Video Game Archival Autism / TCRF / Jul / Sonic Retro / And More - Harvest Troon: Friends of Byuu-Near-al town

Trying to not derail this as much but considering my only option is a general thread where people discuss emulation itself this is my best place to share this on-par xKeeper ego-tism. (Emulation is technically archival / preservation because not everyone has access to hardware)
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Even the MelonDS (click the link to induce a panic attack!) dev is not safe from general HRT-induced passive-aggressiveness, I suppose faggotry cultivates acting like a smug troon when you are faced with problems like these.
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Trying to not derail this as much but considering my only option is a general thread where people discuss emulation itself this is my best place to share this on-par xKeeper ego-tism. (Emulation is technically archival / preservation because not everyone has access to hardware)
You're good homie. Anything related to video game archival and retro 'community' gossip is welcome in the thread.
 
Case In Point:

It's mind-blowing how devs back in the day were able to perform magnificent feats with old tech and yet to this day devs have issue trying to replicate that with new tech.
To bring you up to speed a bit, the reason SADX's Steam release is the way it is is because of the following:
There are actually two versions of OG Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast, the original Japanese 1998 release, and the localized version released in 1999. A chunk of the dev team behind SA1, led by Takashi Iizuka, moved to California after SA1 wrapped up, and over there, in addition to localizing the game, patched a bunch of bugs and glitches and polished up the game in some areas. This new version of the game would be re-released in Japan as "Sonic Adventure International."

For SADX, they actually used the original, buggier JP version as a base rather than SA International, and the re-release wasn't even led by Iizuka, making the "Director's Cut" subtitle seem pointless. From there SADX would be ported from the GCN, to the 360, to the PC, meaning you have a buggier build of Sonic Adventure that's been through multiple wringers.
 
Trying to not derail this as much but considering my only option is a general thread where people discuss emulation itself this is my best place to share this on-par xKeeper ego-tism. (Emulation is technically archival / preservation because not everyone has access to hardware)
Wyświetl załącznik 7534067
Wyświetl załącznik 7534068
Even the MelonDS (click the link to induce a panic attack!) dev is not safe from general HRT-induced passive-aggressiveness, I suppose faggotry cultivates acting like a smug troon when you are faced with problems like these.
Hot take: Arisotura is probably in the right here. He’s not spazzing out over people disagreeing with him, just taking care of a script kiddie. Sure, the wording is a little passive-aggressive, but it’s nowhere near as bad as X’s screeds.
 
Hot take: Arisotura is probably in the right here. He’s not spazzing out over people disagreeing with him, just taking care of a script kiddie. Sure, the wording is a little passive-aggressive, but it’s nowhere near as bad as X’s screeds.
He could have gone without insulting the person and address issues in a concise manner without sounding stuck-up. Indeed it's not as bad as Workman's; but appropriating this type of behavior can only result in it building up overtime and it crashing down on you.
 
One of the most famous of which (to me, anyway) being when Square Enix deleted the master assets for Kingdom Hearts 1 and had to remake them from scratch for first HD re-release.
Ironically, we have Nintendo, who everyone cries about not caring about preservation (read: not just giving away all their old games for free in perpetuity) who thanks to the gigaleak we have proof they meticulously hold onto everything they've made since at least the SNES era. Even things they don't need to hold onto anymore.
 
One of the most famous of which (to me, anyway) being when Square Enix deleted the master assets for Kingdom Hearts 1 and had to remake them from scratch for first HD re-release.
Another one is Silent Hill HD collection where the code they kept was actually from unfinished prototype builds.
Ironically, we have Nintendo, who everyone cries about not caring about preservation (read: not just giving away all their old games for free in perpetuity) who thanks to the gigaleak we have proof they meticulously hold onto everything they've made since at least the SNES era. Even things they don't need to hold onto anymore.
Uh, not really. We actually lost out on a metric SHITTON of Super Nintendo shit because they let the tapes they were stored on fail. They could be backed up somewhere else, but it's not likely...
 
One of my favorite little traits about all this is the Creative Commons thing, because of how well it encapsulates the white-and-black way these people perceive morality.

Back when the internet was younger, there was a much stronger monoculture, and just about everyone believed in the inherent righteousness of freedom of information and access to it. It was something that seems so implicitly virtuous that it would never so much as be questioned or invite conflict.

However, now that XKeeper is being faced with a situation in which freedom of access to information is being utilized in a way that he doesn't like, he's all but trying to find a way to walk back that line.

It really goes to show, I think, just how many virtues a lot of us hold that we see as so right that there's basically no context in which they might ever be turned against us, and if XKeeper had two brain cells to rub together, maybe he'd stop and have a hard think about the fact that there's probably always a good reason that any issue being argued has more than one side, and that reason goes deeper than "I'm just evil and want you to die".

He and his ilk could stand to learn a lot from the consequences of that, maybe it would make them more empathetic towards and willing to coexist with people who don't share their opinion.
 
One of my favorite little traits about all this is the Creative Commons thing, because of how well it encapsulates the white-and-black way these people perceive morality.

Back when the internet was younger, there was a much stronger monoculture, and just about everyone believed in the inherent righteousness of freedom of information and access to it. It was something that seems so implicitly virtuous that it would never so much as be questioned or invite conflict.

However, now that XKeeper is being faced with a situation in which freedom of access to information is being utilized in a way that he doesn't like, he's all but trying to find a way to walk back that line.

It really goes to show, I think, just how many virtues a lot of us hold that we see as so right that there's basically no context in which they might ever be turned against us, and if XKeeper had two brain cells to rub together, maybe he'd stop and have a hard think about the fact that there's probably always a good reason that any issue being argued has more than one side, and that reason goes deeper than "I'm just evil and want you to die".

He and his ilk could stand to learn a lot from the consequences of that, maybe it would make them more empathetic towards and willing to coexist with people who don't share their opinion.
Xkeeper is a pest and needs to have his toys taken away from him. I genuinely hope the sharty or someone else ruin his life, altho the former probably already forgot about him. That's how forgettable his existence is.
 
Uh, not really. We actually lost out on a metric SHITTON of Super Nintendo shit because they let the tapes they were stored on fail. They could be backed up somewhere else, but it's not likely...
I've never heard of this and can't even find it. Regardless, Nintendo knew to hold onto things and not trash them, even if their tapes failed, and they had the good sense to put everything on a private server when the technology got to that point, instead of staying on tape backups.
 
Ironically, we have Nintendo, who everyone cries about not caring about preservation (read: not just giving away all their old games for free in perpetuity) who thanks to the gigaleak we have proof they meticulously hold onto everything they've made since at least the SNES era. Even things they don't need to hold onto anymore.
Nintendo became the scapegoat for emulation crusaders after A) Frank Cifaldi did that GDC talk on Nintendo "downloading ROMs from the Internet and selling them back to you", B) they started taking down YT videos in the early 2010s, and C) the myth that they hate their fans began in the mid 2010s with a string of divisive games, on top of fangame takedowns and later suing a few ROM sites, and it never truly went away. Almost every major gaming YouTuber has made a Nintendo rant video at least once in their lives, seeing them as a bunch of out-of-touch old people that will "never learn" compared to MicroSony.
 
Nintendo became the scapegoat for emulation crusaders after A) Frank Cifaldi did that GDC talk on Nintendo "downloading ROMs from the Internet and selling them back to you", B) they started taking down YT videos in the early 2010s, and C) the myth that they hate their fans began in the mid 2010s with a string of divisive games, on top of fangame takedowns and later suing a few ROM sites, and it never truly went away. Almost every major gaming YouTuber has made a Nintendo rant video at least once in their lives, seeing them as a bunch of out-of-touch old people that will "never learn" compared to MicroSony.
We also have them hiking prices and sending out weird intimidation groups after people they don't like.
We've had them historically meddling in the games industry with cases like Frank Howard testifying against Night Trap and Mortal Kombat to try and fuck with SEGA and trying to contractually wrangle third party publishers into not developing for other consoles in the 80's.
 
We've had them historically meddling in the games industry with cases like Frank Howard testifying against Night Trap and Mortal Kombat to try and fuck with SEGA and trying to contractually wrangle third party publishers into not developing for other consoles in the 80's.
Apparently Night Trap was planned for SNES-CD. I feel like a lot of the things Nintendo did in the 80s were mainly done out of necessity, as to prevent a lot of the issues that caused the video game industry to crash in the early 80s, like limiting the amount of games on store shelves, or attempting to ensure quality. Once the ESRB was formed following the MK lawsuits, they seemed perfectly fine with allowing Mature rated games on their systems.
 
One of the most famous of which (to me, anyway) being when Square Enix deleted the master assets for Kingdom Hearts 1 and had to remake them from scratch for first HD re-release.
I always thought that was a weird move when, for example, the team who did the God of War HD remasters were asked how they got the assets they openly say they were able to take a retail copy of the games and reverse engineer them, so I wonder why that isn't always possible, but I'm also not a programmer.
 
I always thought that was a weird move when, for example, the team who did the God of War HD remasters were asked how they got the assets they openly say they were able to take a retail copy of the games and reverse engineer them, so I wonder why that isn't always possible, but I'm also not a programmer.
It's complicated. Basically every program's architecture is, in a way, its own language, and some are more easily reverse-engineerable than others. In cases where it seems like cracking something open and getting at the gooey assets on the inside is a 5-minute process, it's more than likely because someone or a group of someones in the past spent months of their life building a tool to do just that.

The thing about programming is that its implicit reusability means that you can see a lot of the time costs in it as sort of... temporally-flexible. If a tool needs made to decompile this particular engine, it's gonna take X amount of months of work, but whether that work is done now or was done five years ago, that amount of work needs to be done at some point.

You're generally gonna be more lucky with it when it comes to engines that are widely-used - Unity, Unreal, GMS etc are used by lots of people and so it's more likely someone's done the legwork of making those toolsets for them, but especially back when KH was made (all the way up to the mid/late 00s, I'd say), the thing to do was to make your own architecture in house (Square did this a lot and it's why they tended to get so much out of their hardware), which makes it disproportionately more likely that auxiliary tools like decompilers, etc don't exist yet, as they hadn't yet been made for that particular program/engine.

There's also the fact that such tools are much easier to make when working from source code, or even just architectural documentation - if the team who did the GoW remasters seemed to get the assets from a retail copy with minimal work, it's entirely possible that, say, a tool was made during the original game's development (or they had enough documentation to know the spec they were working with) that building a decompiler took very little effort. However, if you have less knowledge, no source access, etc, it's more likely that you need to break open the executable with some reverse-engineering software, look at a bunch of ugly Assembler code, and do a bunch of upfront work just trying to understand how the thing is built, sort of "learning the language" of the program before you can start actually meaningfully interacting with it.

Basically, there's a lot of unknowns, and every programming situation is so different in its structure and foundation that you can only really directly compare things when they come from nearly-identical circumstances. You can see it as somewhat similar to learning a language - the more you know about it, the less work it's going to take, but if it's your culture's first exposure to anything in its linguistic family and nobody has ever seen it before, before you can even begin to reckon with what it's saying, you have to do the legwork of learning its structure, how it operates, etc, which is a lot of meticulous comparison, pattern-finding, trial and error, poking it with a stick, etc.
 
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I always thought that was a weird move when, for example, the team who did the God of War HD remasters were asked how they got the assets they openly say they were able to take a retail copy of the games and reverse engineer them, so I wonder why that isn't always possible, but I'm also not a programmer.
Laziness and incompetence. That's your answer. Though, it can also take a long time, too.
 
It's complicated.
I really like this post. It's a good summary of the challenges involved. This is why I think documenting asset formats would be extremely valuable. I also just remembered that archiveteam runs a file format wiki, so it wouldn't exactly be novel. The value for a TCRF+ would be grouping games and formats together.

Basically every program's architecture is, in a way, its own language,
An asset's format is in fact a language insofar the spec (or whatever they hacked together ad-hoc) can be described as a formal grammar.
 
An asset's format is in fact a language insofar the spec (or whatever they hacked together ad-hoc) can be described as a formal grammar.
Yeah, that's true - relevant to the discussions at hand, the fact that most assets in the domain of art, etc are handled with contemporary filetypes does make it easier and more standard to interact with them since you don't really need to decrypt them or anything (unless there's something *really* fucky going on), so something like extracting asset files is generally gonna be easier than mapping out and rewriting code. I think I described that bit a little too naively.
 
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