Is national birth rate decline inevitable in an industrialized society?

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Oh I'm talking about the medical costs of pregnancy and birth are subsidized for the poor. It's like 8-10 grand per kid if you're middle class with insurance and 30 grand without, but covered with medicaid

LOL if I get a wife I'm just going to send her into the woods and if she doesn't come back in a day go looking.

 

[MadStan]

The subject is already covered by studies

 

[SIMIΔN]

The demographic collapse can, in large parts, be explained by the incredible number of dumb women who amazingly believe that they could, and should, score with chad, despite being slovenly slags who's a 5/10 on a good day.

They can score with chads, but not make him stay.
Afterwards, 5/10 or even 7/10 men look relatively unattractive.

 

[Odd Opossum]

Once we'll get artificial wombs, women will beg to be birthing machines.

You're insane.

Yes, that's why like 40% of men aged 18 - 30 are virgins. Totally healthy.

It's not healthy, but people overestimate just how much societal damage those losers will cause. They will face the same two choices every loser deals with: suck it up and get a grip or die from despair-induced suicide. There is no collapse coming to save them from their virginity.

 

[God of Nothing]

It's not healthy, but people overestimate just how much societal damage those losers will cause.

because everyone knows polygamous societies with a growing foreign population are the most stable ones

 

[Odd Opossum]

polygamous societies

Western countries are not polygamous, no matter what psuedo-science you're consuming says.

with a growing foreign population

That's true, but has nothing to do with my original point about shut-in virgins being shut-in virgins somehow having some massive effect on the quality of life of a country.

 

[God of Nothing]

Western countries are not polygamous, no matter what psuedo-science you're consuming says.

Ah, yes. A fifty percent divorce rate is a sign western societies are monogamous.

That's true, but has nothing to do with my original point about shut-in virgins being shut-in virgins somehow having some massive effect on the quality of life of a country.

If you can't put together how a sizable and growing group of the male population isn't invested in a society that is gradually being invaded by foreigners adds to its decline, you are not intelligent enough to have this conversation.

 

[geckogoy]

Its literally jewish propoganda promoting the absolute worst possible levels of selfishness and unfulfilling lifestyle

Its not economic, its not people having bad past experiences, its not even women having rights although that was also a jewish invention and a bad idea, its literally just the act of being propagandized from youth.

They say:

• it will be nothing but an unpleasant burden
• it will be really expensive (people with actual real life experience have already pointed out this isn't particularly true)
• it will hold back your career
• they will be miserable anyways so why inflict that on them

This is literally just bullshit and is only convincing to inexperienced morons (hence why it is so devastatingly effective on young people)

 

[Odd Opossum]

Ah, yes. A fifty percent divorce rate is a sign western societies are monogamous.

Yeah, it does, it just means they don't work out sometimes, not that women all want to be part of some harem.

If you can't put together how a sizable and growing group of the male population isn't invested in a society that is gradually being invaded by foreigners adds to its decline, you are not intelligent enough to have this conversation.

I explicitly said it added to the decline, just not the part about NEET's causing the decline. There's plenty of dudes who aren't quitters out there trying to make a good life for themselves while the rest choose to rot in their rooms.

 

[Kiwisee]

Birth rates mean jack shit when you’re not also accounting for the youth mortality rate at the same time.

Just because a country has a high birth rate per capita, it doesn’t mean all those babies survive into adulthood. A lot of countries with the highest populations at the moment have an unequal gender ratio due to high rates of infanticide onto baby girls.

In India, for example, men greatly outnumber women simply due to sons being preferred over daughters. As a result, single women are far harder for them to come by (which is why many of them engage in unsavory behaviors towards foreign women). Their country is a shithole now, but the demographic collapse is going to hit them a lot harder than it will hit China or the west in the coming decades.

Then you have several third world countries in warmer climates where it isn’t uncommon for kids to die from tropical diseases.

Several western countries used to have higher birth rates during a time when it wasn’t uncommon for kids to die before 10 from the flu, small pox or polio. Now that most of those diseases aren’t much of a threat anymore, there’s little incentive for parents to have back up children in case their oldest just falls over dead one day.

 

[Ibanez RG 350EX]

It's not healthy, but people overestimate just how much societal damage those losers will cause. They will face the same two choices every loser deals with: suck it up and get a grip or die from despair-induced suicide.

It's impossible to have nearly half your male population with no stake in their communities and on the brink of literal despair-induced suicide without it having massive negative consequences for the rest of society. And it's insane that you would think otherwise.

This thread is fucking weird. You've got a contingent that thinks you can force all women into effective reproductive slavery and it'll all be fine and a contingent that thinks you can turn half your male population into shut-ins and it'll all be fine. It won't all be fine.

 

[Thiletonomics]

In India, for example, men greatly outnumber women simply due to sons being preferred over daughters. As a result, single women are far harder for them to come by (which is why many of them engage in unsavory behaviors towards foreign women). Their country is a shithole now, but the demographic collapse is going to hit them a lot harder than it will hit China or the west in the coming decades.

Doesn't China have this exact same demographic issue, due to daughters being aborted in mass back when the One Child Policy was a thing? And at least Chinese men haven't reached the inappropriate levels of behavior to women yet, I think. The lack of births in China as a result of the One Child Policy is also making the country an aging one.

 

[Sneed S. McSneedensen]

Only due to women's suffrage. If women were all stay at home, then birth rates would be fine.

 

[geckogoy]

Oh also, the US is less industrialized than at pretty much any point in the 20th century, and yet it continues to decline

 

[Sneed S. McSneedensen]

@teriyakiburns No, you're the dumb one here.

 

[grimacefetishist]

Men and women have less kids because of the elephant in the room: there's three genders, rapist, whore, and married.

Kids get sexually harassed their whole life, dismissed, attacked, because they'll eventually have sex some day, statistically speaking.

This technically happens more often to woman, but fleeing into celibacy is societally most attainable by men. They even have their own country for it. It's also more often forced on men (I think) with things like isolated jobs that it's considered immoral to hire women into, for better or for worse not being the point. Also, the military and the prison industrial complex.

IMO it's better that people who are too depressed to have kids aren't having them. The 20th century fucked up a lot of families, sent people into a fucking frenzy, and hopefully this lifestyle freedom leads to a generation with less of a family medical history.

 

[SIMIΔN]

Its literally jewish propoganda promoting the absolute worst possible levels of selfishness and unfulfilling lifestyle

How much influence do ((they)) have in Greece or Korea? Both places have lower birthrates than Americans and far far lower than Evangelicals (and their simping for Jews)

Doesn't China have this exact same demographic issue, due to daughters being aborted in mass back when the One Child Policy was a thing? And at least Chinese men haven't reached the inappropriate levels of behavior to women yet, I think. The lack of births in China as a result of the One Child Policy is also making the country an aging one.

Not as bad as people might think. Chinese parents tended to pass excess daughters to their extended family.
The real killer for Chinese men's prospects is the population pyramid, men tend to date younger, but with each generation smaller than the last, it's a lot of men competing for a dwindling amount of women.
Mistresses too, a rich or powerful man can take multiple woman out of circulatino.

Only due to women's suffrage. If women were all stay at home, then birth rates would be fine.

It would help, but it is far from the only factor, Japan is far from feminist and the high cost of raising a child has collapsed their birthrate.

 

[geckogoy]

How much influence do ((they)) have in Greece or Korea? Both places have lower birthrates than Americans and far far lower than Evangelicals (and their simping for Jews)

• Greece and korea literally have pop stars and feminist movements, there is plenty of cultural contamination
• Greece just legalized same sex marriage despite being an explicitly orthodox state
• Regarding evangelicals, the propaganda is worked into various media products, not something that infects you for unknown reasons due to being positive about jews (they are pretty middle of the road compared to other christians in terms of TFR in any given year anyhow)

 

[Sweetpeaa]

this is not an industrialism problem.
this is a feminism problem.

if you allow childlessness to be a viable lifestyle choice for women, enough of them will make that choice to set your society on the path of decline, towards extinction.
if you want your society to survive, the only way to do it is to not allow women to make that choice at all.

Why do you think the U.S is going for national abortion ban? "Christian's"? Nah.

Birth is going to be mandatory in several countries soon. Probably China first with the threat they made to inseminate women if birth rates don't go up. The United States will likely ban abortion but they won't be able to implement mandatory birth so easily.

 

[Kung Pow]

Kids aren't expensive, unless you want to minmax your kid that it looks like to be the case in the middle class of first and second world countries.
It is more of a shift in mindset than anything else, really.