Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholicism General) - It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire.

Who is the best Catholic apologist alive today?

  • Bishop Robert Barron

    Głosy: 73 38,4%
  • Fr. Mike Schmitz

    Głosy: 83 43,7%
  • Trent Horn

    Głosy: 46 24,2%
  • Jimmy Akin

    Głosy: 20 10,5%
  • Joe Heschmeyer

    Głosy: 13 6,8%
  • Matt Fradd

    Głosy: 11 5,8%
  • Scott Hahn

    Głosy: 22 11,6%
  • Brayden Cook - TheCatechumen

    Głosy: 4 2,1%
  • Taylor Marshall

    Głosy: 7 3,7%
  • Christian Fagner

    Głosy: 11 5,8%
  • James White

    Głosy: 17 8,9%

  • Łączna liczba głosujących
    190
I don't think it's that important really and ultimately has nothing to do with the price of fish, yeah there's variant interpretations but ultimately TND and related topics... are entirely worldly and don't have a place in a religious context, if you bring it into faith related discussion you're slapping a dead cat on the table, not actually discussing the religion.
Leave that shit to the mudslimes, the One True Faith is simply above and beyond.
 
looking for clarification here- how could compassion be used as a weapon?
Maybe not what they're talking about, I can't read their mind, but it's not so much compassion that people usually weaponize as it is the  idea of compassion. Basically, taking something that is in itself a good thing and using it in a way that's manipulative and insincere.

A classic example would be a megachurch pastor asking for donations to build wells for villages in the Ethiopian Highlands, then using the money to buy theirself a private jet. In this context, though, Cause Parasites are probably more relevant. They're people who have a certain agenda and latch onto other, legitimate-but-unrelated (or only tangentially related) protest movements as a means to the end of advancing that agenda. Tankies, Marxist-Leninist-Maoists whose end goal is a Stalinist-style "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" run by their supposed Vanguard Party, are probably one of the best known groups who do this in the US. They'll march in support of LGBT and Pro-Choice causes while simultaneously supporting dictatorial regimes and terrorist organizations who openly murder homosexual men and impose some of the most aggressively misogynistic policies imaginable, usually on the grounds that those groups are nominally Anti-Imperialist. At the same time, they deny or outright support the crimes of the People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation, two of the only old-school land empires left on Earth, as the former commits actual cultural genocide against the Uighur people in Xinjiang in the name of "counterterrorism", and the latter wages a war of aggression against Ukraine in order to allow Moscow to recapture as much of its Soviet-era sphere of influence as possible. Their self-proclaimed compassion for the vulnerable and marginalized is superficially very intense, but isn't a sincere guiding principle. It's a cudgel that they can use to bludgeon others with accusations that they're the ones lacking compassion.

Encouraging people to misplace compassion by intentionally misrepresenting the facts of a situation can also be a useful tool for a sociopathic manipulator, like a high-level member of an organized crime syndicate, or even an outright war criminal, who lives under a dictatorship and tries to frame themselves as a political prisoner. In a lot of cases, regimes go too far and persecute an entire group of mostly innocent people for the actions of a small percentage of the population, but that results in a situation where the people who are actually guilty can claim persecution in order to seek refuge in countries sympathetic to the plight of all those innocent people turned into scapegoats.

Faith, hope, and love are all beautiful gifts from God, but faith can also be used to convince someone to commit a suicide bombing, hope can be exploited to scam desperate people living in poverty, and love can be taken advantage of by people who have no empathy for anyone. It's a tragic testament to the fallen nature of mankind when even God's greatest blessings can be so easily abused.
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
No honest Catholic should be saying "total immigrant death" aside from memery. It's more, "not our circus" at worst.
The way I reconcile my prejudices against other groups outside my own is that, ultimately, God wants *Religious* unity between His people, not necessarily cultural or ethnic blending/homogeneity. When Paul spoke of there being no Greek or a Jew in the eyes of the Lord, it meant the spiritual potential and love God gives everyone on Earth and the value of the soul. I don't believe that we should turn away people from the faith based on race, but everything beyond and outside the faith is up to the individual.
 
I just want to add something because, unusually, yesterday’s discussion stuck with me, and I have some thoughts I wanted to sort out by typing.

The thought that stayed with me was about love and how Catholics are to be loving. I’m a native English speaker, and I don’t have a second language. I’ve heard that English is one of the worst languages to discuss love because we have a single umbrella word, whereas other languages like Greek have several. I think most English speakers have a very vague and nebulous, wishy-washy, airy-fairy conception of love. Love as people in the West wax lyrical about tends to be the chemical dance between dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin occurring in the body to create a strong bond between lovers and ensure the propagation of the species. As discussed yesterday, love is really an act of the will, to will the good of another. Imagine not just how many Catholics but secular people are exploring the scriptures and their abundant calls to love and how they might struggle with it. Think about how deficient or possibly subhuman they might feel because they aren’t experiencing strong emotions caused by chemicals inside the body. I remember years ago when I was a kid the government launched a national ad campaign to address a mental health crisis sweeping the country. I was at the kitchen table with my ma, da, and brothers eating dinner, and don’t you know there was a small portable television in the corner. They were called portable, but they were actually fairly bulky and heavy, not like the flatscreens today. They were just portable in the sense an adult male could carry one unassisted. Anyway, an ad came on about a brooding teenager walking the streets alone. At the end of the ad a graphic appeared on screen displaying the slogan uttered by the narrator, ‘Look after your mental health.’ I stopped shovelling slop into my slop hole and very aggressively said, ‘How? I’m sick and tired of them telling me to look after my mental health and how important it is but never telling me how.’ I didn’t say this as a brief display of enlightenment but with a habitual, shitty, chip-on-my-shoulder attitude. My dad and my brother looked at me with grins that said, ‘The kid’s got a point.’ Just like mental health, people harp on about love and nearly always forget to explain what it is and how to do it. I think we got this a lot with Pope Francis. As I’m an English speaker, it’s possible that his meaning didn’t translate well for me, but whenever I read anything he said, there was a lot of love this and love that, poor this and poor that. It usually came across to me as very vapid and generic, with nothing that could be grabbed hold of. Imagine a secular person beginning to search for truth and finding him or herself exploring the Christian scriptures where they’re constantly told to love, but all they know of love is from their feelings toward their family and possible romantic interests. They might assume that because they’re not experiencing a chemical reaction in the body, they’re not loving. They’ll especially struggle with the call to love their enemies because strong chemically induced emotions are absent. It’s rarely, if ever, explained to them that love is an act of the will. If you can get yourself to the point where you can put your hand on your heart and say, ‘That chap may be my enemy, but I hope he finds God.’ Then well done, gold star for you because you just loved your enemy.

To circle back to what Pope Francis and much of the clergy were / are harping on about – the poor and caring for them – I have some thoughts on this, and I won’t be appealing to scripture because my thoughts are formed and shaped by personal lived experience and are simply my opinion. I live in a very urban and densely populated environment and have done so most of my life. The most abundant thing I’m surrounded by is social ills. There’s no shortage of alcohol, drug abuse, homelessness and crime where I am. This century, as well as the previous one, there’s a very left-wing conception of the poor and disadvantaged in that they’re a sacred cow immune from critique and correction, disenfranchised but inherently noble. This is not my lived experience. My personal lived experience has shown the poor and disadvantaged to be incredibly predatory, who practice a form of cannibalism in that they constantly steal and inflict violence on each other. The greatest immediate physical threat to poor people is other poor people. We can harp on about the likes of the Bank for International Settlements, BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street all day and night, but the reality is at ground zero the poor and disadvantaged are terrorising each other. In my opinion, based on my personal observations, they don’t need more fake and gay FIAT currency because they squander it when they get it. I’m sure you heard the story about the person who gets a tour of heaven and hell, both are identical, a banquet with chopsticks, but in hell everyone is starving, but in heaven everyone is full because they use the chopsticks to feed each other. I think that’s true, we imagine there’s this vast cosmic distance between heaven and hell, but really there’s not. In my personal experience the greatest problem facing the poor and disadvantaged is they prey on each other instead of praying for each other. What they need first and foremost is the Church’s sacraments for their salvation but also the scriptures as a manual in how to live.

My ma is very devout. She’s a very simplistic faith, and she’s ignorant about much of Catholicism, but what she grasps, she’s fervent in. She goes to daily Mass and prays the Rosary religiously. She even goes to a weekly Protestant Bible study. Now, that’s shaky ground because they often offer interpretations contrary to Catholicism, but she’s just old and wants to be anywhere people are talking about God. There’s a story she tells often. She worked in a hospital, and one day a traveller, indigenous gipsy, was wheeled in on a trolley flanked by his family and friends, essentially his gang. His shirt was ripped open, exposing his bloody stab wounds and the sacramentals adorning his torso. Anyway, unfortunately he died from his wounds, and my ma was very conflicted about an obvious gangster wearing sacramentals (rosary, brown scapular, St Benedict medal), so she went to speak to the chaplain. He explained to her it's quite common and it’s not Catholicism, it’s superstition. Some people use sacramentals as talismans to ward off the consequences of their crimes and lifestyles. My opinion is there are not a billion plus Catholics in the world. I cannot fathom the world being in this dire a state if it were populated by such a significant number of Catholics. I reckon there are several hundred million superstitious people adopting some Catholic garb, and there are maybe a couple hundred million Catholics spread out across the face of the Earth. My understanding is that South America and Africa, but especially South America, have a rich history of entertaining communism and socialist attitudes. When the new Pope was elected recently, I was watching videos to try and get a read on the situation. In one video the YouTuber approached a woman outside a church who appeared to hail from South America. She asked the woman what she hoped for from the new Pope, and in broken English, the woman replied she hoped he continued Francis’ work. The migrant supports the migrant Pope, go figure. Don’t mind all the debates about heresy and damaging the Church. It got me thinking, are people like her actually Catholic, or are they more accurately communists and socialists who’ve adopted a bit of Catholic garb here and there? There’s nothing Catholic in demanding or expecting people in distant lands to do x, y, and z for you. If anything, that’s an empathic rejection of the example Christ and the apostles set, and their example was scientifically repeated by saints, who, if they weren’t born into austerity, made sure to inflict it upon themselves in imitation of Christ and the apostles for millennia. There was no difference in St Francis of Assisi when he was hosted inside a palace or a hut. I remember I was talking to a Venezuelan Catholic online, and I made a silly quip about him being forgiven for jumping the border to the U.S. He responded by saying, ‘Why would I go to Babylon?’ What a striking and enlightened thing to say! Why would a Christian go to Babylon? How would that help in his or her walk with the Lord? I remember another time I was talking to a Mexican, and I made the same stale joke. He said, ‘Why would I go to America? We grow the best grapes here, and it makes wine that tastes like you wouldn’t believe.’ Now, this is probably my ignorance showing, but I’d never put the words ‘Mexico’ and ‘wine’ together. ‘What a good man,’ I said to myself. I don’t know if he’s Catholic because it never came up, but I’ll tell you this, if he’s not, he will be one day because that’s such a Catholic way of thinking.

Catholics love Christ, the apostles, and the saints, but if a Catholic finds his or herself praising the way they lived but then condemns the same conditions they lived in as abhorrent, inhumane, and impoverished for the rest of us, then there’s something wrong there, it’s incongruent. What does it mean to be truly wealthy in this world? How do truly wealthy people live day to day? Well, for one thing, they have complete mastery over their time. They eat the best of food, and by that I don’t mean gourmet. They don’t get their food from the supermarket wrapped in plastic, fed a diet of God only knows what and receiving injections we have no idea about or control over like us. Like their time, they have absolute control over their food because they either husbandry it themselves or pay others to do so, and they know everything about its diet, living conditions, and veterinary schedule, and the same control goes for their vegetables. They’re breathing the best of air because they live rural and not in congested concrete jungles. Now, consider how many of the world’s ‘poor’ can make the exact same boasts. Try going anywhere in the West, especially Europe, where land is at a premium, and try to scavenge materials to construct an abode for yourself without taking out a mortgage and applying for planning permission, and watch how hard the State comes down on you for it. One of the great jokes of this world is how similarly the truly wealthy and truly ‘poor’ live. If you want to live as the devil intends you to live, then prepare for much heartache and to hop through many hoops, but if you want to live how God intends you to live, then you’re in luck, because He came to walk the land and show you how and poured out His grace on a seemingly endless number of saints, showing you how to go about it and just how accessible it really is.
 
My opinion is there are not a billion plus Catholics in the world.
I think Luke agrees with you, not in the Calvinism le predestination way but rather in the "who actually is" sense;
Luke 22 30.webp
Unlike biological sex it might unironically be a spectrum :thinking:
 
Imagine not just how many Catholics but secular people are exploring the scriptures and their abundant calls to love and how they might struggle with it. Think about how deficient or possibly subhuman they might feel because they aren’t experiencing strong emotions caused by chemicals inside the body.
I've noticed this a lot with the Protestants I went to school with in highschool. A lot of the people went to incredibly liberal churches that espoused very vague "love and do good because Jesus said so" dogmas that, ultimately, was just another form of political propaganda that you'd hear anywhere else. Love, in this instance, meant loving migrants, gays/LGBTQIAP+'s, and the supporting the "correct" political causes, because Jesus said to "love your neighbor", "be charitable", and that "Jesus was a refugee, too!". Obviously these are very poor understandings of scripture, and have little in the way of biblical/authoritative president, but that's what they learned. It's no surprise most of these people no longer attend church, because what's the point if all you're hearing is just another lecture on what your politics should be?
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
It's no surprise most of these people no longer attend church, because what's the point of all you're hearing is just another lecture on what your politics should be?
They've replaced their Christian religion with a "secular" one, much like how eastern euros/chinks have a thing for religious Marxism, just another belief system for them. This sort of competition is a good thing for Pope deepdish to choose to focus on because not only is it entirely fertile soil for re-missionizing it's also the greatest threat, more than pisslam even.
 
It says a lot about Roman Catholicism when its subreddit is one of the sanest and most enlightening communities that I've seen on Reddit. In the r/Catholicism subreddit, the users there are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, extremely anti-heresy (like very anti-Anglican), and extremely loyal to the pope, which is consistent with the beliefs of the Catholic Church. EDIT: Admittedly subreddits dedicated to devout Trinitarian denominations are thankfully very social conservative such as r/OrthodoxChristianity and r/TrueChristian (Evangelical Protestant).

Cool stuff on what I've learn from r/Catholicism,
Unironically one of the more enlightening experiences I ever had as a heretic of Roman Catholicism, a.k.a. a Protestant, and from a subreddit no less in a website that is 99% brain rot and bots. Its cool to learn more about other denominations that mine unfortunately doesn't explain well.

Even so with a subreddit that stands against Reddit's ultra-left progressivism to remain true to the principles of the Church. Very loyal and traditional but not too "tradCath" and also willing to call out flaws in the Church. It annoyed the progressive non-Catholics that they made a hate sub called r/Catholic to snark on r/Catholicism.

From what I learned, I'm happy to be a fellow brother of Christ with you folks.


Edits:
  • Used the word "eschewed" in the other Christian subreddits because I thought it means "devoted." I just found out it means "avoid" so I changed it to "are thankfully very social conservative."
 
Ostatnio edytowane:
BY PAPAL DECREE OF I, BISHOP LOCAL FARMER, HEREBY DECLARE ANATHEMA TO ANYONE RESPONDING TO FRENCH DIP, SHOULD FRENCH DIP SPEAK OUT OF LINE AGAIN WE WILL PHOTOSHOP HIS HANDS ON TO MORE AND MORE LUDICROUS PLACES​
To me hes a classic case of a guy who has no redeeming qualities resorting to his skin color to feel a sense of superiority. Being that pale means he doesnt go outside too often.
There is something so unholy about the editing on this thumbnail, why did he make himself look like that lol
It gives off a "CHINA IS GOING TO COLLAPSE IN 30 SECONDS" vibe.
Dude at a restaurant was talking to me about his failed marriage and I was giving my take from the religious POV. Dude said Jesus wasn't real and was invented by Constantine, so I just said Jesus was the most attested to guy in the ancient world and then he started threatening me. "Say Jesus again and I'm gonna beat the fuck out of you." So I just went full autism and started saying Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life until he left. I was all full of adrenaline because I was sure bro was gonna just fuck me up.
Saying Jesus doesnt exist is the one of the most below-average intelligence takes to ever exist.
 
@Romeo, your post is too large that I cannot simply indicate that I reply to you:

/r/catholicism is ran very strictly. You CANNOT post that which contradicts the teachings of the church there. You cannot even post too far off topic there. They have moderators of steel who are worthy of good respect.

Even when I go nuts and try to drunkpost there, they remove it. This corrects me, I feel shame for doing wrong and no sense of wanting to rebel or complain, since I know I'm being corrected by right minded people who do not mean to silence good ideas, but simple idiocy. They are a good team. I do not even know them, but with how well oiled that sub is, I can do nothing but say good things about them.

A lot of us from back in the day migrated there when certain other good catholic forums died. Good men post there, even though reddit is a shitty place in general. God help them.
 
Even so with a subreddit that stands against Reddit's ultra-left progressivism to remain true to the principles of the Church. Very loyal and traditional but not too "tradCath" and also willing to call out flaws in the Church. It annoyed the progressive non-Catholics that they made a hate sub called r/Catholic to snark on r/Catholicism.

From what I learned, I'm happy to be a fellow brother of Christ with you folks.
Thank you for taking this arduous journey into r*ddit.
 
Apparently, the Catholic Church according to the subreddit had done a horrendous job in Latin America with an extremely bad catechesis and bad leadership, which is influenced by liberation theology. As a result, Latin America is now a culturally Catholic society with Catholicism now serving as an identity. With Latin Americans wanting something deeper and energetic, they are inclined to follow Evangelicalism.
I have experienced this first hand, a lot of priests today seem more interested in debating local politics or parroting soft, NGO-tier rhetoric than actually preaching the Gospel or forming the faithful. The Church has been reduced to a cultural decoration or an arm of civil society. That wouldn’t be as bad if the culture itself weren’t decaying, I mean, I don't think I need to tell you just how bad things are down here - You can see it in the massive levels of violence, neo-paganism masquerading as "syncretism" and general social decay.

To give you some examples of why things are so bad as they are:
  • In Argentina, the Peronist regime walked a schizophrenic line: Embracing Catholicism in rhetoric, while empowering secularism and controlling Church institutions from within. Later, under the Kirchners, the government actively promoted anti-clerical policies under the banner of progressivism: abortion, gender ideology, and education reform designed to erase natural law thinking. The Church has been co-opted, sidelined, and "dialogued" into irrelevance by regimes who only respect Catholicism when it plays along with their progressive politics. It’s a slow euthanasia. The Faith is tolerated as long as it’s defanged.
  • Mexico got hit hard by Freemasonic liberalism: Look at the Reform Laws and the Cristero War. Whole generations of clergy were executed or silenced, and the U.S. had no problem backing the persecutors (Calles, especially) because it served their regional interests. Mexico lost some of their most pious men fighting the last crusade for the soul of their country.
  • Brazil, while less overtly persecutorial, has long suffered from a mediocre clerical caste. The Portuguese colonial Church was plagued by simony and nepotism, and even after independence, the clergy often lacked proper theological training or pastoral discipline. This left entire regions spiritually abandoned and it's no wonder this is one of the places where liberation theology took root the hardest.
All the while, evangelical missions have been pumping millions into education “reforms" while liberal NGOs reframe Catholicism as a problem to overcome, not a patrimony to defend. It’s an attack on the church masquerading as humanitarian aid.

In that sense I’m really optimistic about Pope Leo XIV. The man knows Latin America. He’s seen the damage done by clerical cowardice and ideological capture. If he can actually clean house and empower the faithful again (priests and laity both) we might witness the beginning of a local Counter-Reformation. And frankly, it’s long overdue.
 
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