like most western populations, massively dropped their birthrate as their quality of life went up. Nowadays demographics scare are mainly above ultra orthodox Jews.
sharon was thinking in an extremely long term, it might be actually dangerous for 40,000 Israeli settlers to be surrounded by more then 10 million gazans.

Israel was busy fighting hezbollah , so hamas built the tunnels without any harassment from Israel.

If Israel destroyed the tunnels at their infancy we could've seen a different story
Still the main result of ceding territory is teaching Palestinians that terrorism worked. As for the tunnels, there isn't any real way of destroying those without dropping a bunker buster over the entire border with Gaza every week. It was simply impossible to stop permanently, at least without making the entirety of the border a No Man's Land (that might happen now).
Sharons should've known better , you can't just do what the people want.
Sadly in a Democracy, those people tend to have the most say.
My nigga Itamar Ben-Gvir is from basrah, he got that basrah mentality of "just kill em"
Vote ben gvir
It needs to be done by saner politicians. It's not like there aren't first world countries with a death penalty.
 
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