Serious LGBT Discussion

[Unifier of Hispania]

they knew a lesbian and gay persons back in the 80s/90s, but they didnt force it down my grandparent's throat, but now with Zoomers they HAVE to shove it down our throats

I've heard this kind of bullshit since forever (people used to say the exact same thing about Millennials in comparison to those living in the 60s and 70s) and it doesn’t make any sense. How are Zoomers effectively forcing you to be gay? Challenging someone's viewpoints isn't shoving your ideas on them. If you want a society in which no one ever disagrees with you, then you are the authoritarian one.

Don't try to rationalize irrational preferences, just say that you don't like gay people because you find them disgusting.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Challenging someone's viewpoints isn't shoving your ideas on them.

Its not conversion therapy, its electrical pain induced perspective changing.
See, I can rebrand the SAME FUCKING THING with a different term and act like its different too, faggot.

 

[Unifier of Hispania]

Wyświetl załącznik 7175386
Its not conversion therapy, its electrical pain induced perspective changing.
See, I can rebrand the SAME FUCKING THING with a different term and act like its different too, faggot.

You actually can't rebrand. The new name you've chosen is worse than conversion therapy: now the harm done to gay people is left explicit.

I'd be shoving my ideas down someone's throat if I were screaming at them and acting obnoxiously. If I'm just politely countering false claims with evidence, that’s not shoving.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

You actually can't rebrand. The new name you've chosen is worse than conversion therapy: now the harm done to gay people is left explicit.

Fucking woosh.

The whole point is you say "its not shoving down your throats" when he knows more about the situation than YOU (infact he didn't even really go in depth, so you don't even have a basis to correct him) because """challenging someones viewpoint""" sounds a hell of a lot fucking better than the alternative. Thats rebranding, you want him to say what he says with FLUFFIER language.

And likewise, I'm doing a parody version of the same. "Conversion therapy is illegal? PHEW, good thing this isn't conversion therapy huh!!!"

I know its the same shit, YOU know its the same shit.

I'd be shoving my ideas down someone's throat if I were screaming at them and acting obnoxiously. If I'm just politely countering false claims with evidence, that’s not shoving.

Reminder that he didn't go into depth WHAT he meant, perhaps he WAS talking about them screaming and acting obnoxious. This certainly exists, LGBT DOES do this.

So you are basically assuming you know what hes talking about better than him despite him not sharing, and not only that, insisting he labeled this undisclosed idea WRONG. And you have 0 fucking basis for it.

 

[Inco G. Nito]

Normal trans people

Normal??? Every tranny I've ever seen (In real life, not just on the internet) was clearly a fucking insane person. Have you ever actually met a "normal" trans person before? If so, are you lowering the bar of "normal" because they could never meet any regular expectation? Would you trust them around teenaged boys? I don't know where you're getting the idea of "normal" trannies from but they're at least like a 1-in-1,000,000 kind of deal. Need we get into sexual assault statistics and attempted suicide rates for them? Not to mention how severe porn addiction is a prerequisite for transitioning.

 

[DickoTheClown]

Normal??? Every tranny I've ever seen (In real life, not just on the internet) was clearly a fucking insane person. Have you ever actually met a "normal" trans person before? If so, are you lowering the bar of "normal" because they could never meet any regular expectation? Would you trust them around teenaged boys? I don't know where you're getting the idea of "normal" trannies from but they're at least like a 1-in-1,000,000 kind of deal. Need we get into sexual assault statistics and attempted suicide rates for them? Not to mention how severe porn addiction is a prerequisite for transitioning.

Yes, I have. I literally explained it in the post. If I hadn't met enough to know that normal trans people (and even some of the abnormal ones) hate the activists, I wouldn't have made the post.

Quit being a total faggot for like 3 seconds. It'll do you some good.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Yes, I have. I literally explained it in the post. If I hadn't met enough to know that normal trans people (and even some of the abnormal ones) hate the activists, I wouldn't have made the post.

Quit being a total faggot for like 3 seconds. It'll do you some good.

I think your standards for normal are way lower than most. To me even the best behaved trannies you can see a lot of mental illness which is just better compartmentalized and coped with in the "best" ones. Its like a functional alcoholic who works a 9 to 5, pays his taxes, provides for his kids, but ALSO gets shitfaced drunk every day for a 2 hour period. You can say hes functional, but denying the alcoholism is dumb.

 

[DickoTheClown]

I think your standards for normal are way lower than most. To me even the best behaved trannies you can see a lot of mental illness which is just better compartmentalized and coped with in the "best" ones. Its like a functional alcoholic who works a 9 to 5, pays his taxes, provides for his kids, but ALSO gets shitfaced drunk every day for a 2 hour period. You can say hes functional, but denying the alcoholism is dumb.

My standards may indeed be lower by virtue of increased exposure, but at the same time, I treat them like I would anyone else with a disorder or any other kind of flaw (within reasonable limits, obviously): it's a part of them, but not the their whole identity/personality, and as long as they're not fuckheads I can be chill with them. Yes, trans people have some shit to work through. But as long as they don't make being trans their whole identity/personality (or even a significant portion of it), they're otherwise pretty typical. Which leads me to my next point: I think that's the problem with a lot of activists - they form their entire identity and personality around being LGBT, and they assume or even demand that others do the same.

To use your example of the functional alcoholic, his alcoholism clearly doesn't define his life if he's still functional. It's absolutely a part of it, yes, but not all of it. Like, yes, the functional alcoholic obviously has shit to work out, but when they're not shitfaced for 2 hours a day, they're an otherwise well-adjusted person. Now, picture if you will, alcoholism activists whose entire lives revolve around alcoholism and actively flaunt their alcoholism to the world, who demand that all other alcoholics do the same, and that everyone else in the world just accept and embrace it. Kinda fucked up, isn't it? Up until now, the functional alcoholic, who wants to just blend in and live his life (and perhaps even work on his alcoholism in support groups) is now at great risk of total ostracization because any alcoholic is now treated like the nonfunctional alcoholism activists.

I'm not sure if I really worded all that very well, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

My standards may indeed be lower by virtue of increased exposure

This sounds very close to a snide jab at dissenters for "not ever meeting them".Assure you this ain't the case. But this also could be interpreted as you are just more tolerance due to repetition. Its how a lot end up, they know trans / gays / whatever are gross, but over immense amount of time around them its simply desensitized enough to not matter. Essentially thats manufactured acceptance because you feel you have to.

To use your example of the functional alcoholic, his alcoholism clearly doesn't define his life if he's still functional. It's absolutely a part of it, yes, but not all of it.

I don't think anyone implied that a tranny couldn't successfully hold a job or anything BECAUSE they are trans or whatever. Point is nobody would say the alchoholic has no deep, personal flaw to them, which is the argument. And I don't think even most would call them "normal", functional or not, they are STILL an alcoholic

now at great risk of total ostracization because any alcoholic is now treated like the nonfunctional alcoholism activists.

yeah now you are going too far here lol. If you gave me that 2 button to press meme, either make EVERYONE a tranny or EVERYONE an alcoholic to varrying degrees, I'm taking the fucking booze button every single time. Objectively less damaging, fuck, around prohibition drunks were all over and society didn't entirely crumble. So thats where your comparison falls apart, you think alcholism and trannydom are EQUAL problems. They aren't. Many at least accept their spouse is an alcoholic. Their spouse being a tranny is world ending trauma.

 

[DickoTheClown]

This sounds very close to a snide jab at dissenters for "not ever meeting them".Assure you this ain't the case. But this also could be interpreted as you are just more tolerance due to repetition.

Wasn't meant to be snide at all, so I apologize if it came across that way. I assure you I'm speaking in good faith. Just saying that you might be correct about me (tolerance through repetition), but I think there's more to it than that, at least in my case. Doesn't make me better or worse than anyone else.

I don't think anyone implied that a tranny couldn't successfully hold a job or anything BECAUSE they are trans or whatever. Point is nobody would say the alchoholic has no deep, personal flaw to them, which is the argument. And I don't think even most would call them "normal", functional or not, they are STILL an alcoholic

I wasn't acting on the belief that you had implied anything of the sort. I was just using an example you had provided to try to create a parallel. It was shaky, and I probably should have been more clear that I was drawing a parallel between "functional alcoholic" and "normal trans person whose personality doesn't revolve around being trans." But yes, point taken.

As far as the use of the word "normal," if you'll excuse me for getting pedantic, the word "normal" is very context specific. Normal what? A normal trans person is certainly not a normal person, but they are normal in the demographic of "trans people." A normal alcoholic isn't a normal person either, but they're normal in the demographic of "alcoholics" This is what I mean by normal, at least in this context.

yeah now you are going too far here lol. If you gave me that 2 button to press meme, either make EVERYONE a tranny or EVERYONE an alcoholic to varrying degrees, I'm taking the fucking booze button every single time. Objectively less damaging, fuck, around prohibition drunks were all over and society didn't entirely crumble. So thats where your comparison falls apart, you think alcholism and trannydom are EQUAL problems. They aren't. Many at least accept their spouse is an alcoholic. Their spouse being a tranny is world ending trauma.

I don't think they're equal problems at all. On a societal level, I think both are smaller than people make them out to be (excluding the whole weird and retarded DEI/ESG thing that's been tainting shit lately), but you're free to disagree with me on either of those.

Alcoholism can absolutely destroy families, and I've seen it do so. Yes, some can at least accept that their spouse is an alcoholic. I also imagine that a much smaller percentage of people are really willing or able to stick around if their spouse comes out as trans than if they found out their spouse was an alcoholic. If they can, more power to them, I guess.

The problem, and I think we might agree on this, is that when someone doesn't want to be around their alcoholic spouse, that's seen as perfectly acceptable (because it is perfectly acceptable). But because of activism (and personal feelings, tbh), it's viewed as transphobic (and maybe it is, but that's not really my place to say, and it probably differs from person to person) to not want to continue to be married to someone who comes out as trans, even though it's also perfectly acceptable. Like, I'm sure it stings for a trans person when they come out and their spouse immediately wants nothing to do with them. And I'm sure in an ideal world, that wouldn't happen (idealism is retarded because it's literally just false hope for something that will never happen)... But at the end of the day, people can break up or divorce for just about any reason. If one or both people don't want to continue with the relationship, it's cruel to force it to continue or make someone feel bad for wanting to end it.

Kids complicate the issue drastically, and I believe there is a responsibility to the kids at that point. I know I just shit all over idealism, but ideally neither parent would come out as trans after having had children, and I think that's the way it should be, but the real world is messier and I frankly haven't really thought about this enough to say what the best option is or where the line ought to be drawn. I do know it's drawn somewhere well before "intentionally leaving your family to be trans without even talking to them." For example, that Stefoknee cunt who left their wife and kids to live out a weird ageplay fetish life thing with a couple from Fetlife is genuinely fucking nauseating. Seriously fuck that.

 

[Piggle-o]

Yes, I have. I literally explained it in the post. If I hadn't met enough to know that normal trans people (and even some of the abnormal ones) hate the activists, I wouldn't have made the post.

I'll agree with this, but only as far as there being tranners who, much like gays, have more moderate or alternative viewpoints that are at odds with and are silenced by the vocal activists. After some rather edifying conversations outside of the public echo chambers, I can at least say that.

 

[Lidl Drip]

To use your example of the functional alcoholic, his alcoholism clearly doesn't define his life if he's still functional. It's absolutely a part of it, yes, but not all of it. Like, yes, the functional alcoholic obviously has shit to work out, but when they're not shitfaced for 2 hours a day, they're an otherwise well-adjusted person. Now, picture if you will, alcoholism activists whose entire lives revolve around alcoholism and actively flaunt their alcoholism to the world, who demand that all other alcoholics do the same, and that everyone else in the world just accept and embrace it. Kinda fucked up, isn't it? Up until now, the functional alcoholic, who wants to just blend in and live his life (and perhaps even work on his alcoholism in support groups) is now at great risk of total ostracization because any alcoholic is now treated like the nonfunctional alcoholism activists.

The fact that there are no alcoholism activists shows that your comparison is dogshit stupid. Alcoholics also don't need other people to play along with their delusions. A functional alcoholic doesn't impact the people around him much, only his own body. A "functional" troon still intrudes on women's spaces and requires special treatment from everyone around him to play a long with his delusion. It's very easy for a man to say "well they don't bother ME, so I got no issues with them!" when you're not the one who is getting molested in changing rooms and bathrooms. By positioning yourself to be oh so tolerant and accepting you are completely throwing women and girls under the bus and that makes you a shit person.

 

[DickoTheClown]

The fact that there are no alcoholism activists shows that your comparison is dogshit stupid. Alcoholics also don't need other people to play along with their delusions. A functional alcoholic doesn't impact the people around him much, only his own body. A "functional" troon still intrudes on women's spaces and requires special treatment from everyone around him to play a long with his delusion. It's very easy for a man to say "well they don't bother ME, so I got no issues with them!" when you're not the one who is getting molested in changing rooms and bathrooms. By positioning yourself to be oh so tolerant and accepting you are completely throwing women and girls under the bus and that makes you a shit person.

You're putting words in my mouth.

You don't even know my position on the things you're talking about. You've assumed my position based on the words of TRA's (who I have been vocally against in every post) and the demands of weird Trans Rights Activists (TRAs) and weird autogynephilic (AGP) predators like Jonathan Yaniv. Contrary to what you've assumed and accused me of, I actually don't like all the shit that's happened recently with the whole "we demand to be allowed into women's spaces" thing. I don't want my sister to have to share a bathroom with some weird fetishistic freak who puts on lipstick and jacks off to the idea of being a woman.

The entire point of my example of the alcoholic is that alcoholics aren't out and public about their alcoholism. No alcoholic in their right mind would say "Hello world, I'm an alcoholic and I demand you accept me and call me heckin valid." They don't want an activist to come along and tell them that they must do so to secure some kind of rights. And neither do regular trans people (read: people who have been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria by a doctor and who have taken the proper path to treatment, NOT TRA's, not AGPs, not sissy fetishists).

Prior to this weird push that TRA's (and AGP's, and fetishists) are making, most regular trans people just used (and continue to use) unisex bathrooms, if they used public restrooms at all. They didn't participate in men's or women's sports, nor do I believe that trans people should participate in sports, because hormones are literally just doping. I know that regular trans people are perfectly fine using unisex bathrooms and locker rooms, and don't feel some incessant need to be accepted by the general public into women's (or men's) spaces. And in my opinion, that's really how it should be - there aren't enough trans people in the world for them to need to use the men's or the women's restroom or locker rooms.

This next bit isn't even a trans issue at all, but more of a general one - restrooms should be more like they are in Denmark, where it's just a row of unisex stalls with walls that go floor to ceiling, and actual real doors. None of the BS stall walls that we have in the U.S. Row of sinks, row of stalls. Solves every problem at once (shitting shouldn't be a communal experience). But that is an idealistic idea that won't ever happen in the U.S. That would solve everyone's problems with regards to bathrooms.

I have been quite vocal in this thread that TRA's are ruining it for everyone (and just so we're all clear, I mean all of us including regular trans people). Regular trans people want to live their lives without drawing attention to the fact that they are trans, and not be "heckin valid" and out in the open like the TRA's so desperately want them to be. They don't care nearly as much about misgendering, or being allowed to use women's (or men's) restrooms/spaces, or about being publicly validated, as TRAs make it seem. TRAs practically demand that all trans people declare to everyone that they meet, "I'm trans and you must accept me" ("IT'S MA'AM!"). They demand that all trans people be politically active and that they make their lives miserable for the sake of some bullshit cause. As I have said, regular trans people do not want that. TRA's are pushing them into a level of visibility that they do not want, and their lives are worse off now than if TRA's had never spoken at all.

Here's another part of the problem, and this is something that is oft brought up by people I've spoken to: because there is such an air of forced tolerance/acceptance within the trans community, literally anyone (AGPs, sissy fetishists, CWC) is allowed to say "I'm trans" and people within the trans community aren't allowed to say, "No, I don't believe you are," without facing severe ostracism (they can't even tell another trans person "you don't pass" anymore lol - they have to treat everyone as heckin valid). This has been going on for over a decade, which means that there's been a lot of time for the problem to get so much worse. Look at Buck Angel, for example. He's now considered transphobic because he believes that Self-ID is retarded. The whole concept of Self-ID is actually stupid and retarded, but regular trans people who have been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria by a doctor have to put up with it because if they don't, the psychotic cult of trans that has formed will come for their heads. The lunatics have taken over the asylum, and now it's literally everyone's problem.

Being trans has turned from "something you are" into "something you must declare to the world" and this whole weird ideology of forced tolerance and acceptance (even within the trans community), allowing AGPs and fetishists in, and trying to force girls who display a hint of masculinity, and boys who display a hint of femininity, into it as well. The regular trannies are too afraid to say anything about it, but to be honest, I think more of them need to stand up and say "enough with the bullshit." Those who are even semi-active within the community do share some of the blame for not speaking up or sounding the alarm.

Just like any regular person, regular trans people are accountable for their actions (or inaction, in this case, since their silence has allowed the lunatics in).

All I've said is I treat regular trans people like I treat anyone else. I am not, as you put it "oh so tolerant and accepting."

 

[Lidl Drip]

Prior to this weird push that TRA's (and AGP's, and fetishists) are making, most regular trans people just used (and continue to use) unisex bathrooms, if they used public restrooms at all.

Completely wrong and at this point I think you're just flat out lying. Unisex bathrooms are not even available in the majority of places.

Regular trans people want to live their lives without drawing attention to the fact that they are trans, and not be "heckin valid" and out in the open like the TRA's so desperately want them to be. They don't care nearly as much about misgendering, or being allowed to use women's (or men's) restrooms/spaces, or about being publicly validated,

See this is a direct contradiction. If they really didn't use women's restrooms then that would draw attention to the fact that they are trans. Let's say in a fictional world where trannies are able to pass (LOL) if they went into the men's restroom where they belong they would immediately be outed. To live without drawing attention they would have to intrude on women's spaces and this is a PROBLEM. But we also don't live in that fictional reality and they don't pass. Also being gendered incorrectly is the whole point of being trans. They fact you are pretending they don't care about "misgendering" is completely stupid because their entire existence hinges on people playing along and pretending they are the opposite gender. Otherwise a man in a dress would just be a man wearing a dress and everyone would treat him as a man in a dress, there would be nothing "trans" about him.

literally anyone (AGPs, sissy fetishists, CWC) is allowed to say "I'm trans" and people within the trans community aren't allowed to say, "No, I don't believe you are,"

Nobody is trans, they are all just pretending. Hence the gatekeeping is pointless and arbitrary. How do you tell a "trans woman" from a man who is just pretending? You can't.

Being trans has turned from "something you are" into "something you must declare to the world"

Again, nobody is trans. They are just men with a fetish and women with mental illness. They have to declare it to the world because before then people didn't even know troons existed and wouldn't play along. How am I supposed to know some man with greasy long hair and moobs wants to be called "she" unless he declares it? People had to be mass gaslit and threatened with getting cancelled and fired from their jobs for "trans" to even be a thing because otherwise they would have just laughed Dave in his dress out of the room and told him to stop being a pervert. Now thanks to TRA's you have to pretend Dave is actually a hecking wholesome women and call him "she". Absolutely nobody would have done this before.

All I've said is I treat regular trans people like I treat anyone else. I am not, as you put it "oh so tolerant and accepting."

That is literally being tolerant and accepting of them and their delusions. And you are hurting women and girls by playing along with it. Womanhood is something you can not opt in and out of and a man pretending to be a woman, even if he were to pee in the men's restroom (which they don't) is an insult to women and based on sexist regressive stereotypes and misogyny. Woman is not boobs, is not make-up, is not high heels, is not dresses, is not long hair, is not anything other than being an adult human female. Which is why men cosplaying as women by acting out what they think a woman is, is fucking offensive.

 

[California Newt]

They are just men with a fetish and women with mental illness

and a fetish

 

[Hooked on phobics]

and a fetish

I think SOMETIMES it perhaps originates as NOT a fetish, however perhaps inevitably ends up becoming it. Its objectively mental illness, but such mental illnesses end up being often reflected in psychosomatic expressions of fetishes.

Theres probably men who it doesn't immediately start as AGP but rather malformed warped attempt to find "acceptance" through the objectively wrong path . For an example of that, walt hayer. I don't think it started, or perhaps even WAS fetish, as much as deep emotional BS from his horribly abusive grandmother. Perhaps fetish element plays more into men due to their increased libido framing it in such a sense, but I think men CAN end up that way via non fetish reasons, while women can be fetishistic pooners, like audrey hale and her imaginary penis which she desperately wanted to ass fuck a latina girl with.

Though I'm also of the mindset that accuracy of criticism is key to fighting trannydom. Its difficult to say, its cored at deep emotional problems, and such deep emotional problems can very easily slip into or influence fetishes, or even be formed as MAINLY a fetish from the outset, but aren't ALWAYS strictly a fetish at the root elements.

TLDR : Don't necessarily assume, but develop an understanding of it so you can know exactly what got them into such mentally ill shape. Walt hayer, Chris chan, and finster are ALL different trannies, with different mindsets, different causes, and different mental BS.

 

[California Newt]

The pain isn't an unwanted part of the equation. No fag has ever said "man, I love taking it up the arse but I wish it didn't hurt".

Poppers are for career gays wanting to quicken the process of casual sex; they're useful because they allow you to loosen up faster (forgive my imagery). If they were for reducing pain, then you'd be seeing mostly less-experienced sodomyhavers using them, but that's the opposite of what happens.

The thing with homosex is that it doesn't always work, or at least not right away. Sometimes you need to introduce gadgets & substances to make it happen at all.

That's one the major interesting thing about the subject for me. Even straight kids grow up thinking of anal as an "option", even if they don't know how it works—as though it's one of the basic bodily functions.

It's flat out just not an option.

Nobody knows what their body is for. Everyone's Ricky-Bobby in Talladega Knights not knowing what to do with his hands.

People think that prostate stimulation is more of a core bodily function than the ability to sing. From an anthropological perspective, that's insane.

Being set on fire isn't pleasurable because it isn't a means to any end. Think of it like the muscle pains you get from exercising -- it's not something you'd inflict upon yourself for no reason, but when the pain is granted meaning through the act of exercise, it becomes satisfying.

I've never been interested in rectally sodomizing either sex (it always looked like a war crime outside of the cartoons), so it's good to get confirmation that the psychology of it works in the way you're describing.

Over in the gooner thread, a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that it's all about dopamine and not the ritual psychological aspect. If "getting worse" means growing closer to your god (in their case Priapus or Satan), then pain (mainly of conscience, in their case) below the tolerance threshold transmutes into erotic-transformative tension—like in exercise.

I made a similar comparison to exercise in another thread (apologies if I've linked this to you before; I just think it's relevant in connection to the stuff about the gooner thread).

TLDR : Don't necessarily assume, but develop an understanding of it so you can know exactly what got them into such mentally ill shape.

I'm just saying a lot of fujos get into it.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

I'm just saying a lot of fujos get into it.

Idk, I think a lot of pooners its more a deep hatred of femininity, like they think being a woman is being weak, being worthless, being victims of abuse, ect.

Really I think for both types of trannies internalized hatred of sorts of born sex is a common thing. But sure, for porn induced fujos I'd agree.

 

[California Newt]

Idk, I think a lot of pooners its more a deep hatred of femininity, like they think being a woman is being weak, being worthless, being victims of abuse, ect.

Really I think for both types of trannies internalized hatred of sorts of born sex is a common thing. But sure, for porn induced fujos I'd agree.

I probably should've said "or (inclusive) a fetish".

I generally think women have it worse than men in the modern world. I think this because I almost never see them make it to the oases where things aren't evil and crazy. Their lives seem kafkaesque.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

and a fetish

I think SOMETIMES it perhaps originates as NOT a fetish, however perhaps inevitably ends up becoming it. Its objectively mental illness, but such mental illnesses end up being often reflected in psychosomatic expressions of fetishes.

There are male troons who develop gender dysphoria because of trauma or abuse, pooners who are legitimate autoandrophiles, and there are both males and females who troon out because they developed a gender-bending fetish as a result of trauma or abuse.

Studies should be done on the motivations that men and women troon out. We don't have any numbers, it's kind of a silly argument.