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Your trench warfare jihad that every aspect of the PT is an unrecognized masterpiece is a battleground between the darkness (the bottom of Mike Stoklasa's beer can) and light (reflecting off George Lucas' glasses)
Your trench warfare jihad that every aspect of the PT is an unrecognized masterpiece is a battleground between the darkness (the bottom of Mike Stoklasa's beer can) and light (reflecting off George Lucas' glasses)
That's the problem with you PT haters; going up against strawmen than the actual thing.
No, I don't think the PT is that peerless; there's obviously room for improvement, but you can say that even about most great films.
If I was going to write Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, I'd at least let him have a nice time with his mom first. Have him go to Tatooine, meet his mother in the Lars homestead, have her hail him as a hero and her pride and joy. Then have her die in a Tusken Raider attack. That way, it'd hurt Anakin even more, and the audience would understand why he went full Reynes of Castamere on the Sand People.
That's the problem with you PT haters; going up against strawmen than the actual thing.
No, I don't think the PT is that peerless; there's obviously room for improvement, but you can say that even about most great films.
If I was going to write Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, I'd at least let him have a nice time with his mom first. Have him go to Tatooine, meet his mother in the Lars homestead, have her hail him as a hero and her pride and joy. Then have her die in a Tusken Raider attack. That way, it'd hurt Anakin even more, and the audience would understand why he went full Reynes of Castamere on the Sand People.
I've said so many times that I think TPM is a good movie, Sith is at least on the line between good and great, and Clones has a lot of good stuff in it despite being more bad than good
I've said so many times that I think TPM is a good movie, Sith is at least on the line between good and great, and Clones has a lot of good stuff in it despite being more bad than good
And? Hell, I pretty much think the PT are just the PG-friendly equivalent of the Bayformers movies. Critically panned, but the normies got their fun out of it, so they did well in the box office.
Also, talking about Mike Stoklasa and RLM in general, to them, the PT are abominations in film-making that make Disney Star Wars look decent.
I've said so many times that I think TPM is a good movie, Sith is at least on the line between good and great, and Clones has a lot of good stuff in it despite being more bad than good
And I'll repeat my take:
The Prequels are good movies that got fucked up in their execution. AotC is the most clear example of this - the story/story beats are great, but turning those broadstrokes into fine detail are where the problems developed.
The funny thing is, the PT-haters are obsessing over what is just a Saturday Morning cartoon in film format. Four out of six SW movies are just like that, with the only exceptions being Revenge of the Sith and Empire Strikes Back where the bad guys are taken more seriously. But at the end of the day, they're attacking the Prequels because they want to relive the joy they felt seeing the OT for the first time, but they can't.
The PT-haters see the PT as adults and see all the flaws, and they don't realize that the OT had similar flaws as well, such as the dialogue, (Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness both hated it) dropped plotlines, (whatever happened to Vader's offer to Luke on toppling the Emperor?) to them rushing things to the finish line. (LOL where did the massive Imperial Fleet go? What kind of government did our heroes make? Did they rebuild the Republic, or just seat Leia on Palpatine's throne?) The fact that the SWEU had to go on overdrive patching those plot holes and answering people's questions about the films pretty much shows how the extended material had to make up for the shortcomings of the films.
If you look at the Boomers who saw Star Wars as adults when it first came out, and compare them to Gen Z adults who are seeing Star Wars now, for the first time, with no knowledge of the franchise, their reactions are similar: they like both the OT and the PT. Those who aren't that into them just saw them as technological wonders with a basic story of good vs. evil. Those who are into them love the world-building and lore of both trilogies, seeing them as one indivisible whole. Unlike Gen X, they didn't grow to hate the Prequels, but put the OT on a pedestal.
The Millennials had it the other way around; they saw both trilogies as kids, with the release of the Special Editions in the 90s, and the Prequels in the late 90s/early 2000s. So they had nostalgia for both trilogies, and they loved both of them. Typically, they were the defense force for the Prequels that were belittled by Gen X whose answer to their Prequel love is that they were blinded by nostalgia. Not realizing that the same argument could easily be used against them.
The problem is, the Gen Z/Boomer experience proves the PT haters wrong; here you have two crowds, separated by 50 years, who saw Star Wars for the first time as adults, and their judgement of the Prequel and Original Trilogies is that they're both the same. Kids' cartoons with a budget and great special effects, in film format, with live actors. They didn't see much difference between the two outside of the PT having better CGI, and at the end of the day, many Boomers and Gen Z-ers accepted both trilogies as the classical part of the franchise.
The haters of the Prequels are typically Gen X, and sometimes, you may also have some older Millennials, and they're isolated, trapped between the Boomers who see both trilogies as kiddie cartoons in live action and see no difference between the OT and the PT, and the younger Millennials and Gen Z-ers who love both the OT and the PT. And of course, the latter are passing on their views to Gen Alpha, who are likewise having the same experience that the younger Millennials had, although most of them are more into Baby Yoda or the cartoons.
Of course, this just means the PT-haters got meaner and started laying on hate on people who like the Prequels or say they're better than the Sequels, but that just makes people hate them more. Big shock, when you react to people with hatred due to their opinions, they tend to hate you right back. Just like videos dunking on feminists and SJWs became a thing in the past, dunking on Prequel-haters has become its own genre of Youtube video.
As for the Sequels, the fact that they had no narrative structure, no morals or sagas to tell, and the fact that they're jumping all over the place in terms of tone pretty much guaranteed that they'd not even be hated, but forgotten, with time. Note how the Sequels right now aren't even being hated by PT fans and the like; it's usually the politically active instead who hate them for the MaRey Sue feminist thing. Your typical PT or OT fan feels nothing for them. Outside of some PT-haters who think TFA was a step in the right direction.
Something worse is happening to the Sequels-they're just being forgotten. The one group that might have given a shit about them are the Reylos, the people who shipped Kylo Ren with Rey, since the first two Sequel movies are, in essence, a violent foreplay between the two. But the third Sequel killing off Kylo Ren broke the Reylos' hearts. So they'd rather not revisit the site of their heartbreak, and they too would rather forget the Sequels ever existed. So unlike the PT which had its renaissance, the ST would rather be forgotten, especially since they really disappointed everyone involved.
But yes, the problem with the PT-haters isn't so much their obsessive hate against Lucas, it's just that they really wanted to revisit their childhood when they first saw the SW movies, and that's just impossible. I mean, sometimes even I want to go back to my youth when it was me being awed by giant robots blasting each other with Kame-hame-ha style energy weapons. But even I have to realize that I have to grow up and trying to recreate that first-time wonder is impossible. I rewatch the giant robot cartoons of my youth, and I see the flaws in pacing, character motivations, even the omni-present hand of toy companies using them as advertisements, but I still enjoy them for what they were and the fun I had with them. I learn to accept them, flaws and all.
And I'll repeat my take:
The Prequels are good movies that got fucked up in their execution. AotC is the most clear example of this - the story/story beats are great, but turning those broadstrokes into fine detail are where the problems developed.
I say, they could've worked better as TV shows. I mean, give us a whole season to explain WHY the Trade Federation would crash out over their trade routes getting taxed. A lore blurb in the intro is fine, but it would work better if we see how and why shit happened. Especially since after the OT, a lot of the Star Wars faithful had to read up on books to see what the fuck happened after the films. A TV show leading up to the PT release should've been done.
Something worse is happening to the Sequels-they're just being forgotten. The one group that might have given a shit about them are the Reylos, the people who shipped Kylo Ren with Rey, since the first two Sequel movies are, in essence, a violent foreplay between the two. But the third Sequel killing off Kylo Ren broke the Reylos' hearts. So they'd rather not revisit the site of their heartbreak, and they too would rather forget the Sequels ever existed. So unlike the PT which had its renaissance, the ST would rather be forgotten, especially since they really disappointed everyone involved.
The thing is that with many stories you can kinda understand many things about them better if you know stuff about their authors or break down the intent behind them.
A whacky example for that I can mention since many people talk about the TV show adaption at the current time is The Boys comic by Garth Ennis. This dude said that he read war comics as a kid, so when he finally came accross superhero comics as a teenager he thought they were cringe and then they are everywhere in america. So he got fed up and just wrote a comic where nearly all superheroes are embarasing idiots and in the end try to take over the white house only to get cartoonishly minced by the military like retards because he thinks they are cooler. Goofy example but it illustrates the point.
Now with George's movies you can clearly tell from the way they are written he puts a lot of stuff inside them that he cares about like his Samurai flicks and so on. Even if lots of stuff even in the OT was stolen from Dune he really tried to do something of his own with it, probably without even thinking that much about it because he just thought that you do movies in that way. That is also true for the PT that takes cues from the end of the roman republic and the rise of Hitler.
Now the thing with the ST is that you can also pretty clearly tell what the thought process behind the movies was and it was a very stupid one. Like even TFA just shamelessly recycled the OT, even if doesn't makes sense that the government calls itself the Resistance and has a fake Yavin base while the temu empire has a knockoff death star again. (Funny that we might never know if anyone involved even knew who Galen Marek is despite his name getting used.) And it is also pretty clear that JJ doesn't even bothers explaining what even happened after the OT. In the end the new Rey movie already sucks on a purely conceptual level, because Luke's new jedi order that was supposed to be a plot point in the sequels (even pretty late into the planning phase going from the concept art I posted previosly) just got killed offscreen so you can rehash the OT and then Rey can make her own second new jedi order afterwards but nobody gives a shit about it at this point.
Like even normal movie goers who don't think much about stuff like that can't engage much with a movie that is purely artificial to such a degree. And that shows in the growing lack of interest.
The media smells the rot emanating from Lucasfilm so they aren't defending them anymore. All they have left are shills on youtube that no one is watching.
The more accurate thing to say is that both Dune and Star Wars stole a lot from the Bible and other literary sources. Whenever someone gives me a checklist of things Star Wars stole from Dune, I see things from the Bible, real world history, and other things from other books.
Like even TFA just shamelessly recycled the OT, even if doesn't makes sense that the government calls itself the Resistance and has a fake Yavin base while the temu empire has a knockoff death star again.
The thing is that with many stories you can kinda understand many things about them better if you know stuff about their authors or break down the intent behind them.
All the PT haters whined that the PT should be more like the OT, so Disney obliged them and made TFA an ANH clone, even though that devalued ANH because none of the old SW flicks were like each other. Each movie is its own unique beast.
Ironically enough, a lot of PT haters who claim to love the OT didn't really care much when JJ made the OT into the narrative equivalent of Naruto anime filler. You'd think OT fans would be furious at that. I sure as hell was, because the OT is THE founding work for all of Star Wars. Part of what made Jedi Academy great, aside from the gameplay and the sandbox, was that it was a logical progression from ROTJ and it built upon what the OT laid with the story. The Jedi are back for good, the Empire is a broken shadow of its former self, and now your Jedi OC learns under Luke and his friends.
The Jedi fans checked out of the room the moment the Jedi were unceremoniously rendered extinct again offscreen and Luke started saying it's time for the Jedi to end. The fact that they devoted a whole show to Mandalorians but not the Jedi, and the fact that Ahsoka is specifically self-identified as not a Jedi since Rebels, means the Jedi fans have no one to hang on to, aside of one scene of Luke bisecting Dark Troopers.
A whacky example for that I can mention since many people talk about the TV show adaption at the current time is The Boys comic by Garth Ennis. This dude said that he read war comics as a kid, so when he finally came accross superhero comics as a teenager he thought they were cringe and then they are everywhere in america. So he got fed up and just wrote a comic where nearly all superheroes are embarasing idiots and in the end try to take over the white house only to get cartoonishly minced by the military like retards because he thinks they are cooler. Goofy example but it illustrates the point.
It's funny, because most of the heroes in that comic are embarrassing frauds or degenerates. And they're way weaker than supes in other comics, since the latter could easily wipe out military squads like it's nobody's business, but in the Boys comic, they might as well be target practice for your average grunt.
The media smells the rot emanating from Lucasfilm so they aren't defending them anymore. All they have left are shills on youtube that no one is watching.
The media and the public are just tired of Disney at this point. They're done defending the latter every time they fuck up. So now, they're just being apathetic to it. Not hating the Mando movie, just not giving a fuck.
AotC is the most clear example of this - the story/story beats are great, but turning those broadstrokes into fine detail are where the problems developed.
Nah, I don't think anything short of scrapping the plot line and starting over could make up for the sheer amount of BS coincidences and both the heroes and villains acting like total morons in that movie. It's fun enough but both it and Revenge of the Sith have massive issues due to trying to condense a massive amount of crucial plot into 2 and a half hour films. Funnily enough despite being the most boring of the three, The Phantom Menace probably has the most logically consistent plot in the prequel trilogy.
The more accurate thing to say is that both Dune and Star Wars stole a lot from the Bible and other literary sources. Whenever someone gives me a checklist of things Star Wars stole from Dune, I see things from the Bible, real world history, and other things from other books.
Ehhh that's really getting into nitpicking. By that account everything stole from everything since even the Bible could be considered to have stolen from earlier sources. I'm pretty sure Lucas wasn't thinking of the Bible when coming up a desert planet full of Arab-coded native warriors raiding the few stray outposts of Imperial civilization. Or thinking of Jesus healing the cripples when coming up with the Force.
Well anything above 55% drop is bad but 69% is dead in the water level drop. This is becoming the standard for most major Disney flops. Rat with all this debt is likely sweating bullets with the only saving pillars are Theme Parks and Cruises, for now.
I don't envy the next Disney CEO after Iger because holy shit the mess.
I still want to know why not one single Jedi was worried about trusting an army of clones when they have no idea who is paying for them and what they are programmed to do.
It's not as bad as "Somehow Palpatine Returned" but it is up there so far as stupid plot twists go.
Lucas should have stuck with his original idea for the Clone Wars where people were cloning Jedi and using the clones to frame the Jedi for crimes.
Ehhh that's really getting into nitpicking. By that account everything stole from everything since even the Bible could be considered to have stolen from earlier sources. I'm pretty sure Lucas wasn't thinking of the Bible when coming up a desert planet full of Arab-coded native warriors raiding the few stray outposts of Imperial civilization. Or thinking of Jesus healing the cripples when coming up with the Force.
Actually, he probably was. Lucas was at least semi-religious, and his other movies literally made nods to the Bible with the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail.
Also, Middle Eastern Jews were doing raids against the Romans long before the Muslims showed up. Around the time the New Testament was written, even.
He probably didn't know shit about Dune, but knew enough of Biblical and religious history. He even references the Fourth Crusade during the third Indy film.
Nah, I don't think anything short of scrapping the plot line and starting over could make up for the sheer amount of BS coincidences and both the heroes and villains acting like total morons in that movie. It's fun enough but both it and Revenge of the Sith have massive issues due to trying to condense a massive amount of crucial plot into 2 and a half hour films. Funnily enough despite being the most boring of the three, The Phantom Menace probably has the most logically consistent plot in the prequel trilogy.
Not really. I mean, BS coincidences can easily be explained as the Will of the Force, especially since Kenobi says there is no such thing as luck in ANH.
I still want to know why not one single Jedi was worried about trusting an army of clones when they have no idea who is paying for them and what they are programmed to do.
Who Yoda and Mace confirm was dead when the order was made, so it wasn't him and even if it was who was paying for it. Whoever it really was either was paying for it themselves and didn't want anyone to know, or they were a middleman for someone who was pulling something. The Jedi are so stupid I bet they keep buying the same bridge in Brooklyn every few weeks.
